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New MacBook Pro's

Macbook Pro Late 2016

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#101 Jan

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:30 PM

From a graphic designer's perspective, the new MBPs are fine. 16GB is plenty for most use cases. But the decision to remove optical audio and the SD card slot is premature. TB3 is an awesome port, but it will take some time until most of the pro gear supports it. Especially audio suppliers love legacy tech and ports.
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#102 Spike

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:40 PM

I like that Apple finally removed the SD card slot. It is a waste on my MacBook as well as people I know and so does not need to be internal.

Now if only they would have replaced it with USB-A or ethernet. I disagree with people who wrote that in a couple years USB-C will have replaced all USB-A as it is just way too common.

#103 macdude22

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:49 PM

View PostSpike, on 07 November 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

Now if only they would have replaced it with USB-A or ethernet. I disagree with people who wrote that in a couple years USB-C will have replaced all USB-A as it is just way too common.

This. Nobody is arguing that TB3/USB-C are not the future. They are. But up and removing USB-A was crazy, give some time to smooth this over. All my USB-A devices didn't suddenly disappear because Apple wished it. My 2012 MBP has USB, Firewire, etc... My Mac Pro has FW400 and 800. They could have smoothed over this transition with a token USB-A port that wouldn't have required a fleet of dongles (smaller fleet of dongles?). But Jony's unending quest for thin caused a serious case of form over function here.

I also don't know anyone that uses the SD card (and I have been taking an informal poll here at work) but I read that a lot of people do. Who knew.
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#104 Frost

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:53 PM

View PostSpike, on 07 November 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

I like that Apple finally removed the SD card slot. It is a waste on my MacBook as well as people I know and so does not need to be internal.

Well, I use it probably every other day for getting photos off my DSLR, so it would be sorely missed on my end. I really like my 2012 model because it's the first laptop I've owned where I need no frakking dongles of any kind for every use I have for it. I left the world of dongles when I sold my 2008 model and I do not miss making sure to pack my pile of attachments for my laptop at all.

I don't mind USB-A going away so much as I'm sure it'll be replaced down the road before long or and I can replace my USB-A flash drives with USB-C flash drives. But at least having an SD card slot, ethernet, and a headphone jack saves me three dongles I don't need to pack with me. I mean, really, only packing my MBP and if I'm going to be gone more than a day, a power adapter, is the way a professional laptop is meant to be done. No fuss. Thin is great for a consumer laptop. For a professional laptop, I need functionality more than I need it to be fancy and thin. I will happily take an extra couple ounces and an extra couple millimeters in exchange for that.
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#105 Cougar

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 03:57 PM

USB A deserves to die. It's a horribly designed port that should never have lasted as long as it had. I welcome its demise with open arms. And the more aggressive tech companies are about it, the faster the blissful USB C future will arrive. And it's because it is so common that tech companies need to be aggressive. Otherwise, it'll take forever to get there.

It's not as a big deal as the SD slot because you can just replace your cables, or buy flash drives with both connectors.

#106 Cougar

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 09:38 PM

Got my MBP today. It's been syncing all day (the only adaptor I have is usb 2.0) so my usage is minimal. First thoughts:

-The keyboard is fine. I still prefer the old one, but it's no big deal. The backlight does look a lot better with this keyboard, though.
-Love the space grey. I was initially disappointed there was no iPhone matte black, but the space grey looks great.
-I knew it would be smaller, but still makes my 13" 2010 look gigantic.
-Holy hell the trackpad is huge.
-Ironically, more than the ports they've taken away, I will miss the battery indicator light, and to a lesser extent, the sleep light. (I guess they removed them with the 2012 retina?)
-You have to give USB C cables a surprisingly hard tug. They are in there tight.

Edit: Well, this is going back. Kernel panic after doing a migration, and then my p key is stuck 50% of the time. Lovely. Hopefully I'll have better luck with the next one.

#107 macdude22

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 07:18 AM

View PostCougar, on 07 November 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

It's not as a big deal as the SD slot because you can just replace your cables, or buy flash drives with both connectors.

Have never met one person IRL that uses the SD card slot. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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#108 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 08:25 AM

View PostCougar, on 15 November 2016 - 09:38 PM, said:

Got my MBP today. It's been syncing all day (the only adaptor I have is usb 2.0) so my usage is minimal. First thoughts:

-The keyboard is fine. I still prefer the old one, but it's no big deal. The backlight does look a lot better with this keyboard, though.
-Love the space grey. I was initially disappointed there was no iPhone matte black, but the space grey looks great.
-I knew it would be smaller, but still makes my 13" 2010 look gigantic.
-Holy hell the trackpad is huge.
-Ironically, more than the ports they've taken away, I will miss the battery indicator light, and to a lesser extent, the sleep light. (I guess they removed them with the 2012 retina?)
-You have to give USB C cables a surprisingly hard tug. They are in there tight.

Edit: Well, this is going back. Kernel panic after doing a migration, and then my p key is stuck 50% of the time. Lovely. Hopefully I'll have better luck with the next one.

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#109 Cougar

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 11:26 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 16 November 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

Which model did you order?

13" Touchbar.

The touchbar is cool, but buggy. The first thing I did was remove Siri and replace it with Dashboard, but I can tell nobody at Apple uses it because you can't press the button to dismiss it. And watching Netflix makes a scrubber appear, but the time remaining is useless and if you try to use it Netflix gives you an unexpected error.

Haven't tried much gaming yet, but Civ V worked nicely on high in a mid-game save. Was pretty much unplayable on my 2010 13".

#110 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 08:52 AM

View PostCougar, on 16 November 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

13" Touchbar.

The touchbar is cool, but buggy. The first thing I did was remove Siri and replace it with Dashboard, but I can tell nobody at Apple uses it because you can't press the button to dismiss it. And watching Netflix makes a scrubber appear, but the time remaining is useless and if you try to use it Netflix gives you an unexpected error.

Haven't tried much gaming yet, but Civ V worked nicely on high in a mid-game save. Was pretty much unplayable on my 2010 13".

How is the fan noise while gaming?
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#111 the Battle Cat

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:14 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 17 November 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

How is the fan noise while gaming?

I'm glad someone finally asked.  It's terrible.  All the cheering and toasting when I do something such as make a seemingly impossible head shot throws me off my game.
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#112 Cougar

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 12:59 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 17 November 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

How is the fan noise while gaming?

Loud, but no different than my 2010.

#113 Frost

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 04:02 PM

I think it's just a staple of laptop gaming to hear

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

while enjoying your favorite titles.
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#114 macdude22

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 04:16 PM

I like playing borderlands on my MBP. I get to play a game and air bake snacks behind it.
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#115 the Battle Cat

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 07:42 PM

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#116 Janichsan

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 02:56 AM

I got my new 15" rMBP yesterday, but I hadn't had much time that day to do much more with it than setting up, so I'm still gathering experience with it.

First impressions: it doesn't feel much smaller and lighter than the 2012 model, although it objectively is. The trackpad is almost comically huge, but feels good. The Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter works perfectly, so my TB2 dock was instantly recognised (and hence all the devices attached to it). Currently, that adapter forms some kind of Human Centipede with my old TB2 to Ethernet adapter at work…

The Touch Bar does its job, though I haven't yet completely made up my mind whether it's really a boon or just makes things more cumbersome. (By the way, I found you could set it to permanently display the extended control strip, so that it could basically work as the old function keys – I never saw that mentioned in any review of the new rMBPs.) It could be a bit brighter, though. I will also take a while to get used to the lack of a physical escape key.

The verdict is also still out on the keyboard. On the one hand, it really does feel better than the first iteration of the butterfly mechanism on the rMB (and weirdly enough, also better than the keyboard on a new Escape Edition 13" rMBP I recently had the opportunity to try out), on the other hand it's still weird enough and I'm not sure whether I like it. It's also surprisingly loud.

I'm a bit disappointed that Apple removed the little flaps from the power brick, that let you coil up the cable. The power cable also sits very tight in the USB-C port in the rMBP, so that it's almost guaranteed not to be pulled out when someone yanks it. So Apple not only has removed MagSafe, they basically achieved the polar opposite… :glare:

I'm also disappointed by Apple's decision to stick with the old Retina resolution of 2880x1800. Pretty much all competing 15" HiDPI laptops have higher resolutions up to 4k. Apple's "solution" to compete with these? Redefining the standard setting to be "Looks like 1680 x 1050"…

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#117 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 12:54 PM

I wish they would have at least just pixel doubled 1680x1050 so the stock setting doesn't require additional GPU power to run properly.
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#118 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 09:26 PM

I wrote this really impassioned post about what I feel Apple has really lost and then managed to press cmd+q instead of A because of this god awful keyboard (magic keyboard, my arse, it hurts to type on this thing and I never know what buttons I'm pressing)

oh wow auto saved content bless this new board software:

I am interested to see wether or not they will kill USB-A on the new iMac. The sensitive side to me wants to feel its more of a cash and grab tactic than a logical move, but i've also considered that they wanted to dump USB-A as it was just too hard to fit it. I haven't seen the new MBP yet but it looks as if the inclusion of any USB-A ports would have come too close to the edge of the chassis. I definitely would've put it in the too hard basket.

Anyways it's not all doom and gloom, one just needs to put into perspective Apple's need to make more money from the devices we only upgrade every four years (at least they want us to upgrade them every four years). Individual spend is up on iPhone, it's up on iPad, the new Macbook Pro is about increasing the individual spend.
They still make the best OS (by an increasingly narrow margin imo), they still have relatively reliable products with best in class customer support.

Unfortunately I think the magic really died post-Tevanian-Rubenstien. What I mean by magic is the innovation in details. Each of us probably can point out several of these things that we've loved in Apple products over the years. MagSafe is one for instance that I've always loved, if Apple hadn't lost this relentless and uncompromising standard for these types of innovations, they'd have implemented a Magsafe USB-C charge cable (belkin makes one already). You could argue that they envision the future of this portable as one that customers will primarily use on battery power, just like our iOS devices, charge and go. But an uncompromising vision would say 'that's not good enough'. It would also say 'why are we making people pay for a GPO extension cable when we used to provide one for free?'.

Other criticisms are just noise. There were always going to be people disappointed about removal of an SD card slot (I use mine once every holiday, and there aren't any camera's that don't come with USB connectors anyways), people that want pro features like support for 32gb of RAM (My understanding a technical limitation that Apple were never going to make concessions for), better graphics chipsets (the need to power 5k displays, something only AMD can do this time around, seems to have prevented them from using faster chips from Nvidia).

It's clear that Apple's primary motivation in redesigning their product lineup is to increase the individual spend on a per customer basis, and increase the rate at which people upgrade. Unfortunately this means for me that they make dramatically less compelling products. Yes Apple have axed things in the past, but they were only ever killing things that were on their way out or really needed to die (Optical Media, Firewire, Floppy, Expresscard, SDcard). Taking out USB-A entirely is just user hostile. At least provide an adapter in the box. As it stands you wouldn't be able to plug the Macbook Pro into any iOS device without spending additional money on a cable. It's an absurdity to be asking this of users. I don't feel like this is a death knell, but it definetly highlights the extent to which Apple thinks different (lmao) ly about user experience.



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#119 Janichsan

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 06:28 AM

After now two weeks of first-hand experience with the new 15" rMBP, I can summarise my opinion in two words:

Overall underwhelming.

Since AMG brought up the topic, let me start with the observation that the switch to USB-C only is the least of its problems. Yes, popsnizzle like this is definitely not pretty (and I doubt its mechanical stability), and the adapters are a nuisance, but it's really just this: a nuisance. This is absolutely nothing like the switch to USB when Apple released the first iMac. Back then, your only option was to throw away all your old periphery with ADB, SCSI, parallel port and whatever else connector they used, and buy new USB devices.

Now, you can still use every peripheral device you own. Yes, at the price of a new cable or an adapter, but that's absolutely negligible. I paid less than €40 in total for new cables and adapters, and I only had to spent that much because one of these was a relatively expensive Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter. I'd wager that most people would have to expend much less, and that no one will have to cough up more than about $100 to get even the most complex setup of peripherals working with a new USB-C only Mac (unless they want to).

As often in these days, this part of the criticism is completely blown out of proportion. I agree, though, that Apple could (and should) have shipped the new rMBPs with an USB-C to USB-A adapter and/or a Lightning to USB-C cable. This would have significantly reduced the complaints.

The new rMBPs surely have their high points: the display is awesome (although I'd wager that less observant users wouldn't notice much difference between the new displays and the ones in the previous models), the trackpad great, the new speakers surprisingly loud and clear. The SSD is so fast that the program I used to benchmark it can't handle the speed: it maxes out at 2000 MB/s. The device stays cool and silent, also when gaming. Even at maximum speed, the fans produce much less noise than the previous 2012 rMBP.

Other than that, there are definitely a lot of aspects to criticise.

The keyboard is terrible. Period. Admittedly, it's improved compared to the first generation butterfly keyboard in the rMBs, but that's a very low standard to compare to. The new keyboard is just so good enough that I can type with it without having too many problems, but make no mistake: it's nothing but merely acceptable. It's still a massive step back in comparison to every other keyboard I ever worked with. Even the foldable Microsoft Bluetooth keyboard feels better to type on. I wish I were joking, but I'm not.

The performance of the new rMBP (aside disk speed)? Underwhelming. I did not run any benchmark applications, since I do not believe that these provide any really meaningful data that translate into real-life experience, but I ran I couple of quantum chemical calculation (that's some really heavy duty number crunching) to get an impression of the rMBPs raw calculating power. Despite having the top model with an 2.9 GHz i7, I'm seeing little more than a 10% reduction in calculation time compared to my old 2012 model.

Graphics performance? Mostly underwhelming. The 4 GB Radeon Pro 460 completely fails to impress. You would think that even a lower middle-class 2016 GPU would be able to achieve more than averagely 50 fps (40–60 fps, with occasional higher framerates in the low 70s – so there's no hard cap) in a couple of years old game like Borderlands 2 or GRiD 2 – at 1440x900, so not even full HD –, but it doesn't. Admittedly, that's still a noticeable improvement over the 650M in the 2012 rMBP, but not great. On the other hand: Mad Max also runs at ca. 50 fps at the same resolution and high settings…

Granted, that's all under macOS, which isn't known for impressive graphics performance. I have yet to see how the GPU fares under Windows, but hadn't had the time to install Bootcamp – which probably was for the better.

The Touch Bar? Underwhelming, although I have to say that this is mostly a software problem. Technically, it's fine, even if (as I already mentioned early) I think it could be brighter, and even if it fairly sluggishly updates. It does its job, but it's also clear that the developers have yet to figure out what to really do with it. I have tried it in a couple of application that boast Touch Bar support (aside Safari, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, Affinity Designer, and Pixelmator), and I didn't find it particularly useful in any of these. Often you might be better off with old-fashioned keyboard shortcuts or even just using the mouse to select the appropriate options. Many things require actually two or three taps, are hidden in sub-menus or obfuscated with strange symbols that have no equivalent anywhere else in the application. You might remember the demonstration from the MacBook event where they showed how, e.g. in Pages, you can easily switch the text format to bold or italic on the Touch Bar. Well, unfortunately, these formatting options are by default hidden by the Quick Typing suggestions… (which you can at least disable). It doesn't help that in most applications the Touch Bar isn't configurable – this includes most Apple apps. (I do like TouchID, though, but the dedicated button feels very flimsy and wobbles…)

The battery life? Very underwhelming. It's actually much worse than the 2012 rMBP. When my old machine was new, I was able to easily get more than 7 hours of battery life out of it, while browsing the internet (wirelessly), using office applications like Word and Excel, and constantly playing music via iTunes (no streaming, though). The longest I could use the new 2016 rMBP on battery was so far just shy of 6 hours, doing nothing but some internet browsing (with Safari). iTunes streaming easily shaves off a whole hour. To give an idea how fast the battery drains: in the last 10 minutes of writing this (and doing nothing else), I lost 5% of charge and about 30 minutes of alleged battery life remaining, so the given time is simply a blatant lie.

Is that thing worth the money I paid for it? No, simple as that. It's not the total disaster many make of it, but it's far from what I would have expected from Apple, and especially far from what I would have expected for that price.

And yes, I'm still miffed that they removed MagSafe and the SD card slot.

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#120 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 11:43 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 08 December 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

After now two weeks of first-hand experience with the new 15" rMBP, I can summarise my opinion in two words:

Overall underwhelming.

The 1 micron of extra thinness they achieved is clearly worth all of these negatives. My 2015 13" rMBP is so fraking thick that I struggle fitting it in the trunk of my car.
2015 13" rMBP: i5 5257U @ 2.7 GHz || Intel Iris 6100 || 8 GB LPDDR3 1866 || 256 GB SSD || macOS Sierra
Gaming Build: R5 1600 @ 3.9 GHz || Asus GTX 1070 8 GB || 16 GB DDR4 3000 || 960 Evo NVMe, 1 TB FireCuda || Win10 Pro
Other: Dell OptiPlex 3040 as VMware host || QNAP TS-228 NAS || iPhone 6S 64GB





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