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#1 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 08:00 AM

I just love the direction the UI has taken in OS X as it continues to become ever more flat and lifeless. I just upgraded my journal app Day One to Day One 2 and the new icon is awesome.

As you can see below, the old icon was a huge distraction and when I would look it I would then feel tired and decide not to bother writing anything in my journal. Now with the new icon designed to promote productivity, I immediately feel so bored I want to start writing in my journal right away just to give me something to do.

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So, I guess the new design is working as intended and making me more productive. No wonder I don't like it.
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#2 the Battle Cat

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 09:52 AM

In Apple's extensive testing all the monkeys and children preferred the new icon 4 to 1.  Most notable was the way the new icon encouraged them to put the iOS device in their mouth.
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#3 Cougar

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 12:49 PM

It seems like they went with an iOS design instead of an OS X one. I actually think Apple did a really good job with the Yosemite icon redesign (except for the folder color). They became stylized while still retaining perspective and shape.

#4 Frigidman™

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 01:01 PM

Its a shame the folder color isnt controlled by that global color change. Like I choose graphite/graphite for the color prefs, it would be nice if those super neon blue folders would gray down with those choices =p

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#5 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 01:57 PM

I suspect what was once known as OS X UI design is being deprecated in favor of a unified look and user experience lest we monkeys become confused by a desktop computer doing what it is capable of. Oh, well. It's not the end of the world certainly but the above example I think does highlight the inevitable shape or flatness if you will of things to come. I wonder what the next OS X will look like and especially the one after that. I should probably look at my iPhone. The answer is probably there.

I had been thinking of a MacBook Air for a next Mac but maybe I'd be happy with an iPad Pro and a keyboard for it if I am going to play games on an XBox One. I can get one of those with AppleCare and the keyboard for around $1,100 I think or maybe it's $1,200. with the aforementioned additions and max storage on the thing. There is a lot of cool games for it actually, including the Enhanced Edition Infinity Engine games, Final Fantasy games, etc. and it sure is portable. That's roughly half the cost of a maxed out MacBook Air with AppleCare I think. Looking at the apps I use, everything I care about has iOS versions too and cloud support for data.

That would be quite a switch I guess after decades now of personal computer use. I wonder if I'd become acclimated to that and like it or not. Once again, once you take AAA gaming out of the equation more possibilities for general computing become interesting. Besides, I am not getting rid of my iMac in all likelihood until it dies although if I was smart I probably would while it is still worth something and just give up on the too many old games I won't live long enough to play anyway. I wish I could experience them all but realistically there's no way which is kind of a drag but what can you do. The time to play those was when they were releasing, not decades later other than some nice remakes for modern systems. In the same way, now is the time to play new stuff with all its awesome bells and whistles not putting it off while mired in yesterday which is something I keep doing for some reason.
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#6 Cougar

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 02:03 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 10 February 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

Its a shame the folder color isnt controlled by that global color change. Like I choose graphite/graphite for the color prefs, it would be nice if those super neon blue folders would gray down with those choices =p

As a graphite user myself I feel like a second-class citizen all the time. Many of Apple's own apps have custom elements that only have blue highlights. And, of course Steam's hacked UI uses (snow leopard style) colored icons.

#7 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 02:16 PM

Steam is really half-assed in the way it was implemented for OS X. It was a very lazy effort that just ignores standards and sticks largely to the way it was implemented for Windows to minimize the work done creating a Mac version obviously. So then you wind up with them tossing icons with scripts to run the games buried where they should not be and a good deal of the time these shortcut icons are screwed up either lacking resources or if they have them they lack a freaking plist so you wind up with a screwed up icon that you have to bother to fix by finding icons and copying over a generic plist and editing it. Talk about not being Mac-like. I am annoyed by irritating bugs that have not been fixed for years and so it seems quite unlikely they ever will be. Here's a favorite of mine: click a link to some site outside of steam. Your default browser opens, you view whatever it is and close it and return to the steam page you were on and click ANYTHING - immediately your browser opens again to the same link as previously. Close it again then and only then does the event register with steam such that the next mouse click does not erroneously launch the browser a second time. That's been in Mac Steam for four years I am aware of. I can reproduce the bug at will. I'm sure they know about it but I guess they are busy doing anything but working on the Mac version of Steam.

I'm glad I've bought a fair number of games elsewhere for Mac so I can skip Steam. This is too bad because I like a fair amount of things about Steam but half-baked software that is not fixed for years really ticks me off each time I confront issues I've seen repeatedly.

If I wind up abandoning traditional computer gaming at some point I will not miss the issues associated with it at all.
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#8 Cougar

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 02:27 PM

Valve needs to hire some actual Mac programmers. And some support staff, but that's a separate issue.

Anyway, this is a steam skin I use for Yosemite spotlight icons: http://fezvrasta.dev...m-Skin-50856162

There's a graphite version in the comments but it only works on retina at the moment.

#9 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 02:31 PM

By the way, I wonder too if Apple is not ahead of the curve in their decision making in a world where it remains entirely possible that computer gaming despite its present popularity will drop off and over a long time become extinct along with home computers as we know them now in favor of dedicated systems that cost substantially less and provide a superior user experience in most ways. As for computing, there is already a significant consumer trend toward relying on smartphones and tablets for typical home computing needs and even notebooks are starting to be threatened by tablets with optional keyboards. I realize that to look around right now this might seem unlikely but I don't think it is given time. As such, I don't think it is all that strange to see Apple going with all integrated GPUs. Depending on how you look at things, their approach could be seen as forward thinking, not lagging behind. They must be doing something right because they can afford to lead rather than follow.

View PostCougar, on 10 February 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

Valve needs to hire some actual Mac programmers. And some support staff, but that's a separate issue.

Anyway, this is a steam skin I use for Yosemite spotlight icons: http://fezvrasta.dev...m-Skin-50856162

There's a graphite version in the comments but it only works on retina at the moment.

Yeah, I don't see Valve doing anything beyond maintenance. It's all about Steam OS and Windows for them now. I think over the long haul Valve is doomed myself but it will take years for that to come about. They've hitched their wagon to a platform that is doomed - the personal computer in consumer environments.
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#10 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 02:40 PM

Well, that's quite enough crystal ball gazing for me today. ha ha!
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#11 macdude22

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 03:26 PM

I'm getting on the crystal ball bandwagon. Not game specific, but relevant given steam and various other games half arsed adherence to Apple design guidelines. I speculate come 10.14 (perhaps earlier) Apple will do away with installer packages, at least the way we think of them. With the implementation of SIP I think that Apple is moving toward an ecosystem where OS X will not execute code that is not signed by an Apple certificate, period. There's lots of open source or home brew projects out there that have unsigned packages. There's lots of poorly coded Applications in my environment, and even more poorly packaged. Repackaging popsnizzlety academic and medical software into deployable forms is my bread and butter. Many Mac games are no exception.

I'm anticipating this future and at work I currently sign everything I use in our management environment.

Lets jump down the rabbit hole even further. What if Apple pushes/mandates the use of .app bundles instead of .pkgs in this theoretical future. Could be a problem for hardware and other tools (xbox 360 open controller driver etc..) but Apple has roadmaps for these functions within their security framework. app bundles are sandboxed in ways that other executable code on the system are not. Lots of packages are packages because they have popsnizzlety licensing subsystems that should be managed via a .plist or something less dum.

I think the future of administrating apple environments is going to be pretty "interesting" over the next 5 years. IMO the "fisher price" ecosystem is a very possible future. And I'm not sure that I care. I'm getting old and becoming that grognard I hated. I just want things to work, and all things considered the closed iOS ecosystem functions pretty well (idiot society never wanting to pay for apps not withstanding). If Apple's heavy handiness were to force developers to be less half arsey about their Mac software then so be it (looking at you DNAstar and Adobe and I dunno those hobos that ported TW2).

Many will lambast this future but to them I say the world of Linux welcomes you with open hatred. (Seriously have you ever gone on a linux forum, 75% of them are grade A rurl pissed off for no reason).

My windows 10 machine has started getting in the habit of doing a dumb memory dump every other time it is booted. Hardware all checks out. Just annoying, and wastes my time. I might let the thing die on the vine (it's got a few years in it yet) and replace the Mac Pro with an iMac one of these days. Simplify my computing/gaming life, iMac, xBox, Nintendo, OGD.
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#12 Cougar

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:16 PM

Wow, this thread got dark, fast.

Just so you know, I have seen the future, and it is filled with an xMac, native Maxwell support, Crossfire/SLI support, Metal 2.0 with all of DX 12's features, Vulkan, too, because why not? and rMBPs with the latest discrete GPUs.

#13 Frigidman™

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:18 PM

I've seen the future, and you guys can see it too. Rent the film "Idiocracy".

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#14 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 05:45 AM

I don't think the future or this thread is dark at all really. I think the future looks great personally. Computing should evolve such that managing the computer itself is as simple and mindless and automatic and bulletproof as is humanly possible to engineer. That is a good thing, not a bad one.

A favorite analogy of mine about this stuff has long been that computer users are like automobile users. They simply want to get in, turn the key and drive. They do not want to know how anything works, only that it does work. The car is just a means to get somewhere. The computer is just a means to do something.

Just because I know how to fix problems on computers does not mean I want to waste a second of my valuable time doing so. I should not need to monitor the system. I should not need ideally to have to tinker with or fix it. I should just be able to turn it on and have an awesome little road trip for myself. That is all.

The beauty of a closed ecosystem and control over it is that it allows the user experience to be improved with consistency, better security, better reliability, basically with less hassle. The trade-offs to have that are worthwhile in my opinion. I think this is why consoles are so successful. They are simple to use and far less troublesome that gaming on a desktop computer. It's a classic case of turn the key and hit the road with no other screwing around needed and it offers this at a fraction of the cost with greater longevity of your investment to boot.

So, specializing in certain areas and locking them down tight is not necessarily evil by any means. I agree with macdude that anyone who is upset by this can have all the freedom and headaches they want in the wonderful and wild world of Linux. I've been there. I found it fun. However, I also used to fix my own cars many years ago and I found that fun too back then. I outgrew that stuff. I've got better things to do with my time than screw around with the operating system as a thing unto itself anymore. That was like a game to me once upon a time. I think it is for a lot of Linux enthusiasts who get off on writing shell scripts to do dumb stuff just because they can and somehow feel empowered by this, thinking themselves much more technical and therefore smarter than other people who do actual work on computers.

That said, I do have to come clean here and admit I am sometimes tempted to install virtual box just to screw around with Linux and see what's new but at least I know enough now to virtualize it if I want to geek around so I can easily delete the entire mess when I am done having my fun. Linux is like an amusement park to me. It's fun to visit for an afternoon but I would never want to live there. The problem with Linux is that it is like the wild west of software development where there is no centralized control. The closest they get to this is various distributions but every one of them is cobbled together from the works in progress of coding cowboys around the world.
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#15 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 06:52 AM

On a related note, I was checking into using a password manager beyond iCloud keychain which does not help me if I reboot to Windows which I still have need of for the time being. I also find the user experience with iCloud keychain to be lacking. So naturally, I checked out the very popular and very highly rated 1Password thinking this will probably be pretty nice although it is rather expensive.

I didn't know whether to be irritated or laugh when I discovered the OS X app could not import Safari passwords. Since the competing Dashlane supposedly has no issues with this it seemed strange that 1Password would. The 1Password forum support solution to this problem is about as unMac-like (is that even a word?) as it gets. You are actually expected first to find this forum post after discovering such a basic feature is missing. Then you learn that while they have done nothing about this themselves, user created shell scripts can solve all your problems and all you have to do is open a terminal window and execute the relevant one for your situation.

Wow.

5 Star App!

Wow.

My reaction after a couple of "Wow's" out loud was to look up how to properly remove the thing and do so. I am not going to bother with that and hope it works and I am certainly not going to manually enter every login I have when a competing product automates this process. At least they claim to. I will be finding out about that next. Unfortunately, while this product (Dashlane) looks good to me for a variety of reasons including some features lacking in 1Password, they want an annual subscription to the tune of 40 bucks a year although it does cover installing it wherever you want supporting OS X, iOS and Windows.
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#16 Frigidman™

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 07:58 AM

I print all my passwords out in a booklet, and stick it in my pocket. Its as cross-platform as it gets! Even works while talking to someone over the phone while away from your computer. Works when the power is out! No internet downtime affects it either. And the overall cost is pretty darn cheap.

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#17 Frost

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 12:58 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 11 February 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

I think this is why consoles are so successful. They are simple to use and far less troublesome that gaming on a desktop computer. It's a classic case of turn the key and hit the road with no other screwing around needed and it offers this at a fraction of the cost with greater longevity of your investment to boot.

Well, this was true up till this last console generation. You can get the most barebones gaming PC ever and it'll game just as well for about the same price as the current consoles. And Valve has come a long way with Steam Big Picture since they first debuted it. It's every bit as easy to use as a console now, or moreso in the case of the counterintuitive Tiles, Ads, and Lag clusterfrak that is my Xbox 360's interface these days. Load up a game, start it up, play. You can even connect your choice of controller incase you hate one manufacturer's design.

The only time you have to muck about with a game generally is when it's getting really long in the tooth. But considering the console answer to that is you just can't play it anymore without old hardware, I think that's an acceptable tradeoff.

Probably no coincidence this is also the console generation where PC gaming revenue is pulling ahead either. ;)
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#18 macdude22

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 01:23 PM

Until windows popsnizzles the bed. Like. It. Always. Does. Looking at you windows 10 box that was running gr8 up until you weren't and then you were again while i took a popsnizzle. WAT R YOU DOING WANDOWS.

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 11 February 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:


I didn't know whether to be irritated or laugh when I discovered the OS X app could not import Safari passwords. Since the competing Dashlane supposedly has no issues with this it seemed strange that 1Password would. The 1Password forum support solution to this problem is about as unMac-like (is that even a word?) as it gets. You are actually expected first to find this forum post after discovering such a basic feature is missing. Then you learn that while they have done nothing about this themselves, user created shell scripts can solve all your problems and all you have to do is open a terminal window and execute the relevant one for your situation.


FWIW Lastpass imports safari passwords, is 12 bucks a year, and cross platform. It was recently bought by logmein which is frightening, but so far there have not been any "logmein"esc changes to it so I'm sticking with it for now. IMO it's not only the best password manager out there but the most reasonably priced. Plus I got a couple years premium left. I bought like 10 years wayyyyyy back cuz I thought they would eventually raise their price but they have stuck with the reasonable pricing.

Am really keeping an eye on them after being bought by logmein tho. Those guyz can be sketchy.
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#19 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 03:04 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 11 February 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

Until windows popsnizzles the bed. Like. It. Always. Does. Looking at you windows 10 box that was running gr8 up until you weren't and then you were again while i took a popsnizzle. WAT R YOU DOING WANDOWS.



FWIW Lastpass imports safari passwords, is 12 bucks a year, and cross platform. It was recently bought by logmein which is frightening, but so far there have not been any "logmein"esc changes to it so I'm sticking with it for now. IMO it's not only the best password manager out there but the most reasonably priced. Plus I got a couple years premium left. I bought like 10 years wayyyyyy back cuz I thought they would eventually raise their price but they have stuck with the reasonable pricing.

Am really keeping an eye on them after being bought by logmein tho. Those guyz can be sketchy.

Lastpass is exceptional, mostly due to the price. I've been using it for years on both my computers and phone/ipad.
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#20 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 03:05 PM

View PostFrost, on 11 February 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

Well, this was true up till this last console generation. You can get the most barebones gaming PC ever and it'll game just as well for about the same price as the current consoles.

I've often noted people say this but in reality I have to disagree. You aren't going to get a complete PC with a 1 TB hybrid drive complete with operating system and a high quality controller as well for 500 bucks which is what an XBox One Elite will run you at full retail and no assembly is required for the XBox One which instantly means it wins for a large number of people who do not build their own computers. People who are into PC gaming I think sometimes have the erroneous belief that everyone operates at their level but I don't think that is true and I think a look at the Steam hardware survey results would probably bear that out although I have not looked at them for some time now. In the past though I noted that people in the majority had nothing approaching the sort of systems people often base arguments upon when discussing the merits of PC gaming vs this, that or the other option. The arguments can be valid for those owning the hardware they speak of sure, but they are a minority I think. I mean, how many people are gaming on a Falcon Northwest with a Titan X in it, you know? I don't think very many at all are in contrast to the entire installed base.

To beat the XBox One experience you'd need a PC that can deliver HD graphics to a screen as big as the typical living room television at stable frame rates with settings on high all of the time. What home brew PC collection of parts including a quality controller, let's just say an XBox controller for comparison which takes away 50 bucks I think off the top leaving 450 for the rest of the hardware is possible? I honestly think that is a pretty tall order. Even a midrange video card is going to eat half that budget instantly. How much is a 1 TB hybrid drive going for nowadays I wonder? You'll need a good enough PSU for whatever GPU, etc. you get. You need a case. You need a mouse and keyboard and I'm sure you don't want popsnizzlety ones I would hope. They don't have to be gaming gear but crappy ones I don't think count either. Then there is the memory, today I think 8 gigs is the minimum and is not expensive but not free either. Naturally one needs a motherboard with onboard ethernet at least and a decent CPU to stick in it along with the other stuff. I forget now if I already accounted for a case to put these top shelf components into. Then there is fun of assemblage and hoping it all works first try and we don't want to forget the cost of an OEM copy of Windows too.

Are you sure that even at the minimum performance specs you can really pull this off for 500 bucks? What about the monitor you'll need for it?

By the way, I picked the most expensive console option I am aware of for this comparison to the cheapest PC option which I cannot imagine being capable of the same performance and user experience at all. The thing is, I could go down and forego the hybrid drive and I think go with 500 gigs local storage and then I am at $350. I believe which is even harder to beat considering that it still provides the same performance overall as the more expensive option other than initial loading times. Subtracting the controller, how are you going to home build a PC with a $200. GPU in it minimum and $150 for everything else and you still have nothing to display it on. You can't manage a PC just using Steam's Big Picture so far as I know. You are gonna need a monitor sometimes too, like to install Windows for openers.

You mentioned the issue of playing older titles requiring an old system. I don't see that as a negative. You maintain perfect compatibility doing that. This never consistently happens in the PC world because things change there. How often do you see people having issues because they have AMD or they have Nvidia or whatever? That does not happen on console. What is more and what is significant when evaluating cost over time is that unlike with a PC, a console needs no upgrades over its lifetime to continue to provide the same experience with games that it did brand new. With a PC, you are minimally looking at a GPU upgrade expenditure every 3 years max and when you do that you may need a PSU upgrade to support it. On top of that, you may need a motherboard upgrade depending and if you do then you very likely need a new CPU and RAM too. That has happened to me in the past. The desire to upgrade the GPU on a PC I had some years back led to needing to gut the whole damned system. This simply does not happen with consoles. How many years did XBox 360 last? I think they just had the 10th anniversary of the thing and it is still supported although naturally on the way out at this point. That's a pretty damned good value and it is easy and cheap to replace an out of date system to play old titles if you want to and the one you have finally breaks. My PS2 is still going strong. I was playing US Navy Seals on it just the other day along with SSX 3. Works great. It even still looks pretty good and both games were widescreen on my television too. Since I am much farther away then I would be with a PC, the old graphics don't look nearly as bad as games the same age would in my face on a PC. Another plus!

Don't get me wrong. I know gaming on a high quality PC rig is a great experience but it is a costly one for what I consider to be the real deal and it does have maintenance costs as well. It also does have issues with games that a closed environment on a console does not. It is virtually impossible to QA software for all the PCs under the sun as well as it is one single closed hardware system. There's just no getting around that and so you have stuff like Arkham Knight happen in the PC and Mac world.

And again there's the whole issue of plug one box in and play or assemble the above and hope. I have been there and done that like most of you I imagine and even when I have done everything right I have encountered issues, the need to return something, etc. It's not exactly a rose garden every time even when you know what you are doing. It is always good fun too reading instructions translated by some guy working for a motherboard company like MSI or whoever in Indonesia or whatnot and trying to discern just what exactly they were meaning to tell you in english. Maybe things have improved on that front over the years. For me, they are just distant bad memories I never want to revisit again and I built every one of my PCs after blowing the money on an AST/Premium 286 (PC Mag Editor's Choice!) many moons ago.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell