Inside Mac Games Forum
M4 Macs - Printable Version

+- Inside Mac Games Forum (https://www.insidemacgames.com/forum)
+-- Forum: General (https://www.insidemacgames.com/forum/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: Mac Hardware (https://www.insidemacgames.com/forum/forum-23.html)
+--- Thread: M4 Macs (/thread-32698.html)

Pages: 1 2

M4 Macs - Matt Diamond - 10-31-2024

As I'm sure everyone here knows, This week Apple announced M4 Mac Mini, M4 iMac, and M4 MacBook Pro's. So virtually all of the Mac lineup is on M4 now. Looking forward to seeing some benchmarks. (Is there a go-to site for Mac benchmarking? I miss BareFeats..) 

The new Mini is really small, a goofy-looking little thing, pretty powerful. I tried to talk myself into getting the Pro version, but was unsuccessful. So I'm still waiting for an M4 Mac Studio (I'm upgrading from an Intel Mini w/eGPU). The Studio is probably more horsepower than I really need, but I know myself and the first time I ran a flight simulator or bad port that struggles, I'll wish I'd waited.



The minimum memory on all Macs is now 16GB. Some would say that's overdue. I wonder if its also an admission that the integrated AI features are going to be a memory hog. Or maybe they just got tired of trying to convince people that Macs ran better on 8GB than Windows does.

RE: M4 Macs - Thain Esh Kelch - 10-31-2024

Only 3 of 6 macs are M4. Rest is M3 or M2. That is very far from “virtually all”, especially since the MBA is their second best selling model.

RE: M4 Macs - Matt Diamond - 11-01-2024

(10-31-2024, 04:29 PM)Thain Esh Kelch Wrote: Only 3 of 6 macs are M4. Rest is M3 or M2. That is very far from “virtually all”, especially since the MBA is their second best selling model.

MacBook Air, that's a fair point.

I did acknowledge Studio, and the Mac Pro is extremely niche (unfortunately).

RE: M4 Macs - Matt Diamond - 11-01-2024

Geekbench benchmark apparently shows M4 Pro scoring slightly better than M2 Ultra:

https://www.macrumors.com/2024/10/31/m4-pro-chip-benchmark-results/
Quote:
  • Mac mini with M4 Pro (14-core CPU): 22,094 multi-core score (average of 11 results)
  • Mac Studio with M2 Ultra (24-core CPU): 21,351 (average of more than 600 results)

If anyone sees an actual Mac game benchmark let me know. Though they always use Rise of the Tomb Raider, for lack of anything better. Hopefully the Cyberpunk port is good enough to use going forward.

RE: M4 Macs - ozzy - 11-01-2024

MacRumors also highlighted the Metal Geekbench results showing that the M4 Pro is 40% faster than the M3 Pro, basically equal to M1 Max Metal scores, and almost double M1 Pro Metal scores. And the M4 Max is 23% faster than the M3 Max but 14% slower than the M2 Ultra Metal benchmark. I remember there being a lot of talk about the M3 Pro being "neutered" (for lack of a better word) graphically compared to M3 Max and previous M1/M2 Pro's, so these results suggest perhaps the M4 Pro is back to in line with how M1/M2 Pro's were in terms of relative performance in the M4, Mr Pro, and M4 Max hierarchy.

RE: M4 Macs - Thain Esh Kelch - 11-01-2024

The M4 is an insane bump up. Looking forward to proper real life benchmarks, to see how it handles everything. And wether I can go with a base, or need a Pro for 5k @ 120 hz.

RE: M4 Macs - nef601 - 11-02-2024

I'll be pulling the trigger on an M4 Pro mini when I finish the project I'm currently working on.

I've been saving my BG3 purchase for a system I can actually play it on (my base M1 mini isn't cutting it).

update: I've ordered a 2TB/48GB M4 Pro mini. Delivery in 3 weeks apparently. I almost forgot to use my edu discount - £400, which isn't bad. All in, it's a little more than I usually pay for a computer, but as I'm easing into retirement now I want a system that'll give me a good 5-10 years use. 

(Also the possibility of import tariffs being applied next year because of YOU KNOW WHO helped me to decide to order sooner rather than later).

RE: M4 Macs - Atticus - 11-14-2024

(11-02-2024, 09:17 AM)nef601 Wrote: I'll be pulling the trigger on an M4 Pro mini when I finish the project I'm currently working on.

I've been saving my BG3 purchase for a system I can actually play it on (my base M1 mini isn't cutting it).

update: I've ordered a 2TB/48GB M4 Pro mini. Delivery in 3 weeks apparently. I almost forgot to use my edu discount - £400, which isn't bad. All in, it's a little more than I usually pay for a computer, but as I'm easing into retirement now I want a system that'll give me a good 5-10 years use. 

(Also the possibility of import tariffs being applied next year because of YOU KNOW WHO helped me to decide to order sooner rather than later).

Got my non-Pro M4 Mini up and running yesterday. It is a great little machine and QUICK, even for basic tasks. 

So.....I guess that is exciting for....no one.

Good night!

RE: M4 Macs - Thain Esh Kelch - 11-14-2024

I am joining the club very soon, as my 2011 iMac died today.
[Image: DeadKakapo.jpg?rlkey=uvn92mbxn8xuop8bj8cjfsi2a&raw=1]

I am just trying to figure out if I will go for the base with 1TB SSD, or if I should up to the Pro purely for gaming. If I go for the former, it will be because I can just use Geforce Now for the high end stuff, and the Pro won't be top end anyway. Then I will likely upgrade again when the M8 or M10 or whatever arrives, where the GPU will be 3x as fast. It will save me quite some money.

I guess I have to see a few YouTube videos on how it runs things in general. It needs to be good enough for Civilization VII with its 27 expansions, and also most other current AAA stuff.

RE: M4 Macs - Thain Esh Kelch - 11-15-2024

So I spend some time looking at the few videos available on Youtube, that focuses on gaming on the base Mini, and the Pro Mini. I am now leaning towards the Pro, for two reasons; 1. the base is just not really cutting it with Baldurs Gate 3, which I know I will be gaming at some point, and I feel it is a good baseline for what I want to achieve with this one. And 2., my iMac lasted me 13 years, so I am hoping at getting at least half that out of this one too. So it would be a good investment to upgrade I think.

I just find it really annoying that, again, I am upgrading just to get a beefier GPU. In a perfect world I would wait and see what the M4 Studio would offer, but I really want a replacement for my iMac.

RE: M4 Macs - Matt Diamond - 11-15-2024

(11-15-2024, 05:25 AM)Thain Esh Kelch Wrote: I just find it really annoying that, again, I am upgrading just to get a beefier GPU. In a perfect world I would wait and see what the M4 Studio would offer, but I really want a replacement for my iMac.

That is annoying. I'm in a similar boat, decision-wise, but since my 2018 Mini still works I can wait.

Can you get a cheap Intel Mac to hold you over? Rough prices on eBay:

2013-14 Minis (<$200)
2013 trash can Mac Pro ($300-$500)
You'd need a machine that supports the the same screen you'll eventually use with the M4 Mini/Studio. Or get another 2011 iMac ($350+, shipping)

It's a hassle and you'll end up with an extra (saleable) machine so it really depends on how badly you want the Studio. But haven't you secretly always wanted to add the trash-can Mac Pro to your lifetime Mac list? :-)

RE: M4 Macs - Thain Esh Kelch - 11-15-2024

(11-15-2024, 08:11 AM)Matt Diamond Wrote:
(11-15-2024, 05:25 AM)Thain Esh Kelch Wrote: I just find it really annoying that, again, I am upgrading just to get a beefier GPU. In a perfect world I would wait and see what the M4 Studio would offer, but I really want a replacement for my iMac.

Can you get a cheap Intel Mac to hold you over? Rough prices on eBay:

I actually already have that. My 2011 Mac mini is being used solely as a Plex server, so I will just be using that instead, together with the 24" 1440p display I had running as a second display on my iMac. Not fast, but it works! But I am just itching to upgrade now.. And realistically I will go for the Mac mini anyway, since the Studio is a major jump in price, and then I might as well upgrade now. Smile 

Just waiting for Black Friday, to see if Apple pitches in with a voucher for the App Store or something neat (Gone are the days you got a free iPod with a new Mac). Getting the 1TB SSD upgrade, but will likely skip on the GPU upgrade. Maybe. Maybe not. Likely maybe.

RE: M4 Macs - Matt Diamond - 11-16-2024

I think most people would say get the GPU upgrade, especially if you game. You can add an external SSD later (though I find the choices of enclosures and drives overwhelming.)

I am not certain how much space to get myself- I'm a bit squeezed on my current 500 Gb, but I just now remembered I've got an old Bootcamp partition that I haven't used in a couple years. So I may have just gotten 100 GB back.

RE: M4 Macs - Thain Esh Kelch - 11-17-2024

My iTunes library alone is 400GB, and I don't want to juggle it around on an external drive as I use it daily. And if this lasts for years, I don't want to regret it, so I'm going for the 1TB SSD.

But that GPU upgrade, hmmm. The Pro is a 60% upgrade over the base when it comes to GPU cores, but the GPU upgrade is only 25% on top of that.

RE: M4 Macs - Tetsuya - 11-19-2024

I just couldnt justify Apples storage prices, when on a Mini (stationary), a 30$ USB-C NVMe enclosure and the same spend would get me 4TB (or more!) of storage. A 6” USB-C extension and a Command Strip and its as permanent as it needs to be.

Edit - 8TB, actually… for 200$ less.

RE: M4 Macs - Matt Diamond - 11-19-2024

From what I'm reading, Apple's internals can transfer twice as fast as the best external can, and the best externals will outperform a $30 external. Could be the difference between 10 GB/s vs 2.8 GB/s, or less.

https://eclecticlight.co/2024/02/20/shopping-for-a-faster-external-ssd/

But, it is a lot of money for speed that many people can live without.

My gripe is that after reading that article and many of the comments, I'm discouraged from actually going down the DIY road. When the advice is "always buy models that you can return, just in case performance is lower than expected/advertised" you know it's going to take some time and effort. And specific models mentioned are usually no longer available by the time I read about them.

Either I pay Apple, or buy something convenient and decent and try not to fixate on the actual performance numbers. Pretty much all of them should blow my current drives out of the water, so now I just have to convince myself not to go down the rabbit hole.

RE: M4 Macs - Tetsuya - 11-20-2024

(11-19-2024, 11:39 PM)Matt Diamond Wrote: From what I'm reading, Apple's internals can transfer twice as fast as the best external can, and the best externals will outperform a $30 external. Could be the difference between 10 GB/s vs 2.8 GB/s, or less.

https://eclecticlight.co/2024/02/20/shopping-for-a-faster-external-ssd/

But, it is a lot of money for speed that many people can live without.

My gripe is that after reading that article and many of the comments, I'm discouraged from actually going down the DIY road. When the advice is "always buy models that you can return, just in case performance is lower than expected/advertised" you know it's going to take some time and effort. And specific models mentioned are usually no longer available by the time I read about them.

Either I pay Apple, or buy something convenient and decent and try not to fixate on the actual performance numbers. Pretty much all of them should blow my current drives out of the water, so now I just have to convince myself not to go down the rabbit hole.

Just dont fixate on the numbers.  You will never see them in the real world unless you are transfering large, single files back and forth.  

Its the same way people fixate on the PC side on PCIe 5.0 NVMe drives.  They get all "but ill get 13,000mbps transfers!!!" 

And im like.. are you transfering 500GB RAW video files around all the time?  

No?

Then you will not notice the difference between PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 5.0 on the best of days.  For smaller files, the controller overhead will always be the b ottleneck.  

Transfering that iTunes library (i can relate, mine is ~300GB) will take just as long on the slowest external vs the fastest internal.  Because you're transering thousands of ~50-100MB files.

There's also companies that make Thunderbolt docks that have NVMe storage in them. They made them for the previous Mini form factor, and it just sat under the Mini and you could barely tell it was there. I have to imagine someone will do something similar for the new form factor. Even if it is ~200$, you're still way ahead.

RE: M4 Macs - Thain Esh Kelch - 11-25-2024

Just ordered a Mac Mini M4 Pro 12/16/24GB/1TB. Decided not to go for the GPU upgrade to 20 cores, as I could see that real life results only added about 8-10% uplift in FPS. I'd rather use this one for some years, and then upgrade again. Now the 2 week waiting game begins. At least I have time to find a useful USB-C to USB-A hub, for all my peripherials in the mean time.

Next big buy will be a 34" 5k2k 120hz OLED display in 2026.

RE: M4 Macs - nef601 - 11-25-2024

My M4 Pro mini just arrived. Here it is with my custom iWood™* base, for ease of power button access and dusting/ventilation.


*iWood™. Unparalleled power efficiency, and it never needs a software update.

[Image: temp-Image-GYt-WAO.avif]

[Image: temp-Image-S1-Y6-D9.avif]

[Image: temp-Imageyzt3-Lq.avif]

RE: M4 Macs - Tetsuya - 11-26-2024

Yeah, as i predicted, my Facebook feed contained an ad for this:

https://www.raycue.com/products/raycue-type-c-stand-hub-with-ssd-enclosure-for-all-new-mac-mini-m4-m4pro?utm_medium=paid&utm_source=fb&utm_id=120212528349430259&utm_content=120212528579090259&utm_term=120212528349450259&utm_campaign=120212528349430259&fbclid=IwY2xjawGx0h1leHRuA2FlbQEwAGFkaWQBqxSoaddR8wEduct3aDOeBsRcgGcZwwDKe6qFHE71GjkufxgYsZqd4RZodDnxKsmA9Tvf_aem_5elcpzZ2XqZ8gC47ghRdFQ