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#1 the Battle Cat

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 07:38 PM

Not really evil but some where on the slider bar between evil and creepy right now and it's for no good reason.  It's from the reflex of old patterns of thought, but it intriqued me so I'm sharing it.  I'm on my mid 2010 Mac Pro running Windows 10 right now logged into a Mac gaming forum.  It's like I'm living inside the wall and there is a small hole where I can see you all.  Like I'm in a Stephen King movie.  Anyway thought I'd try to rub that booger off on you because it seems to be stuck to my finger.

When I bootcamped I expected to be thrown back to some modernized version of Windows NT, a hellish environment I once developed apps in.  Yes, I've been to hell and back, it tends to be a theme in my life, my only complaint is I don't like your mother's cooking.  This OS works just fine, still learning where all the levers and switches are, but this is a pretty decent set up for me as a gamer.

I haven't had any hardware problems related to the Windows OS, as opposed to how gimped some things are for me in OSX.  I have all the drivers I need to make them come to life.  Is it still traitorous if your treason is for a beautiful woman?
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#2 Janichsan

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:23 AM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 13 September 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Is it still traitorous if your treason is for a beautiful woman?
Yes. :P

But seriously, Windows really has become much better in the last years. I have yet to install Windows 10, but Windows 7 and 8.1 really were quite good. However, that beautiful woman can show her ugly side at the latest when you either have to fiddle with some slightly more advanced features or when it comes to troubleshoot problems. OS X is still more logical, less obtuse and ultimately more user-friendly in these regards.

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#3 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 07:56 AM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 13 September 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Is it still traitorous if your treason is for a beautiful woman?

Traitorous? Yes, it is. Understandable? Absolutely.

All is forgiven. :)
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#4 Frigidman™

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 08:16 AM

Welcome to what I've been feeling for the past few years ;) I maintain all this mac gaming stuff, yet I secretly slink off to my windows OS for playing games. I have not really played a mac game in os x for ages now other than trying to limp through some casual game while on vacation and all I had was my MBP.

One thing I do seem to like about Win7, even though its bloated... things just seem to run. I've launched decade old games on it, new games, middle aged games, they just seem to run. Whereas all this ranting I see from people who updated the next small step of OSX and suddenly half their apps no longer work. Maybe I'm just lucky on Win7 and don't come across those issues, but it sure does seem nice to basically ignore all the system requirements when snagging a game. Haha.

Although there is one thing to get used too, almost every game has some tweak or adjustment that can be done. Or it has a glitch that there is a fix for out there. Just have to do a lot of forum googling, and bam, a fix exists. Usually though its all because the game was just built with issues, had nothing to do with the Windows it was running on. I think when games get ported to Mac, those issues get accounted for by the mac porting house. Might be why when games come out simultaneous for mac/pc, that it comes with a lot of headaches and brokenness.

Anyway I'm getting off track.

Welcome to the dark side :)

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"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#5 macdude22

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:10 PM

Dun matter to me. I treat wandows like a game console. Does one thing for me. Plays games. I used to have a mac and a console. Now I have a Mac and wandows.

And also some consoles.

And some Ds's.

Probably some dice on my desk too but I digress.

There's no single thing to solve the game performance issue under OS X, combination of things probably need to happen. Hopefully Apple puts some more priority on this in the future, but I don't really see it. They are real keen on targeting that casual market right now, and all things considers those sorts of games run just dandy.




And then that time last night that steam went ape popsnizzle until a reinstall and I nearly threw the PC out the door. :cool:
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#6 Frigidman™

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:41 PM

Speaking of ape popsnizzleting... I wasted a lot of time recovering from some new game on my win7 crashing so hard it bashed my entire color profiling for desktop and gaming. I had to go back to a system restore point! It was so jacked up. Needless to say, I uninstalled that game and told the developers to go F themselves for making a crappy game like that.

So.... windows is not without its pains sometimes.

Then again, my OSX install has decidedly gotten a bit 'rough' and is needing a full re-install too because a core service keeps crashing for no good reason.

*sigh* computers these days *sigh*

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"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#7 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:54 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 13 September 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Yes, I've been to hell and back

Cue Sabaton's heavy metal To Hell and Back track.


Been there, done that (the Windows thing, not the Hellish one). Now:
- I seldom boot in OS X
- My default boot disk is the Win 10 SSD partition.
- I converted all my HFS+ partitions to NTFS (except the OS X boot partitions of course), thanks in no small part to MacDrive's upgrade for Win 10 support being much too expensive for my taste
- My next "Mac" will probably be a hackintosh, the day my trusty Mac Pro will be too slow. Why? Because of Apple killing the Mac Pro (the real one, I mean).
- Yosemite has been my worst Mac experience stability wise since classical Mac OS 9 and before.
- One of the rare Apple apps I liked (iPhoto) is being retired and replaced with the awful Photos. So Picasa here I come.
- El Capitan will ship at the end of this month, and I don't really care. I'll upgrade, sure, out of curiosity, and will return to Win 10 probably.
- I don't have any iOS device (I'm an Android guy), so the OS X/iOS integration stuff is of no use to me.
- I've used my first Mac, a Plus, about 30 years ago, and have fond memories of Mac computing, but Microsoft has come a long way and Apple is heading to a blind alley IMHO.

#8 Matt Diamond

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 06:55 PM

Apple's UI has stumbled, that's for sure. Nowhere more than in iTunes.

But my praise for Windows will be faint for the time being. For one thing I have trouble forgiving them for all the wasted hours and frustration over the years. But now that they have a semi-decent computing experience and have finally lowered the price, their new business model seems to be they want to track you like Google, & Facebook. (Well not quite as bad as them; G & FB try to track you no matter where you go or what platform or browser you use. I don't see Bing buttons everywhere yet.)

Apple thankfully is not moving in that direction. iOS9 will be worth upgrading to just for ability to block trackers. But with no user-upgradeable Mac Pro tower on the horizon, yeah, I'll see how games play on Windows.

Ironically, as I start to use Windows at home for games, at work I am now able to do meaningful work for clients on Mac OS without spending most of my time in a Windows VM.
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#9 Whaleman

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 07:12 AM

I got my PGC (Personal Gaming Console, ain't no fricking computer) a few years back when I no longer could afford or even defend getting a new mac since I would be upgrading just for games. Up until that point it had always gone hand in hand with needing more hardware for work, but since my models use a very linear and single core approach all I need is a few cores and high frequency and there just hadn't been any progress there, so I got myself a Windows canister. Now I also have a Linux drive on it to help me run models in matlab in parallel to on my Macs, but I still do all my normal work on the macs and game when it's possible (indie titles and older games).
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

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#10 Jan

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 11:44 AM

Sometimes I ask myself why this site is (still) called Inside Mac Games. :unsure:
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#11 Whaleman

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 01:58 PM

Attached File  macgames.jpg   186.65K   24 downloads

Well.... here's one reason :) Used to be a lot more, but I've uninstalled the majority to save HD space and sanity. Ran out of the latter ages ago.
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

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#12 the Battle Cat

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 08:35 AM

View PostJan, on 15 September 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Sometimes I ask myself why this site is (still) called Inside Mac Games. :unsure:

First loves always last a lifetime.
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#13 Frigidman™

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:57 AM

View PostWhaleman, on 15 September 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Attachment macgames.jpg

Well.... here's one reason :) Used to be a lot more, but I've uninstalled the majority to save HD space and sanity. Ran out of the latter ages ago.

Dont you just love it when a game developer can't be arsed to supply a full sized icon so it doesn't look like ass?

-Fm [1oM7]
"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#14 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:49 PM

View PostJan, on 15 September 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Sometimes I ask myself why this site is (still) called Inside Mac Games. :unsure:
Legacy?

#15 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 05:19 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 14 September 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

Speaking of ape popsnizzleting... I wasted a lot of time recovering from some new game on my win7 crashing so hard it bashed my entire color profiling for desktop and gaming. I had to go back to a system restore point! It was so jacked up. Needless to say, I uninstalled that game and told the developers to go F themselves for making a crappy game like that.

So.... windows is not without its pains sometimes.

Then again, my OSX install has decidedly gotten a bit 'rough' and is needing a full re-install too because a core service keeps crashing for no good reason.

*sigh* computers these days *sigh*

Boy, can I relate to that.

Unfortunately, the geek in me creates a lot of problems for myself that do not need to happen but I just cannot seem to help it. Instead of playing a game last night, well into the night, I instead decided it would be fun to work on some stuff with Paul the Tall's Wineskin Porting Kit which is a very cool little app that often makes setting up older games in wine painless, fancy icons provided and all. But not all is roses when it comes to Wine by any means.

I had good luck in most of what I worked on and was very pleased with the results which will mean less reboots. I won't accept compromise though. The game has to run flawlessly or very close to it or else I abort after a while and reconcile myself to rebooting for that one.  Generally speaking, wine does well with a lot of older windows games of the DirectX 9 era which covers a lot of ground. In particular, the Porting Kit offers prebuilt wrappers for many classic GOG games and for these I had good luck. I know how to do this stuff from scratch but prebuilt and hopefully tested wrappers are such a timesaver assuming they work that is.

Since I was on a roll, I decided to be adventurous and try out a wrapper for Burnout Paradise Origin version. EA gave me that one free at some point and for whatever reasons the Porting Kit supported that while not listing the Steam one. I guess they just make as many as they can as rapidly as they can over time. Anyway, I ran into issues getting Origin installed and running. I sent in a support email and lucked out. The guy who works on the Porting Kit itself answered me right away. What ensued was a fair number of emails back and forth and he built and released two updates to the Porting Kit in the process. I really have to give Vitor a lot of praise for being so responsive on a free project like this. It was very nice of him to take such interest in the problem and basically provide me fixes right now as we were writing back and forth. Eventually, I got Origin installed and working fine. Then I got the game installed and also working fine until I ran into a huge issue (for me anyway) in that the Wine install did not recognize my gamepad which works perfectly with this game in bootcamp. I did everything I could think of with Wine, Wineskin, Winetricks, Wine control and then finally gave up and sent in another support message just now. I guess we'll see if they can sort out what the issue there is. As I understand it though, Wine is not known to be very good about working with USB gamepads in general. I might have wasted a lot of time there. On a bright note, the fixes for Origin installing will be worthwhile hopefully when I attempt to setup my copy of Red Alert 2 with the Porting Kit.

Speaking of Red Alert, the Porting Kit had a wrapper for a community project that comes from CnCnet (google them if interested) and I was able to download and install a complete working original Red Alert game with both content mission packs too. As part of this, they have built their own server browser supporting a number of the older C&C games. The only one though with full out of the box support for both single and multiplayer elegantly setup was the first Red Alert. This was a real find though. I loved the original Command and Conquer and was meaning to play Red Alert soon. I'd already installed in Windows using Origin as I own the full C&C Ultimate whatever collection.

I just realized, I have wandered way off topic again. Sorry about that. I'll leave this though in case anybody has interest in classic CnC online gameplay on Mac or free Red Alert on Mac or stuff about wine, etc.

What I began wanting to say was just that here I have these games working in bootcamp just fine but I am not satisfied with that. If I can run something in OS X well, I greatly prefer that and don't mind doing some work to make it happen. The problem is, I wind up creating all kinds of headaches for myself when if I had any sense at all I'd reboot in a couple minutes and be playing something instead of trying half the night to get some stupid racing game working when I already have a ton of them for Mac.

I think the thing is, playing geek is a game unto itself. I get off on making stuff work in OS X that isn't supposed to, as if I am getting away with something somehow. I know, it's crazy. I am crazy.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#16 the Battle Cat

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 10:31 AM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 18 September 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

I am crazy.

We know, that's why most of us are here, but thanks to the IMG 12 Step Program, you will soon be certifiably insane.  We even provide the medical documents for your records once you've finished The Program.  Thank you for having the courage to admit what you are to the group.  That was the first Step, and with that great attitude of yours you will be soon be gibbering into your monitor.
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#17 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 02:15 PM

I feel so much better now.

Well, guess I will go back to "porting" some more games. No point in playing them when I can mess with them instead!
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#18 Matt Diamond

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 03:14 PM

Thanks for the tip about Porting Kit. I've enjoyed getting some things to work in Wine in the past, but I have no patience now and I'd like to start with a working configuration right off the bat. I'll give TPK a try.

I almost got Age of Empires III (Steam) working with Wine, but in the end it had mouse focus and screen resolution issues. They felt solveable, but I lost interest. I've been playing it under VMWare since then, which is fine but I play it less often than if it were running on my Mac desktop. Maybe I'll try Crossover for that one, since I got a new Crossover license in a software bundle recently.
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#19 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 05:29 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 19 September 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Thanks for the tip about Porting Kit. I've enjoyed getting some things to work in Wine in the past, but I have no patience now and I'd like to start with a working configuration right off the bat. I'll give TPK a try.

I almost got Age of Empires III (Steam) working with Wine, but in the end it had mouse focus and screen resolution issues. They felt solveable, but I lost interest. I've been playing it under VMWare since then, which is fine but I play it less often than if it were running on my Mac desktop. Maybe I'll try Crossover for that one, since I got a new Crossover license in a software bundle recently.

I hope you find the Porting Kit useful for some stuff. I certainly have. I found also that while many ports are listed for GOG where it is a simpler install that I could just hit cancel when it requested the installer for the game. It would then finish up and from there I could open the wrapper, fire up wine tricks, update it, run the Steam install in Winetricks and then install the game that way into a wrapper tweaked for that particular game. There was one case I had to check AppDB regarding an intro video not displaying but I found a simple to install solution and did that. Ultimately, I had all three Age of Wonders games owned on Steam setup with the Porting Kit pretty easily along with a bunch of other stuff.

Another one which might interest you was I setup Age of Empires II HD from Steam with the Porting Kit. That works fine which is niceness.

As for Age of Empires III, while the Porting Kit doesn't support that yet I don't think, I have also obtained PlayOnMac (google for that if its new to you) and they do offer a prebuilt wrapper for that game. I own that too and plan to try out PlayOnMac to set it up but haven't gotten to it as of yet so I can't comment on how well PlayOnMac works or doesn't, etc.

Anyway, good luck giving that a shot if you decide to. I have Parallels here but feel the same way about using it as you probably do. It is cool to have but still less convenient than just firing up a game directly from OS X. My Parallels is now out of date but despite their dire warnings it works just fine. Still, I have extra copies of the VMs for Windows XP and Windows 7 stashed on my USB drive just in case I find out I am wrong there. I keep barebones spares backed up anyway as a precaution in case a VM gets hosed somehow. I am figuring by El Capitan it will be necessary to pay for it again if I want it.

Have you found VMware to be good for the games you've tried with it? I'm just curious. I supposed they have to be upgraded as often as Parallels too given operating system upgrades. I've wondered which was better. I don't care about Parallels integration with OS X stuff. I turn that off. I want the VM to be it's own little world and not invade my OS X desktop.

One thing that really turned me off to Parallels as a company was the initial dire warnings that in Yosemite I should not even try to load a VM with Parallels 8 because it simply will not load and start. That was patently false information and I cannot believe they did not know that unless for some odd reason they never even attempted it but I find that just as inexcusable myself. Other users of Parallels felt as I did about this when they discovered it did run VMs just fine without errors or problems. It would be one thing to not test it or support it and say so but to claim it absolutely just does not work and put that into the product as a message box via an update was a real you know what move.
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#20 Matt Diamond

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 09:35 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 19 September 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

I found also that while many ports are listed for GOG where it is a simpler install that I could just hit cancel when it requested the installer for the game. It would then finish up and from there I could open the wrapper, fire up wine tricks, update it, run the Steam install in Winetricks and then install the game that way into a wrapper tweaked for that particular game.
So you reinstall Steam in each wrapper for each game in turn?

Quote

As for Age of Empires III, while the Porting Kit doesn't support that yet I don't think, I have also obtained PlayOnMac (google for that if its new to you) and they do offer a prebuilt wrapper for that game.

Cool. Might give that a shot, though the number of different ways to run Wnin apps on my Mac is starting to get crazy. :-)

Quote

Have you found VMware to be good for the games you've tried with it? I'm just curious. I supposed they have to be upgraded as often as Parallels too given operating system upgrades. I've wondered which was better. I don't care about Parallels integration with OS X stuff. I turn that off. I want the VM to be it's own little world and not invade my OS X desktop.
Ditto on the integration.

Games run okay. I haven't bothered trying anything graphically intense. Parallels and VMWare used to regularly boast that they were faster than the other one for some game or other. I think Parallels was considered slightly ahead for games most years. I use VMWare at work though so I'm comfortable with it. Also, Parallels used to put out paid upgrades about twice as often as VMWare Fusion did. Fusion upgrades tended to cost more, which pissed users off, but I did the math and found Fusion to be cheaper over time. (That was a few years ago though, I haven't checked lately.)

Games or no, I think if you have either one, there isn't much point in also owning the other one. But if you were curious to try it, Fusion has a 30-day free trial, and they offer a discount for Parallels users, and I think Fusion can convert Parallels VM's (and vice versa).
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