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What do you think about the iPad Pro?


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#21 Janichsan

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 02:19 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 17 November 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

Ars Technicas review shows that the iPad Pro outperforms the low end Macbook by a good margin in those synthetic tests.
Well, let's be honest: any toaster could outperform the low end Macbook.

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#22 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 08:09 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 17 November 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

Full power yes, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple try and go for mid-end ARM chips in the near future. As it is now, I don't really see a reason not to go A10X in the Macbook.

That would require a full re-write at minimum some updates of nearly all software made of OS X. That's the reason we won't see the switch to ARM unless they are willing to fully commit across the full product line.
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#23 Cougar

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 02:12 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 17 November 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

That would require a full re-write at minimum some updates of nearly all software made of OS X. That's the reason we won't see the switch to ARM unless they are willing to fully commit across the full product line.

That's what people said about switching to Intel, and it was later revealed that OS X was running on intel from day 1. (And even before that, there was Star Trek.)

I would wager quite heavily that there is an ARM Mac running OS X somewhere within Apple. It's not whether they would be willing to commit--it's third parties and consumers. Windows on ARM was quite the dud.

#24 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 02:30 PM

View PostCougar, on 17 November 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

That's what people said about switching to Intel, and it was later revealed that OS X was running on intel from day 1. (And even before that, there was Star Trek.)

I would wager quite heavily that there is an ARM Mac running OS X somewhere within Apple. It's not whether they would be willing to commit--it's third parties and consumers. Windows on ARM was quite the dud.

I'm talking about third party software. Apple switching over OS X and their apps to ARM is only a small portion of the work. Convincing thousands of developers of games, utilities, tweaks, drivers, etc. that its worth them spending extra time and money updating their apps to support ARM OS X is the hard part.

Also - if they switched to ARM say goodbye to running windows on your Mac.
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#25 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 02:51 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 17 November 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

That would require a full re-write at minimum some updates of nearly all software made of OS X. That's the reason we won't see the switch to ARM unless they are willing to fully commit across the full product line.
Just a simple recompile really, with minor adjustments, in most cases.

View PostCougar, on 17 November 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

I would wager quite heavily that there is an ARM Mac running OS X somewhere within Apple. It's not whether they would be willing to commit--it's third parties and consumers. Windows on ARM was quite the dud.
iOS and OSX share a *lot* of the same code, so the essentials are already running on ARM.

View PostSneaky Snake, on 17 November 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

Also - if they switched to ARM say goodbye to running windows on your Mac.
Windows RT runs on ARM.
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#26 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 03:17 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 17 November 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

Windows RT runs on ARM.

It is, so I suppose you could technically install Windows RT natively via bootcamp, but Windows RT doesn't run hardly any Windows software. The main purpose of bootcamp (running Windows apps/games that aren't compatible with Mac) would be lost.
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#27 Cougar

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 04:51 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 17 November 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

I'm talking about third party software. Apple switching over OS X and their apps to ARM is only a small portion of the work. Convincing thousands of developers of games, utilities, tweaks, drivers, etc. that its worth them spending extra time and money updating their apps to support ARM OS X is the hard part.


In that case, I agree, but it would still be possible, I think. The Mac is much healthier than it was during the last transition.

That said, the Intel transition worked because 1) there was a sort-of-working emulation layer and 2) the advantages--X86 compatibility and a great increase in speed--were large and quite evident for most consumers (also, they didn't really have a choice--PPC was a dead end. That "PowerBook G5" just never came.) I don't see ARM having the same appeal, even if there's some sort of emulation layer. Better battery life? We all want our iPhones to have better battery life, but laptops are not as bad (and there are better ways to get more battery life, "I love thinness" Apple.) And performance would be similar or worse.

#28 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 01:27 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 17 November 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

It is, so I suppose you could technically install Windows RT natively via bootcamp, but Windows RT doesn't run hardly any Windows software. The main purpose of bootcamp (running Windows apps/games that aren't compatible with Mac) would be lost.
I don't think you'd want to buy an ARM Mac to game AAA WIndows games the next 10 years.. :P But yes, some software would be missing I assume. I don't know what the limitations are of Windows RT as such. But in any event, most of Windows also runs on ARM, so if there was a huge need, Microsoft could somewhat easily have Windows Next run on it.
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#29 Jan

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 12:27 PM

Apple doesn't care about the ability to run Windows on a Mac. Why would they? They sell approximately 5 million Macs per quarter and make all their money with iPhones and iPads. iOS is the game nowadays and it runs everything despite a handful of pro apps from Adobe. The A9X chip in the iPad Pro is a power house and offers more than enough performance for 99% of usage scenarios. People like us are the minority in the computing world. There are not many people out there editing 4K videos professionally or rendering complex 3D models. Most people need mail, a web browser, Microsoft office and a few web clients for SAP or Oracle. Any iPhone released in the past 4 years could run those applications. If Apple offers an external display for iOS devices and you conncect your Bluetooth keyboard and mouse you basically have a Mac. If it runs ARM or Intel chips doesn't matter at all if it gets your job done.
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#30 macdude22

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 12:31 PM

View PostJan, on 19 November 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

Apple doesn't care about the ability to run Windows on a Mac. Why would they?

Our apple rep blimps Windows on Mac all the time. Best small form factor windows box you can get.

All our digital grease boards are minis strapped to the back. Granted if Apple started making whatever that didn't run windows we'd just buy some shoddy dulls but those hungry salesmen are happy to bill them as real nice windows boxes.
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#31 Jan

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 12:51 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 19 November 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

Our apple rep blimps Windows on Mac all the time. Best small form factor windows box you can get.

All our digital grease boards are minis strapped to the back. Granted if Apple started making whatever that didn't run windows we'd just buy some shoddy dulls but those hungry salesmen are happy to bill them as real nice windows boxes.

But does that really matter if you look at the big picture? It's all about mobile and the cloud nowadays. We all carry a powerful computer with us all the time -- in our pockets. Let's be honest: We work for big fortune 500 companies and most of our clients in Marketing, Sales and other departments only use a handful of applications, a lot of them are web-based anyway. Many of them use an iPhone and also have an iPad at home. If their IT department told them: "Hey, you're getting those shiny new Retina displays from Apple with the iPhone dock and a Bluetooth keyboard. Just stick in your phone and you're set". Some would moan for two or three days and then just move on. I don't believe that Windows is that important anymore and Microsoft knows that. It was a wise, but very late decision to put Office on Android and iOS. The smartphone is the Swiss knife of the digital age and it's only just begun. We as "power users" might not like it, but it's the truth for a very large and growing number of people.
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#32 Frigidman™

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 01:11 PM

Well the people who actually DO the real work in this world, need more than some hammy mobile device. But if Apple wants to pivot their business model towards what makes the most money (selling toys to the masses), then more power to them. Some other company will step in and make the real computers for the professionals.

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#33 Jan

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 01:41 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 19 November 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

Well the people who actually DO the real work in this world, need more than some hammy mobile device. But if Apple wants to pivot their business model towards what makes the most money (selling toys to the masses), then more power to them. Some other company will step in and make the real computers for the professionals.

Am I not 'professional' if I create a new brand name or write an essay with iA Writer on my iPhone for a living? Not everyone needs a 12-core Mac Pro to do professional work. It's not about the tools, it's about the work you do and the problems you solve. My point is that it's 100 % possible to work professionally on an iPad Pro or Surface -- at least for a certain target group. Most enterprise customers only need Excel, Word, a mail client and a capable web browser. There are more than enough file browsers available for iOS as well.
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#34 the Battle Cat

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:53 PM

My wife is getting an iPad Pro as soon as she can think of something to inscribe on the back of it.  My suggestion was "This side down" but she wants something more poetic, meaningful or profound for some reason.  Woman, ya gotta stick with the basics, deal in facts and reality.  That inscription is going be covered up 99.99% of the time.  That's no place to be posting profundities.

So anyway, I'll maybe report back after I've used it a couple of times.  I hate her second generation iPad, it's slow to the point of running backwards and it doesn't register finger actions very well.  I don't use it anymore.
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#35 macdude22

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 03:19 PM

Go with a classic like "I Pooped" or "Did you fart?"
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#36 Frigidman™

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:04 PM

View PostJan, on 19 November 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

Am I not 'professional' if I create a new brand name or write an essay with iA Writer on my iPhone for a living? Not everyone needs a 12-core Mac Pro to do professional work. It's not about the tools, it's about the work you do and the problems you solve. My point is that it's 100 % possible to work professionally on an iPad Pro or Surface -- at least for a certain target group. Most enterprise customers only need Excel, Word, a mail client and a capable web browser. There are more than enough file browsers available for iOS as well.

I wasn't attacking you.

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#37 Cougar

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 06:02 PM

View PostJan, on 19 November 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

Apple doesn't care about the ability to run Windows on a Mac. Why would they? They sell approximately 5 million Macs per quarter and make all their money with iPhones and iPads.

Most computer companies would kill to have their success in the $1k+ computer market. It's still a sizable business. Doesn't matter that it's dwarfed by iOS.

#38 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 08:12 AM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 19 November 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

My wife is getting an iPad Pro as soon as she can think of something to inscribe on the back of it.  My suggestion was "This side down" but she wants something more poetic, meaningful or profound for some reason.  Woman, ya gotta stick with the basics, deal in facts and reality.  That inscription is going be covered up 99.99% of the time.  That's no place to be posting profundities.
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#39 the Battle Cat

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 11:09 AM

All good suggestions but she went with "MY WINDOW ON THE WORLD"... yes it was all caps.
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#40 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 11:37 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 21 November 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

"FROG BLAST THE VENT CORE!!!!"

Sounds like a kinky activity for after hours. I'll have to ask the wife what she thinks about it.
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