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Apple Support is Top-Notch


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#41 Frost

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 02:50 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 10 February 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

Apple stuff is designed to not be user serviceable on purpose to protect you from yourself. You should be grateful. Now, just let them help you and stop being so damned difficult.

I really hate this about modern Apple hardware. With the exception of the snow globe iMacs and non-unibody MacBook Pros, almost every Mac that Apple made up through 2012 was relatively easy to service. Even the Titanium PowerBook G4s and the G5s, which seem like they'd be tough at first glance, are actually just a long series of tab A goes in slot B and screws 1 through 7 go in holes 1 through 7.

Current Macs? Everything is frakking glued and soldered? It's like Apple's endgame for servicing Macs is for them to be thrown away and a new one bought.
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#42 macdude22

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 03:12 PM

View PostFrost, on 11 February 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

Current Macs? Everything is frakking glued and soldered? It's like Apple's endgame for servicing Macs is for them to be thrown away and a new one bought.

I used to think that but they service side they are placing more focus on on site repair (on site being genius bar/AASP etc..). It used to be for iOS devices almost everything was a swap and return to the depot but now there is a huge focus on on site repair. Supposed to "help give the customer greater confidence in the original product and a smoother service experience." Ok, that's all well and good except I look like a damn fool getting a 6s open.
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#43 Cougar

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 03:35 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 11 February 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

Ok, that's all well and good except I look like a damn fool getting a 6s open.

Well I got my 6 plus open to replace the battery, got three impossibly small screws out and then proceeded to strip the last two. They ain't going anywhere. It probably didn't help that the screwdriver ifixit gave you is garbage.

#44 macdude22

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 04:12 PM

View PostCougar, on 11 February 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

Well I got my 6 plus open to replace the battery, got three impossibly small screws out and then proceeded to strip the last two. They ain't going anywhere. It probably didn't help that the screwdriver ifixit gave you is garbage.

These are my best friends working on modern Apple hardware. Using Apple approved tools. And Apple service guides.

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#45 Cougar

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 07:02 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 11 February 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

These are my best friends working on modern Apple hardware. Using Apple approved tools. And Apple service guides.

The screws that are stripped are impossibly tiny...a 2.3 mm Phillips #00 and 3.1 mm Phillips #00 screw. I don't see how screw pliers would work. I called an iPhone repair place and the guy said there's no special way to get them out but he could give it a shot, so I'm going to try that tomorrow. Failing that, iFixit suggested using superglue. lol.

#46 Cougar

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 12:27 AM

Well, got the screws out, but the damn adhesive broke off and I have no hair dryer to melt it. Argh.

Edit: well, the battery was installed, phone booted up fine...realized I forgot to put back the unnecessary shield that goes over the connectors...installed that, then the phone became a garbled mess. AHHHH. I've repeatedly reset the connector, same result. I think I must have damaged it somehow.

If your iPhone battery dies, PAY APPLE THE DAMN $79.

#47 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 07:36 AM

View PostCougar, on 13 February 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

Well, got the screws out, but the damn adhesive broke off and I have no hair dryer to melt it. Argh.

Edit: well, the battery was installed, phone booted up fine...realized I forgot to put back the unnecessary shield that goes over the connectors...installed that, then the phone became a garbled mess. AHHHH. I've repeatedly reset the connector, same result. I think I must have damaged it somehow.

If your iPhone battery dies, PAY APPLE THE DAMN $79.

Well, I know it doesn't help anything much but I'm sorry to hear you've been having so much trouble. :(
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#48 macdude22

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 09:02 AM

View PostCougar, on 11 February 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

The screws that are stripped are impossibly tiny...a 2.3 mm Phillips #00 and 3.1 mm Phillips #00 screw. I don't see how screw pliers would work. I called an iPhone repair place and the guy said there's no special way to get them out but he could give it a shot, so I'm going to try that tomorrow. Failing that, iFixit suggested using superglue. lol.

I wasn't saying they would help in this situation (the blue pack of straight extractors maybe, but I've had mixed luck with them), just that I have to use these at least once every other repair I do. I do in house Apple Authorized repairs at my organization. I'm suggesting that even for people using Apple's service guides and Apple's tools Apple's gal damn micro screws made out of butter get stripped. That. fraking. SSD. T5. Is. Made. Of. Butter.
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#49 the Battle Cat

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 10:10 AM

They should make cars out of butter, think of all the lives that could be saved in a crash.  Splut, into butter you go.  Nobody ever has been cut, impaled, or crushed by butter.  As an added advantage, Instead of the jaws of life all you would need is a fat lady with a piece of toast.
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#50 Cougar

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 07:36 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 13 February 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:



Well, I know it doesn't help anything much but I'm sorry to hear you've been having so much trouble. :(

Thanks. My screen is usable now, but still has some lines...I apparently damaged the connector, and the only solution is a new screen. $130. Getting a repair place to put it in this time. Oh well, lesson learned.

#51 Cougar

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 09:38 PM

Okay, well, this is turning out to be far more of a nightmare than I could have possibly imagined. Got my screen replaced today, but I noticed there's a black mark on the screen. Hard to see, but it's there. It was the last replacement they had, but they promised they'd get more in later this week. Okay, I can live with that.

But wait. Touch ID doesn't work either. Luckily I noticed this while I was in the repair shop. I'd heard about Error 53, (and so did they––they actually brought it up) but they swore it's an OEM part. I went home, chatted with an Apple rep, who suggested restoring the phone––BAM. Error 53, literally the worst thing that can happen to your iPhone.

Hopefully, the screen replacement that I get will fix the problem. If not, I'll demand a refund and give apple whatever they want to sort it out.

#52 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 01:09 AM

That really sucks. :(

Good luck and I hope if you do need to go the Apple route the final cost isn't too painful after everything else.
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#53 Cougar

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 01:27 AM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 16 February 2016 - 01:09 AM, said:

That really sucks. :(

Good luck and I hope if you do need to go the Apple route the final cost isn't too painful after everything else.

Thanks. I am fully expecting that they will tell me it's an OOW replacement, $329, after the $100+ I've already spent. I have a friend who wants to ditch her iPhone to save on data, and she said she'd loan it to me til the iPhone 7 came out. So I may do that. Bu it's white, though. Eeew.

What really kills me is that the apple rep seemed to already know that it would get bricked: "I was afraid that that might happen." Well, then why did you tell me to do it?? I can't get to the Apple Store for a week! I emailed Tim Cook, expressing my displeasure at Error 53. Maybe he'll save the day.

#54 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 12:14 PM

Yeah, having read a little about Error 53 just the other day I could see on the one hand why they wanted to make getting at sensitive data impossible now that there is Apple Pay in the picture. On the other hand, there should have been fair warning in advance here minimally. I don't believe there was but maybe I am wrong? I hope they find a better way to provide the same level of safety while working out some way to properly support 3rd party repairs and even instances of minor physical damage to the iPhone that can trigger this apparently such that legitimate user recovery is possible. I forget now but does this literally destroy the iPhone beyond repair? I hope not. That seems pretty incredible if it does.
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#55 Cougar

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 07:42 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 16 February 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

Yeah, having read a little about Error 53 just the other day I could see on the one hand why they wanted to make getting at sensitive data impossible now that there is Apple Pay in the picture. On the other hand, there should have been fair warning in advance here minimally. I don't believe there was but maybe I am wrong? I hope they find a better way to provide the same level of safety while working out some way to properly support 3rd party repairs and even instances of minor physical damage to the iPhone that can trigger this apparently such that legitimate user recovery is possible. I forget now but does this literally destroy the iPhone beyond repair? I hope not. That seems pretty incredible if it does.

They say it is a security measure, but it doesn't make sense for a few reasons. The first is it doesn't happen right away--If Apple hadn't told me to try restoring the phone, I would still have it here working, just without TouchID. The second is that there is no reason why they can't just disable TouchID and leave the rest of your phone alone.

And no, there was no warning. Just restore, Error 53.

It doesn't "destroy" the phone, but apparently Apple has refused to fix them, stating that the only recourse is to buy a new one. That may be changing. What I am fairly certain happened in my case is that the flex cable that goes from the home button to the motherboard was damaged during the course of repair. I am not sure how I am going to convince them to just swap out that cable...they are probably going to tell me I am either SOL or they're going to charge me the full $329 repair cost.

#56 macdude22

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 07:48 AM

Apple is going to do the full repair or bust. I guarantee that. You can't even process a partial repair like you're asking within Apple's logistic system.

So I have had the opportunity to meet with Apple security engineers a couple times as a function of my job. (FYI, you don't want to know how insecure most medical devices are, oy, makes them wifi lightbulbs look like fort knox). I think I have some insight into this particular design decision.

The CPU and sensor are paired because you don't want to send the sensor data unencrypted across the wire where it's then subject to spoofing/MITM attacks. This sounds dumb but there have been demonstrated attacks on iOS devices by tying directly into the various interconnects. During read from the secure enclave the unit enters a special trusted secure mode that is inaccessible to the kernel and installed software. This is part of Apple's secure boot chain and runtime security.

https://www.apple.co...urity_Guide.pdf

This is not as in-depth as a presentation I attended a while back but as good as you're likely to get publicly facing.

99.9% of us just say. popsnizzle son, re-pair sensor and device and get on with your life. Well you 99.9% probably had a regular sensor installed but the device can't be 100% sure of this. Maybe the sensor includes some "extras" to try and get it to divulge encrypted information or perform other attacks against the device. It is well known that state sponsored attacks include intercepting devices in transit and installing monitoring hardware/software on them.

http://blogs.cisco.c...ty/synful-knock

So yea we are not talking about your run of the mill attacks but highly sophisitcated, expensive attacks. Think state sponsored CIA NSA KGB sort of attacks. Given Apple's place in the market they are legitimately concerned about these sorts of issues and the protection of user data.

Not replacing the sensor per Apple's guidelines in a controlled situation is a poor decision. I'm 100% behind this requirement in this type of device given the pressures of the modern world.

Now bricking the device with error 53, I'm less enthused about that. I think it's probably appropriate that when the device detects that the sensor may have been compromised TouchID should be disabled. The device could/should fall back to pincode entry and report an error.

I expect that Apple's argument would be in a situation where the sensor/other hardware has been compromised unlocking the device could be bad. If an attack device has been installed instead of a regular sensor once unlocked this device could use code injection or other exploits (the inevitable buffer overrun errors) to attack the device in a decrypted state. Apple has incredibly smart people working for them. I think in this situation Apple has chosen that if the sensor isn't trusted, the boot chain isn't trusted, the security process isn't trusted, the secure enclave isn't trusted, we can't ensure the integrity of this device. In this state malware or other processes could be running and extract user data (perhaps stored for future retrieval).  

This a completely legitimate viewpoint to have, and also overkill for 99% of their user population.

Perhaps a compromise solution would be to sell a device that bricks itself in the case of integrity loss to organizations and users that want/require that level of security and the rest of us mortals could buy a model that simply outputs an error state in the case of the integrity loss, leaving it up to us to make the call. Given Apple's history I don't think this is likely to happen.

That's not to say there isn't a business case for apple wanting repair revenue but I don't think it is anywhere close to a deciding factor for Apple.
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#57 macdude22

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 08:17 AM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 16 February 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

Yeah, having read a little about Error 53 just the other day I could see on the one hand why they wanted to make getting at sensitive data impossible now that there is Apple Pay in the picture. On the other hand, there should have been fair warning in advance here minimally. I don't believe there was but maybe I am wrong?

Apple's would probably assert that if the device had been repaired at an AASP with Apple parts following the Apple Service Guide there never would have been an Error 53. Is that acceptable, well that's debatable.
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#58 macdude22

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 08:30 AM

This just released open letter from Apple seems an incredible coincidence.

http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
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#59 the Battle Cat

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 10:18 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 17 February 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:


The jackboots march closer every day.
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#60 Cougar

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 12:37 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 17 February 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

This just released open letter from Apple seems an incredible coincidence.

http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/

Wait, are you saying this has to do with Error 53? It's because they just got hit with that court order.

View Postmacdude22, on 17 February 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

Apple is going to do the full repair or bust. I guarantee that. You can't even process a partial repair like you're asking within Apple's logistic system.

Because of the scary reports, I asked two different apple reps this question. They insisted the $329 was only the *maximum* amount, and the actual cost of repairs could only be given after they look at it. I really hope you're wrong or I am screwed. BattleCat, can I open a "Cougar's new iPhone" fund on here? Now accepting donations. ;)