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New MacBook Pro's

Macbook Pro Late 2016

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#81 mattw

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 02:29 PM

The new MacBook Pros to me show that Apple's philosophy hasn't changed - they are looking towards a post PC world and they see Macs as good enough for the mainstream general computing market.

Gone are the days where the 'Pro' models were offering higher performance and designed around the needs of creative professionals.

I know it's true that desktops are outsold by portables these days but there are still some of us who don't need portability and prefer the advantages of a desktop - even if most of those have now disappeared for Apple's desktops as well as more mobile parts and soldered in have taken over.

I still really like using a Mac but can see the day coming where I have to make some hard choices either due to not being able to update to the next OS or hardware problems and parts availability.

Gaming wise I'm already trying to make sure I'm buying cross platform version where possible so I have access to Windows and Linux builds in case I have no real possible future hardware to keep gaming on a new Mac.
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#82 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 03:04 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 02 November 2016 - 12:32 AM, said:

I was thinking the same thing. Cook is running Apple into the ground because he has no idea what makes the company special. I am just surprised that no one else around the CEOs board appear to tell him otherwise. They can't all be blind.

Tim will remain at the helm while Apple continues to be a cash machine. Because, we on this forum and others might be criticizing their designs and decisions, but meanwhile hordes of people are opening their wallets for anything with an Apple logo. (As for me, the last new Apple product I bought was a Mac Pro 2008, and the last used one was a Mac Pro 2009. Since then, nothing in their lineup was of interest to me. Sad...)

#83 Jan

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 03:12 PM

I'm part of the Creative Pro market and most people at my office love the new MBPs. We use Adobe CC, Final Cut Pro X and DaVinci Resolve daily and run MacBook Pros, iMacs and the thrashcan Mac Pro. Especially on the go the Touch Bar could come in handy in Final Cut. We don't believe MS's touchscreen bullpopsnizzle. Give us a nice multi monitor non touch setup + external Wacom over those hybrid devices any day! Last time I've spent big money on Macs was four, five years ago. Our Apple Thunderbolt 2 displays still work fine, but the resolution is not up to today's standards. Guess we'll get those nice LG 4K/5K UltraFine displays, new MacBook Pros and hopefully an updated Mac Pro soon. I don't mind the loss of the SD slot or the old USB ports. Technology moves on, businesses can write off their expenses and Thunderbolt 3 with USB-C is the future. We already run external video cards in racks and cases if we work on the road. With TB3 those will run even faster. Sometimes I can't understand the constant complaining of so called pros on the web. Apple uses the industry standard USB-C/TB3 port, not some proprietary solution. USB-C sticks and cables can be found dirt cheap on Amazon. This is the USB in the original iMac (no ADB!), scrapping of the SuperDrive (but what about my Lost DVDs!), etc. all over again. Apple never cared about legacy ports – never. Steve would have killed the old ports as well. Next investment cycle: Buy TB3 devices. Until then: Earn money with your working setup.
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#84 Matt Diamond

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 05:26 PM

Well, that's a good sanity check from Jan. I'm not entirely happy but maybe Apple hasn't completely lost touch with their customer base.

I was trying to decide this week whether to sell my Apple stock. It's one thing if they don't have a machine I want, but have I lost faith in the company as a whole?

Clearly something has gone wrong there (not having wireless earphones ready the day the iPhone 7 shipped, for example) but it takes time to get new products through the pipeline. Instead of a full-court press offensive to convince everyone that their current lineup is just dandy, they've been very tightlipped. I think they've got stuff coming (certainly iMac updates, probably others) that they think will go some way to patch the holes. Until then, they are taking their licks.

Also, I've joked that they are distracted with the new Apple headquarters, but I think there's a grain of truth to it. And that's nearing completion, apparently.

They've had dry periods before (Dalmation iMac, anyone?) usually as they transition to redesigned products, and this feels like that.

So I'm holding on to the stock (and my 2008 tower) for another year. The way things are going my next Mac will probably be an iMac, and I'll have to replace it sooner then a hypothetical tower, but given the historical price points I think it won't cost me more in the long run.
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#85 Frost

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:13 PM

Meh, my personal opinions aside, AAPL as a stock has become kinda meh. It's no longer a stock you buy and watch grow. It's more of an XOM or CVX or IBM or something of that sort. Where you buy shares and you know they'll be there and still have good value whenever you need them later, and will probably trend up over time. I think investors have sensed the change in direction from innovator and market creator to value maximizer under Cook. Defense contractors (I am loving BA and LMT for the past few years) and tech innovators are where the stock action has been happening lately.
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#86 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 02:39 AM

Personally i don't have any AAPL at the moment, but I'm planning to buy soon. Since I know the company so well, and follow it minutely, I know how the stock develops, making it easy to earn money on it.

Not as much as other stocks, but much more safe earnings.
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#87 Matt Diamond

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 04:50 AM

I agree that it's easier to invest in something that you are following anyway, as long as you can be objective about selling it. In fact AAPL is the only stock I've ever invested in, outside of mutual funds.

I suppose Apple might disrupt something else one day, but yes, it is a far less exciting stock than it used to be. If I wanted high risk/gain I'd look elsewhere. But I don't have a lot of insight into other companies, so I'd have to do a lot of homework. That's not a pastime that naturally interests me.
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#88 Atticus

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:05 PM

Two words: plastics.
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#89 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:40 PM

View PostAtticus, on 03 November 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

Two words: plastics.
We have a separate thread for boob jobs.
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#90 mattw

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 02:10 PM

View PostJan, on 02 November 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

I'm part of the Creative Pro market and most people at my office love the new MBPs. We use Adobe CC, Final Cut Pro X and DaVinci Resolve daily and run MacBook Pros, iMacs and the thrashcan Mac Pro. Especially on the go the Touch Bar could come in handy in Final Cut. We don't believe MS's touchscreen bullpopsnizzle. Give us a nice multi monitor non touch setup + external Wacom over those hybrid devices any day! Last time I've spent big money on Macs was four, five years ago. Our Apple Thunderbolt 2 displays still work fine, but the resolution is not up to today's standards. Guess we'll get those nice LG 4K/5K UltraFine displays, new MacBook Pros and hopefully an updated Mac Pro soon. I don't mind the loss of the SD slot or the old USB ports. Technology moves on, businesses can write off their expenses and Thunderbolt 3 with USB-C is the future. We already run external video cards in racks and cases if we work on the road. With TB3 those will run even faster. Sometimes I can't understand the constant complaining of so called pros on the web. Apple uses the industry standard USB-C/TB3 port, not some proprietary solution. USB-C sticks and cables can be found dirt cheap on Amazon. This is the USB in the original iMac (no ADB!), scrapping of the SuperDrive (but what about my Lost DVDs!), etc. all over again. Apple never cared about legacy ports – never. Steve would have killed the old ports as well. Next investment cycle: Buy TB3 devices. Until then: Earn money with your working setup.

I can understand your points and why the current direction may not be affecting everyone when upgrading but I wouldn't say I was a technical luddite.

I've always been an early adopter on day one for OS releases and try to keep up to date with new hardware technologies.

I much prefer digital only for my music, games etc. for sheer convenience and can't remember the last time I used the optical drive in my machine (in fact one of my complaints elsewhere in a thread about the PS4 and consoles as I considered them for gaming was the fact that unlike the Mac/PC physical media still has such large hold on the market - mainly because it gets discounted all the time where as on those platforms digital title less so).

For business customers longevity isn't too important it is true as they generally replace often regardless.

Even performance concerns don't effect everyone in business - for many tasks - even in the Creative pro arena hardware hasn't really moved performance forward that significantly since around 2012. If you have a good multicore CPU, decent amounts of RAM and maybe an SSD you are pretty much set.

The new Mac Pro "trashcan" I can even understand does/did fill a niche for Final Cut Pro X professionals very well - it just doesn't however have the flexibility to be configured to be a great solution for so many other different tasks which the earlier Mac Pro models all could be.

The main reason being that as good as Thunderbolt is as an improvement over FireWire etc. it isn't yet a complete replacement for everything you would use internal PCI-E slots for.

There are too many issues trying to use specialist hardware cards - especially GPUs. One day maybe everything will be possible without the compromises over Thunderbolt but even with version 3 I'm not sure we are there yet.

Having the flexibility to upgrade also offered good value to home users and hobbyists like me. Here we are 7 years after purchase still hanging in there with the high end iMacs for many tasks thanks to a few relatively cheap upgrades along the way and being able to add new features later (USB 3, eSATA etc.).

If I had gone with an iMac back in 2009 how many times would I have needed to upgrade? I'd say 2 or even 3 - take a look at the spec of a 2009 iMac and system requirements these days...
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#91 ipickert55

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 02:11 PM

View PostFrost, on 02 November 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

Man, Tim Cook or whoever is making the final hardware decisions over in Cupertino just needs to take care of that rectal-cranial inversion. They're sitting on more money than the GDP of most small countries. How frakking hard is it to do a simple hardware refresh? All the newer stuff is smaller and cooler, so it's not like there's some complex engineering challenge to figure out vis a vis cooling.

That right there is the reason that none of this makes any sense. They have so much damn money, what the hell else are they gonna spend it on?

Oh. Cars, apparently. Sick.
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#92 Frost

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 03:06 PM

This does not fill me with confidence in any kind of Apple car.

Jony Ive: It's so simple. So pure. A bright white car standing out against the city background. The old model did 0-60 in four seconds, on par with more expensive internal combustion engines. With our new weight savings, the car now goes 0-60 in twenty seconds, but we saved eighty-five pounds of weight and you will get an extra two miles per charge. We lost two stars in every crash test from the previous model, but the car is now six inches thinner. It features an all-new built in Apple Maps integration with Siri Self-Drive that will deposit you in a cornfield when you tell it to take you to the nearest FedEx Depot.

The battery is a marvel of engineering. The original Apple Car's battery could be swapped in fifteen minutes by any competent mechanic, or even by the consumer if necessary. The new one incorporates all manner of futuristic designs to saves weight and thickness and requires a complete teardown to basic parts at an Authorized Apple Garage. Capacity is improved 20%** over the previous battery.

For $500,000 we have the Apple Car Edition, which is exactly the same as the $40,000 Apple Car, but we put some gold on the steering wheel. This is the model for the discerning customer who used to buy Omega/Rolex Ferrari/Lamborghini, and wants a similar value from their means of conveyance while still owning... The Apple Car.

** Real word tests show equal charge.
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#93 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 03:19 AM

View PostCougar, on 02 November 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

I thought we were just talking about iMacs. I guess that shows something...were people really expecting Mini and Pro updates?
Absolutely, why wouldn't they? It is two central products of Apples Mac line, and both are known to go more than the regular 9-12 months update cycle, so now, even if quite late (3 years!), it would make sense.

....If Apple cared about the Mac that is. While I understand that the iPhone is 60% revenue for them, the Mac revenue is still ginourmeous compared to most companies, and I really don't get why they don't focus on it more. The whole ecosystem thing is one of Apples great strengths, and Cook is really killing it with fire at the moment.
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#94 macdude22

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 06:51 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 04 November 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

Absolutely, why wouldn't they? It is two central products of Apples Mac line, and both are known to go more than the regular 9-12 months update cycle, so now, even if quite late (3 years!), it would make sense.

We were expecting Mac updates because apple called this the "Hello Again" event. A clear nod to the Macintosh. They proceeded to spend half the time talking about  anything but the Mac like Apple TV. Calling this the "Hello Again" event I was expecting at least 2 lines to be updated if not 3. TBH I was expecting MBP, iMac, and Mac Pro updates to be released at the event. With a silent mini bump after the holidays.
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#95 Cougar

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 04:40 PM

There were zero rumors regarding iMacs or Pros, and meanwhile Gurman and Kuo were on target with their MBP predictions. They offered nothing about the desktops, so I wasn't expecting any. And a fall Pro update never made sense with intel's current roadmap. The 5K iMac coudn't have been updated because it's already on Skylake, and KL isn't available for it yet.

I agree that the "Hello Again" set up expectations pretty poorly for those who don't follow rumors, though.

#96 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:22 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 03 November 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

We have a separate thread for boob jobs.

Where? Where??? Link plz.
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#97 Janichsan

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:05 AM

The more is revealed about the new MBPs, the more I get the impression Apple has pretty much lost it.

They equipped the Touch Bar MBPs with four TB 3 ports – which is nice –, but in the 13" models, two of them have reduced bandwidth. What's worse, they somehow managed to make the new MBPs incompatible to a significant portion of existing (and probably also upcoming) TB 3 devices.

Generously, they allowed the new MBPs to keep the 3.5 mm headphone jack, with the justification that it's a port real pros were using – but then remove the actually really professional feature of it: the optical audio out. As result, the founder of Spectrasonics, one of the leading developers of virtual instruments, went on an angry rant on Facebook, culminating in the words "I hate you Apple!".

In general, Apple seems to have underestimated how small features like this are important to professional users. A classmate of my brother is photo journalist, mostly sports photography. He said the removal of the SD card slot is a major point of discontent for him and his colleagues: as part of their job, they often have to upload their pictures within minutes of taking them. If they are lucky, they have some opportunity to sit down to copy the pictures from their memory cards, but not rarely, they just have to hunker down somewhere. According to this guy, having to have an external card reader dangling from your laptop while doing this, is simply problematic and more cumbersome than the internal slot. Wireless transfer, as touted by Phil Schiller, is not an option, because it's slow and unreliable in most current cameras. (He added that while Schiller is right that having the card stick out of the computer puts undue strain on it – he had a couple of cards die because of this – but having the cards stick halfway out of a dangling adapter doesn't improve the situation.)

The 16 GB RAM limit also poses a problem for some groups of professionals. An acquaintance of mine that works in a recording studio told me that they are using a couple of first generation rMBPs and that they were in the market for something new, but that the new rMBPs simply won't do – because of the 16 GB RAM limit. He said that 16 GB RAM were plenty four years ago, but that many VST plugins for the software they were using have increased their memory requirements in the meantime, so that they are sometimes already working on the limit of what the RAM allows. 16 GB won't last another four years. (Admittedly, he also said that so far they haven't found any feasible alternative machines from other manufacturers and that they might be able to hold out another year in the hope that the 2017 rMBPs have more than 16 GB RAM.)

And it's not only the rMBPs that don't seem to be able to satisfy some groups of professionals: one of the two theoretical chemistry working groups here at the institute I'm currently working is almost exclusively equipped with Macs. They have a dozen or so iMacs as working place computers, and a couple of Mac Pros – including at least one trashcan nMP – for their number crunching (and a bunch of Mac minis as servers). Recently, they got the money to upgrade their equipment. They'll now be going to replace all the Macs with Windows and Linux machines – there's simply nothing from Apple to upgrade to.

An astrophysics group in the neighbouring institute is in the same predicament, and I've heard similar stories from other universities.

Admittedly, these are all just anecdotes, and it's certainly not all kinds of professionals that are unsatisfied by what Apple has to offer. (E.g. I could imagine graphics and web designers won't have much problems.) But I can't shake the impression that there is an increasing amount of alienation between Apple and some of their most faithful past customers.

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#98 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:30 AM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 04 November 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

Where? Where??? Link plz.
We'll need a signed piece of paper from your parents to allow you to view said thread.

View PostJanichsan, on 07 November 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:

Personally I do prefer my hardware to reject peripherials that don't live up to standard specifications.. I don't want my motherboard fried (Again!).

Quote

Admittedly, these are all just anecdotes, and it's certainly not all kinds of professionals that are unsatisfied by what Apple has to offer. (E.g. I could imagine graphics and web designers won't have much problems.) But I can't shake the impression that there is an increasing amount of alienation between Apple and some of their most faithful past customers.
Funny thing is that Microsoft now seem to cater to them. I wonder how long Cook can ride on the gullible consumer that just want bling and not practicalities. With the new iPhone 7, they've already shown that they don't even get the bling part, since it uses the same exteriors (Practically). Could also be the much rumored overhaul wasn't ready, but still.
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#99 Cougar

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 01:22 PM

The reduced bandwidth thing is Intel's fault, not Apple's. And Apple usually has good reasons for not supporting older chips. Considering there are hardly any TB3 things on the market right now, (and some, like Dell's dock, have had serious issues) I don't see this as much of an issue.

32 GB will come in 2018 with Coffelake when intel supports it in the low-power format and people will stop complaining. OK, maybe not.

The optical out thing is perplexing to me because if they were going to go with a headphone jack at all, are they really saving much space by not including it? Apple said that hardly anyone uses it, but if the cost is so minimal and those few who need it really need it...

Ditto with a card reader: while most people don't use them, Schiller's arguments did not make much sense. And unlike with other connection types, you can't just get a usb c to whatever cable.

I agree with most of Apple's decisions, but if it were me I'd have kept the optical audio and SD reader, and used the magic keyboard, while making it .01 mm thicker...

#100 the Battle Cat

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:18 PM

View PostCougar, on 07 November 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

.01 mm thicker...

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