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#1 Midwinter

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 03:36 AM

Hi guys.
I am SUPER frustrated.

I bought this Macbook Pro a week ago. 2.5GHz 16GB Ram, Radeon M370X GPU.
I am running WoW with recommended settings (overall quality is 5) and I get 70 fps and then a drop to 40 and in Scenarios it drops to 15, which is embarrassing.

When I connect it to my Dell FHD monitor, the fps drops even more down, for some reason.

I want to buy an external GPU but we don't sell this in my country.

Can someone please help me set the game to get a better and more stable fps without playing everything on "low"
+ to help me set it on my external FHD Dell screen?

Many thanks.

#2 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 08:13 AM

I don't play WoW, but the M370X should have no problem running it. What resolution is the Dell screen? You mention FHD - so I assume 1920x1080?

When you say it drops to 15fps during 'Scenarios' - can you describe what is happening during the scenario? Is this like a huge raiding party with 100's of players/NPC's on screen?

Also, make sure that your are connected to power when you play. Laptops will throttle down when on battery to save battery life, which can murder game framerates.
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#3 Tibur

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 09:45 AM

I have no technical advice to offer, but given that Legion just dropped on Tuesday, lag has been pretty ridiculous, even in the "solo" scenarios.  I'm on a 2013 iMac (not top of the line) and until Tuesday, wasn't experiencing any problems (though I did see a bit of lag during the pre-expansion "invasions").  Since Tuesday, though, it's been much wore.  I've been in combat, hitting my keybindings and nothing happens.  Nameplates of the mobs read "unknown" and everyone is mostly frozen in place.  I would certainly look for other answers, but I have to think that at least some of the problems you re seeing will sort themselves out as the weeks go by.  Blizzard will make hotfixes, players will move beyond the starting areas and latency will improve.  Good luck!

#4 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:07 AM

You should go into options and configure the raid settings tab differently than the regular settings tab. Basically, one set of settings should be fine for solo questing and dungeon runs and these can be your higher settings. Raid settings you want to turn down various eye candy so you get good performance when there are many players and mobs and spell effects all going off at once. This is why you see poor performance in a scenario. If you are talking about the opening scenario leading into the Legion expansion the amount of stuff going on there at times is insane so naturally on anything less than a desktop rig you need to adjust down for that.

Don't be discouraged as with some experimentation you certainly can have a good experience playing WoW on that system and external monitor although keep in mind that screen resolution has a dramatic effect on performance given how many pixels have to be updated constantly.

I think somebody wrote up a good post on performance tips for Legion for Mac users in the Battlenet WoW forums for Mac, possibly under the support section. I saw that the other day and noted it was stickied. It explains each setting and the impact on performance for Mac users in particular.

Some settings have a high impact on performance while not being a big deal visually although that is always a subjective thing. Shadow settings come to mind here as does AA depending on how high your screen resolution is. I would recommend making sure vsync is off also unless for some reason you encounter a lot of screen tearing and it is bothersome but I doubt that would be an issue from what you are reporting. View distance is another one that while nice is not essential much of the time when you are more focused on combat and your action bars than anything else. So this is something that you could experiment with turning down some. SSAO is another one that is not necessarily a big deal but does have high performance impact.

For any settings you want to try toning down you can always go with a middle of the road medium and play solo a bit to see what you think. I would say begin with a screen's native resolution and then try adjusting the eye candy from there with World or Warcraft.

EDIT: The above recommendation for screen resolution does not apply to Retina most if not all of the time on Macs because that is just too many pixels to drive with any mobile card in existence for any game that is at all demanding and WoW is now. This topic and screen scaling and the settings relevant to this are covered very well in the post I mentioned on the Battlenet WoW Mac forums. Be sure to go find that and read it. It should answer most of your technical questions but I will add one thing about it. The author while knowledgeable and very helpful in that stickied post was a little negative about Macs overall and I didn't think that needed to be in there really but that was just my take. I'd ignore such comments and just benefit from the information instead.

As Tibur pointed out too, the game's new release is just that and probably needs and will get further tuning particularly where the Metal API implementation is concerned. Given server loads per usual there is plenty of lag and there have been issues with DDoS attacks and high latency with disconnects, etc. So some of what you see is not your system or settings at all. It is problems on the server side and with WoW itself.

All that said, again just take your time and go read about the settings on the WOW forums or Google for information about what each does and how it impacts performance on any system in any game. Learning about these is very helpful in modifying things to get the best balance between nice visuals and decent performance.

The most important thing here though is that your MacBook Pro certainly can run WoW decently. So don't let the learning curve about setting it up right and the issues that always happen with all MMO expansion launches get to you. The latter will settle down in the coming weeks and the former you can learn about and fix yourself. I would share good settings if I knew them but I do not own a MacBook Pro so I can't be of any real help there other than what I mentioned above.
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#5 the Battle Cat

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 03:46 PM

Oh you big smarty pants.
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#6 nick68k

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 08:44 PM

I'm playing Legion on a 2015 21.5" Retina iMac with significantly worse graphics hardware than yours (Iris Pro 6200) and I'm getting major framerate drops in scenarios (typically to under 5 fps). I suspect this is a server-side issue at the moment; there are lots of players crammed into this content just now. There's an instanced island 'Helheim' in one of the zones that has atrocious fps on my system; 1-2 fps.

(FWIW I'm playing at 1920 x 1080, graphics at '4', OpenGL, AA off. Frame rates out in the open world are 20-30 fps or so).
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#7 Midwinter

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 12:55 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 01 September 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

I don't play WoW, but the M370X should have no problem running it. What resolution is the Dell screen? You mention FHD - so I assume 1920x1080?

When you say it drops to 15fps during 'Scenarios' - can you describe what is happening during the scenario? Is this like a huge raiding party with 100's of players/NPC's on screen?

Also, make sure that your are connected to power when you play. Laptops will throttle down when on battery to save battery life, which can murder game framerates.

Hi man, yes, it's 1920X1080.
Scenario with around 20 players, approx 10 npc's and spell casting obviously.

I am connected to power but i noticed that when i play on my Dell screen, the retina stays active, maybe it drops the fps too but i just now discovered that in order to turn off the retina, i need to close the shell and use an external keyboard and mice.

#8 Midwinter

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 01:19 AM

View PostTibur, on 01 September 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

I have no technical advice to offer, but given that Legion just dropped on Tuesday, lag has been pretty ridiculous, even in the "solo" scenarios.  I'm on a 2013 iMac (not top of the line) and until Tuesday, wasn't experiencing any problems (though I did see a bit of lag during the pre-expansion "invasions").  Since Tuesday, though, it's been much wore.  I've been in combat, hitting my keybindings and nothing happens.  Nameplates of the mobs read "unknown" and everyone is mostly frozen in place.  I would certainly look for other answers, but I have to think that at least some of the problems you re seeing will sort themselves out as the weeks go by.  Blizzard will make hotfixes, players will move beyond the starting areas and latency will improve.  Good luck!

Thanks man. I kinda guessed it too but I wasn't sure if I'm lying to myself. Thanks for clearing that out.

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 01 September 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

You should go into options and configure the raid settings tab differently than the regular settings tab. Basically, one set of settings should be fine for solo questing and dungeon runs and these can be your higher settings. Raid settings you want to turn down various eye candy so you get good performance when there are many players and mobs and spell effects all going off at once. This is why you see poor performance in a scenario. If you are talking about the opening scenario leading into the Legion expansion the amount of stuff going on there at times is insane so naturally on anything less than a desktop rig you need to adjust down for that.

Don't be discouraged as with some experimentation you certainly can have a good experience playing WoW on that system and external monitor although keep in mind that screen resolution has a dramatic effect on performance given how many pixels have to be updated constantly.

I think somebody wrote up a good post on performance tips for Legion for Mac users in the Battlenet WoW forums for Mac, possibly under the support section. I saw that the other day and noted it was stickied. It explains each setting and the impact on performance for Mac users in particular.

Some settings have a high impact on performance while not being a big deal visually although that is always a subjective thing. Shadow settings come to mind here as does AA depending on how high your screen resolution is. I would recommend making sure vsync is off also unless for some reason you encounter a lot of screen tearing and it is bothersome but I doubt that would be an issue from what you are reporting. View distance is another one that while nice is not essential much of the time when you are more focused on combat and your action bars than anything else. So this is something that you could experiment with turning down some. SSAO is another one that is not necessarily a big deal but does have high performance impact.

For any settings you want to try toning down you can always go with a middle of the road medium and play solo a bit to see what you think. I would say begin with a screen's native resolution and then try adjusting the eye candy from there with World or Warcraft.

EDIT: The above recommendation for screen resolution does not apply to Retina most if not all of the time on Macs because that is just too many pixels to drive with any mobile card in existence for any game that is at all demanding and WoW is now. This topic and screen scaling and the settings relevant to this are covered very well in the post I mentioned on the Battlenet WoW Mac forums. Be sure to go find that and read it. It should answer most of your technical questions but I will add one thing about it. The author while knowledgeable and very helpful in that stickied post was a little negative about Macs overall and I didn't think that needed to be in there really but that was just my take. I'd ignore such comments and just benefit from the information instead.

As Tibur pointed out too, the game's new release is just that and probably needs and will get further tuning particularly where the Metal API implementation is concerned. Given server loads per usual there is plenty of lag and there have been issues with DDoS attacks and high latency with disconnects, etc. So some of what you see is not your system or settings at all. It is problems on the server side and with WoW itself.

All that said, again just take your time and go read about the settings on the WOW forums or Google for information about what each does and how it impacts performance on any system in any game. Learning about these is very helpful in modifying things to get the best balance between nice visuals and decent performance.

The most important thing here though is that your MacBook Pro certainly can run WoW decently. So don't let the learning curve about setting it up right and the issues that always happen with all MMO expansion launches get to you. The latter will settle down in the coming weeks and the former you can learn about and fix yourself. I would share good settings if I knew them but I do not own a MacBook Pro so I can't be of any real help there other than what I mentioned above.

Wow. You helped me a whole lot! Thanks for that. I'll check the post you mentioned right now.
I messed around with the settings last night and it was kinda better, but I need to check it on more popular areas.
Another problem I discovered is that the retina stays active when I connect the external screen. The solution is to get an external mice and keyboard and close the shell. I'll do that

View Postnick68k, on 01 September 2016 - 08:44 PM, said:

I'm playing Legion on a 2015 21.5" Retina iMac with significantly worse graphics hardware than yours (Iris Pro 6200) and I'm getting major framerate drops in scenarios (typically to under 5 fps). I suspect this is a server-side issue at the moment; there are lots of players crammed into this content just now. There's an instanced island 'Helheim' in one of the zones that has atrocious fps on my system; 1-2 fps.

(FWIW I'm playing at 1920 x 1080, graphics at '4', OpenGL, AA off. Frame rates out in the open world are 20-30 fps or so).

Framerate is 1-2? Dying. Really. I don't wanna experience that. Even my PC that usually gets 80-90 fps is now on 40 so I know something is wrong.

#9 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 12:56 PM

I'm not sure what you mean about the "retina stays active" because it isn't possible to run a display any higher than the native resolution it supports. In other words as an example, my 2013 iMac has a 27" screen with a native resolution of 1440p or 2560 x 1440 so, that is the absolute highest resolution this is capable of displaying. If your external display does support higher than HD resolutions (1080p) and you want to not go above that, you can control that in WoW's own video settings. I don't understand how using a separate mouse and keyboard would make any difference there unless there is something I am misunderstanding here.

When you have time review that post I mentioned which actually while detailed is not all that long. It's not like you'll have to read a book on this stuff but it will explain to you just exactly how retina displays can be controlled for improved performance including controlling what is rendered by the GPU before it is ever sent to the display. Maybe this is what you are talking about. By default that is set to 100 but can be changed and the post discusses that. I really, really doubt there's any need for external peripherals unless you want them for other reasons to exert control over your video display at all.

Anyway, make sure to go over that post. Don't make me go find it now. I know it is on the Battlenet WoW forums in the Mac section of them and I am pretty sure it is in the support section (if not try general) and I know they stickied the post where it is so helpful.
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#10 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 01:02 PM

By the way, you'd better be a card carrying member of the Horde who has pledged your life to serving the Horde and the dictates of the Warchief with undying loyalty. I would hate to think I've been helping the Alliance here. Although, I suppose we are temporarily allied in bringing the hurt to the Legion for the time being so maybe it is okay but only this one time.
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#11 macdude22

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 01:11 PM

Yea that thing Harry said, WoW can't render at retina resolutions with current hardware. So they render the UI at full sharp res and scale the game res. You may want to play around with this a bit. That said, folk I work with (windows and Mac players) have all been complaining about performance issues with Lagoon.

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#12 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 01:33 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 02 September 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean about the "retina stays active" because it isn't possible to run a display any higher than the native resolution it supports.

I think he means that his laptop screen (the retina screen) is still on while he games on his Dell screen (the 1920x1080 screen).

In System Preferences > Displays you can set which monitor is the main one, which determines where the game is displayed. I assume you have already done that though. Closing the retina screen may give you a bit extra performance, but running additional monitors doesn't require much processing power.
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#13 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 01:41 PM

Thanks Sneaky one. That did not dawn on me where I don't own a MacBook.
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#14 macdude22

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 02:24 PM

Can't you just run it in closed display mode?

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#15 Midwinter

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 10:41 AM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 02 September 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean about the "retina stays active" because it isn't possible to run a display any higher than the native resolution it supports. In other words as an example, my 2013 iMac has a 27" screen with a native resolution of 1440p or 2560 x 1440 so, that is the absolute highest resolution this is capable of displaying. If your external display does support higher than HD resolutions (1080p) and you want to not go above that, you can control that in WoW's own video settings. I don't understand how using a separate mouse and keyboard would make any difference there unless there is something I am misunderstanding here.

When you have time review that post I mentioned which actually while detailed is not all that long. It's not like you'll have to read a book on this stuff but it will explain to you just exactly how retina displays can be controlled for improved performance including controlling what is rendered by the GPU before it is ever sent to the display. Maybe this is what you are talking about. By default that is set to 100 but can be changed and the post discusses that. I really, really doubt there's any need for external peripherals unless you want them for other reasons to exert control over your video display at all.

Anyway, make sure to go over that post. Don't make me go find it now. I know it is on the Battlenet WoW forums in the Mac section of them and I am pretty sure it is in the support section (if not try general) and I know they stickied the post where it is so helpful.

View PostSneaky Snake, on 02 September 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

I think he means that his laptop screen (the retina screen) is still on while he games on his Dell screen (the 1920x1080 screen).

In System Preferences > Displays you can set which monitor is the main one, which determines where the game is displayed. I assume you have already done that though. Closing the retina screen may give you a bit extra performance, but running additional monitors doesn't require much processing power.

View Postmacdude22, on 02 September 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

Can't you just run it in closed display mode?

https://support.appl.../en-us/HT201834

What Sneaky Snake said. My Retina stayed active when I played on my Dell screen. I ended up buying an Apple Magic Keyboard and a razer Ouroboros mouse, so now I can close the lid and my performance majorly improved. Since I bought this Mac, I always seem to buy more and more accessories to make it work the way I want to. But I think I made my last purchase.

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 02 September 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

By the way, you'd better be a card carrying member of the Horde who has pledged your life to serving the Horde and the dictates of the Warchief with undying loyalty. I would hate to think I've been helping the Alliance here. Although, I suppose we are temporarily allied in bringing the hurt to the Legion for the time being so maybe it is okay but only this one time.

Sorry mate, I play for the Alliance. But I am starting a Blood Elf Warlock, cuz I can't deny my love for the Belves. And yeah, we're allies for the time being. Lets spread the love between the clans <3

I played with the settings, ended up setting Overall Quality to 7, setting most of the settings on "Low" and Spells on "High" cuz it's important for me. I get 80-40 fps most of the time, which is awesome. I'm pleased.
I am waiting for the hotfix, that's suppose to be launched today, I think.

I have one last question guys,
Overall quality is cool, but the text is annoying - both in chat and in quest logs. Some sentences are cut at the top or the bottom and I can't read it smoothly. Did anyone encounter this weird problem and can tell me what to do? I tried to change font or something but I couldn't find an option for that. I keep reading the names of the location wrong because the top part of the "T" is cut and looks like a lowercase "L", for example.

#16 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 07:06 PM

I have noticed some minor issues with text display in quests also and I am running in Windows on my iMac now. So I think it is just a WoW thing that will hopefully get sorted in time. The issues I see here are very minor but I have noticed them. I haven't run into anything I could not read so far.
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#17 Midwinter

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 03:10 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 06 September 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

I have noticed some minor issues with text display in quests also and I am running in Windows on my iMac now. So I think it is just a WoW thing that will hopefully get sorted in time. The issues I see here are very minor but I have noticed them. I haven't run into anything I could not read so far.

Awesomeness. Thanks for that :)