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Obduction and UE 4


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#41 Frost

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 11:20 PM

Redeemed my Kickstarter codes and got it downloaded on Steam. I'm debating whether I should play it now, or wait till I have a Vive and play the VR version. Hmm...
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#42 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 10:10 AM

View PostFrost, on 25 August 2016 - 11:20 PM, said:

Redeemed my Kickstarter codes and got it downloaded on Steam. I'm debating whether I should play it now, or wait till I have a Vive and play the VR version. Hmm...

Wait. If you're going to spring for that why not enjoy this title in hopefully all its VR glory?
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#43 Frost

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 04:17 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 26 August 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Wait. If you're going to spring for that why not enjoy this title in hopefully all its VR glory?

That's what I'm thinking. Budget permitting I'm hoping to get a Vive in the next 6 months. The VR version of Obduction will no doubt be ready for primetime by then... might be a great idea to wait and experience it for the first time that way.
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Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#44 Rev-O

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 06:48 PM

I'm done with the disappointment that the Mac build is more of a work in progress than I'd hoped it would be. The game looks fascinating and as someone who loves Myst, something I look forward to playing.
No matter what my settings it's pretty bad right now. Unplayable? No. Not on point and click and everything on low. Enjoyable? No. Will wait for updates.
I appreciate Epic putting the resources into making UE4 for Mac and working on Metal integration, honestly. I'm guessing it's not a big money maker for them. I do wish that Cyan had better messaging on the Mac build. The need to make sure that your Mac was running Metal and the cutoffs for Macs able to run the game was not well publicized (if publicized at all) until post release. I think it would go some ways to give a vague path forward for the Mac build would assuage some hard feelings but maybe they don't want to promise anything they might not be able to deliver. I understand that, but at the same time it kinda leaves folks dangling.
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I figure it will get sorted out at some point!

#45 jeannot

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 11:41 PM

But does the game use Metal at all? UE 4.11 does support Metal, but it doesn't mean that Obduction uses that version, or Cyan may have decided to use openGL instead for some reason.

#46 Cougar

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 03:25 AM

After a series of unfortunate events (Tldr: I was robbed) finally fired up the game. Tried it in Windows. Game is lovely, but I have this issue: http://steamcommunit...47436766033756/ even with s SSD. I'll try it on the Mac side in a few days, but it'll surely be worse. I will lol if it's better.



#47 marksatt

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 09:05 AM

View Postjeannot, on 31 August 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

But does the game use Metal at all? UE 4.11 does support Metal, but it doesn't mean that Obduction uses that version, or Cyan may have decided to use openGL instead for some reason.

Obduction uses Metal, not OpenGL.

View PostRev-O, on 30 August 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

I'm done with the disappointment that the Mac build is more of a work in progress than I'd hoped it would be. The game looks fascinating and as someone who loves Myst, something I look forward to playing.
No matter what my settings it's pretty bad right now. Unplayable? No. Not on point and click and everything on low. Enjoyable? No. Will wait for updates.
I appreciate Epic putting the resources into making UE4 for Mac and working on Metal integration, honestly. I'm guessing it's not a big money maker for them. I do wish that Cyan had better messaging on the Mac build. The need to make sure that your Mac was running Metal and the cutoffs for Macs able to run the game was not well publicized (if publicized at all) until post release. I think it would go some ways to give a vague path forward for the Mac build would assuage some hard feelings but maybe they don't want to promise anything they might not be able to deliver. I understand that, but at the same time it kinda leaves folks dangling.
Shrug.
I figure it will get sorted out at some point!

As Cyan have said - we're working on it - beyond that there's nothing much that can be said.

View PostCougar, on 04 September 2016 - 03:25 AM, said:

After a series of unfortunate events (Tldr: I was robbed) finally fired up the game. Tried it in Windows. Game is lovely, but I have this issue: http://steamcommunit...47436766033756/ even with s SSD. I'll try it on the Mac side in a few days, but it'll surely be worse. I will lol if it's better.

Well now, that's very interesting.

#48 Cougar

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 08:15 AM

View Postmarksatt, on 04 September 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:


Well now, that's very interesting.

Uh oh. I don't like "interesting" problems.

#49 Cougar

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 05:46 AM

Well, tried it in OS X and it's a slideshow. Feels like it's loading assets every five seconds.

Good news is the hitching problems in Windows mysteriously vanished, and I can enjoy it with "epic" settings quite nicely.

#50 devSin

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 03:49 PM

View PostCougar, on 08 September 2016 - 05:46 AM, said:

Well, tried it in OS X and it's a slideshow. Feels like it's loading assets every five seconds.

Good news is the hitching problems in Windows mysteriously vanished, and I can enjoy it with "epic" settings quite nicely.
On a 4GB card? What settings did you try in OS X?

I also wonder if there are any missing or gimped features in the Mac version (especially on 10.11). (Mark?)

#51 Cougar

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 04:14 PM

View PostdevSin, on 08 September 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

On a 4GB card? What settings did you try in OS X?

I also wonder if there are any missing or gimped features in the Mac version (especially on 10.11). (Mark?)

Yes, a 4 GB (well, 3.5+.5) 970.

On Epic settings. I'm sure I could've fiddled with it, but I'm rebooting in Windows for Deus Ex anyway and didn't bother.

#52 marksatt

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 08:36 PM

All I can say is Cyan marked it as a Beta for a reason and we're working on it.

In general terms, there is nothing 'gimped' about the Mac version of UE4 - we use and expose all the features that are available. We can't do more than that and as macOS & particularly Metal evolves so will our support.

#53 jeannot

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 11:11 AM

View PostCougar, on 08 September 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

Yes, a 4 GB (well, 3.5+.5) 970.

On Epic settings. I'm sure I could've fiddled with it, but I'm rebooting in Windows for Deus Ex anyway and didn't bother.
The 970 isn't officially supported by Apple is it? I heard that web drivers were not very good in respect to Metal.

#54 Cougar

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 11:40 AM

View Postjeannot, on 10 September 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

The 970 isn't officially supported by Apple is it? I heard that web drivers were not very good in respect to Metal.

Correct, you have to use the web drivers.

#55 Cougar

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 11:35 AM

Well, I beat the game.

The first 3/4ths of the game is  brilliant. The design of the "hub" world is truly great, and the way everything is interrelated reminded me of Riven.

It also wouldn't be a Cyan game without a devilishly evil number system. I thought it was very inventive, but it could have been implemented in the game better. It's possible to "brute force" your answers until a certain point until you are forced to enter a large number for the first time, but you can't go back to the learning area at that point.

The most disappointing thing was the endgame. Without spoiling anything, they kind of drop a narrative thread, and I expected the final world to be much more elaborate than it ended up being. I know that Cyan had been on the verge of getting additional funding form an investor, but it fell through at the last moment. The game doesn't feel short, though.

It ends with a lot of unanswered questions and I hope Cyan gets the opportunity to do another one. The premise is certainly intriguing enough to warrant further exploration.



#56 Matt Diamond

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 04:50 AM

Quote

The most disappointing thing was the endgame.

Hey, some of us want to play it without having anything spoiled! Now I know the game has an ending. The whole time I'm playing it I'm going to waiting for that bomb to drop. Thanks for nothing!
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#57 devSin

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 01:52 PM

View Postmarksatt, on 09 September 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

In general terms, there is nothing 'gimped' about the Mac version of UE4 - we use and expose all the features that are available. We can't do more than that and as macOS & particularly Metal evolves so will our support.
Sorry. I didn't mean to put you on the spot.

I was just curious (as a future purchaser) where the game was at in terms of visual parity (as you note, some things just aren't possible yet, but I don't know how much that impacts Obduction). (Obviously, that's more a question for Cyan.)

I name-dropped you out of curiosity if there were any "big ticket" features/techniques (AO, post-processing, whatever) that are absent in UE4 entirely (at the moment), and if/how that impacts performance (the one comment we have is that the game was glacial on epic settings, and it made me wonder if the Mac version was also doing less at the same time as the equivalent settings in Windows).

#58 marksatt

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 09:45 AM

View PostdevSin, on 15 September 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

Sorry. I didn't mean to put you on the spot.

I was just curious (as a future purchaser) where the game was at in terms of visual parity (as you note, some things just aren't possible yet, but I don't know how much that impacts Obduction). (Obviously, that's more a question for Cyan.)

I name-dropped you out of curiosity if there were any "big ticket" features/techniques (AO, post-processing, whatever) that are absent in UE4 entirely (at the moment), and if/how that impacts performance (the one comment we have is that the game was glacial on epic settings, and it made me wonder if the Mac version was also doing less at the same time as the equivalent settings in Windows).

No worries, but I can't really talk about Obduction specifically other than the reiterate what's already been said - it's a Beta, Cyan are working with us, don't generalise based on Beta performance, etc. etc. - as I'm sure you understand.

In general terms, we got most of Shader Model 5 working with the UE4 4.13 release. That supports most of the compute shader passes that had been available as an "experimental" option in 4.12: dynamic exposure, superior reflection environments and for high-end GPUs, high-quality distance-field based shadowing and ambient-occlusion.

Since El Capitan was the target OS for 4.13 it doesn't support tessellation which was added to Metal in macOS Sierra. Two very high-end features, Light Propagation Volumes & Distance Field Global Illumination, are not available either, but AFAIK no-one has wanted to use them on Mac yet. I don't recall anything else substantial missing but there are some small differences such as the Distance Field shadowing & AO passes using a compute-shader cull pass rather than the fragment-shader cull used on other platforms - again because of a feature that wasn't available but has been added in macOS Sierra.

Actually some of the Shader Model 4 passes, like reflections, can be more expensive than their SM5 compute shader equivalents. That being said, from UE4 4.13 the Mac will be more or less the same as Windows. Future UE4 versions that will use the features added in macOS Sierra will be closer still.

#59 Irishman

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 03:18 PM

View Postmarksatt, on 17 September 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

No worries, but I can't really talk about Obduction specifically other than the reiterate what's already been said - it's a Beta, Cyan are working with us, don't generalise based on Beta performance, etc. etc. - as I'm sure you understand.

In general terms, we got most of Shader Model 5 working with the UE4 4.13 release. That supports most of the compute shader passes that had been available as an "experimental" option in 4.12: dynamic exposure, superior reflection environments and for high-end GPUs, high-quality distance-field based shadowing and ambient-occlusion.

Since El Capitan was the target OS for 4.13 it doesn't support tessellation which was added to Metal in macOS Sierra. Two very high-end features, Light Propagation Volumes & Distance Field Global Illumination, are not available either, but AFAIK no-one has wanted to use them on Mac yet. I don't recall anything else substantial missing but there are some small differences such as the Distance Field shadowing & AO passes using a compute-shader cull pass rather than the fragment-shader cull used on other platforms - again because of a feature that wasn't available but has been added in macOS Sierra.

Actually some of the Shader Model 4 passes, like reflections, can be more expensive than their SM5 compute shader equivalents. That being said, from UE4 4.13 the Mac will be more or less the same as Windows. Future UE4 versions that will use the features added in macOS Sierra will be closer still.

Mark,

Does the UT update from this week include UE4 4.13?  https://www.epicgame...d-now-available
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#60 marksatt

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 06:58 PM

View PostIrishman, on 21 September 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

Mark,

Does the UT update from this week include UE4 4.13?  https://www.epicgame...d-now-available

Pass. I'm not up to speed and I don't think the UT team have switched to Metal yet either. Soon I hope.