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Setting up Bootcamp (again) and have a few questions


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#1 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 11:35 AM

I'm not in any rush here as I've just started playing Dragon Age Origins in OS X but after a few fails from Ubisoft I think I'd like to put Windows 7 back on my 2013 iMac. The games I'd be playing are almost entirely Steam games and a few Origin only titles also perhaps.

To save space on my boot drive, I am thinking about making a smaller Windows partition than I have previously, just enough for Windows and all the DirectX .dlls, .net crap, etc., etc. games install along with it. About how much room would I need for that to ensure I have plenty with no need to worry about running short, not having sufficient swap file space, etc.?

I ask this because I think I will locate the Steam games on an external USB 3.0 7200 RPM disk drive rather than on the Windows partition.  I believe Origin will let me install where I please as well. Which brings up another question I may have asked around here before, the performance should be good enough doing this right?

Is 50 gigs for a Windows partition sufficient so I won't run into problems down the road after many installs that also install who knows what into Windows? It seems like every game has its own custom DLLs, etc., etc.

Thanks.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I may opt for grab Windows 10 for free when it releases so I should be thinking about its space requirements along with game installation files added to it. The actual games themselves again would be on the external drive however.
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#2 Hansi

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 01:13 PM

If you only plan on having 3-4 games installed at ones and they aren't the latest ones 50GB is enough but note that the most recent games like Arkham Knight can take up to 55GB.

The OS needs about 20GB + some space is reserved for serializing memory for hibernate etc.

#3 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 01:21 PM

View PostHansi, on 27 July 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

If you only plan on having 3-4 games installed at ones and they aren't the latest ones 50GB is enough but note that the most recent games like Arkham Knight can take up to 55GB.

The OS needs about 20GB + some space is reserved for serializing memory for hibernate etc.

Yeah, there is that I guess and I knew about the 20 gigs requirement. I have since checked and learned it remains the same with Windows 10 as well. What I am wondering though is how much added space I might want to be sure I also allocate for all the dlls, .net stuff, etc. that various games install with themselves and which all accumulate taking up more space over time. I wouldn't want to run short down the road and have to redo this.

Otherwise, I think I like the idea of using the external for the game installations as there is so much room there I don't need to worry about installing whatever I feel like.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#4 Frigidman™

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 01:49 PM

All the vc redist, and directX installs that most games do, don't continually stack up. If its the same as a prior install, it doesnt install (even though it says it is according to steam). Especially directX.

They are also fairly small in footprint and size (and only load when a games need calls for a specific one). For example for me, I have 14 different VC++ installed ranging from VC 2005 to VC 2012. However each one is only from 300 KB to just 20 MB. A game's saved game can be bigger easily, so your biggest concern should be 'saved game space!'.

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#5 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 04:31 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 27 July 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

All the vc redist, and directX installs that most games do, don't continually stack up. If its the same as a prior install, it doesnt install (even though it says it is according to steam). Especially directX.

They are also fairly small in footprint and size (and only load when a games need calls for a specific one). For example for me, I have 14 different VC++ installed ranging from VC 2005 to VC 2012. However each one is only from 300 KB to just 20 MB. A game's saved game can be bigger easily, so your biggest concern should be 'saved game space!'.

That's a good point about the save games. Maybe I'll just go with 100 gigs for the Windows partition and the games can live on the external then. That should be more than enough space for whatever the games install over time plus saved games. I don't generally care about saved games once I am done with something anyway so if I began to run short of space I could delete those to make more easily enough.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#6 Frost

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 01:36 AM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 27 July 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Oh, I forgot to mention that I may opt for grab Windows 10 for free when it releases so I should be thinking about its space requirements along with game installation files added to it. The actual games themselves again would be on the external drive however.
Do eet.

Updated to Windows 10 today. Very, very, very speedy, they finally added a full Time Machine-style backup suite built into the OS, and a bunch of other improvements.

Probably the biggest upside is they made everything so flat and devoid of character that you no longer feel drawn back to Windows' prettier UI when you're using OSX. I swear I felt like a traitor every time that happened. Windows is back to being the ugliest OS now.
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Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#7 Cougar

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 01:26 PM

View PostFrost, on 01 August 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

Do eet.

Updated to Windows 10 today. Very, very, very speedy, they finally added a full Time Machine-style backup suite built into the OS, and a bunch of other improvements.

Wow, really? About time. Was this not in Windows 8? Haven't seen any mention of it in any of the Windows 10 reviews I've read. I guess it's not as flashy as Cortana.

Edit: Yeah, it was introduced in Windows 8.

Quote

Probably the biggest upside is they made everything so flat and devoid of character that you no longer feel drawn back to Windows' prettier UI when you're using OSX. I swear I felt like a traitor every time that happened. Windows is back to being the ugliest OS now.

:huh: Windows had a prettier UI? I feel like I'm time warping to 2001 whenever I use Windows 7. Aero feels very dated, especially the window titlebars and all the glossy elements. I think MS is on the right track with W10, but they go a bit far with the flat tiles--I plan on hiding them when I upgrade. Can't stand the way they look, especially with tiny desktop icons in a huge square.

I think MS biggest problem isn't style, but UI consistency. W10 is still a mess in that regard, more so than with W7. One might not be a big fan of Yosemite, but I think it's difficult to argue it isn't well-executed and consistent.

#8 Frost

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 04:07 PM

View PostCougar, on 01 August 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Wow, really? About time. Was this not in Windows 8? Haven't seen any mention of it in any of the Windows 10 reviews I've read. I guess it's not as flashy as Cortana.

Edit: Yeah, it was introduced in Windows 8.
That was File History. It'd back up your documents and various other user folder stuff, but it wouldn't do the whole machine. There was a clunky System Recovery imaging option that was a holdover from Windows 7, but calling it a piece of popsnizzle would be an understatement. The new backup feature retains 8's File History, but also adds the option to have regular backups of the entire machine done incrementally after an initial complete backup just like Time Machine. It's actually nicer than Time Machine in one regard in that you can set the interval to whatever you want rather than choosing between A) hourly or B) hacking OSX.

Going "back in time" to retrieve files has nothing on Time Machine's awesome interface of course though.

View PostCougar, on 01 August 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

W10 is still a mess in that regard, more so than with W7. One might not be a big fan of Yosemite, but I think it's difficult to argue it isn't well-executed and consistent.
Yeah, this is the one thing that bugs me with Windows 10. As much as 8 was criticized (and rightly so), I think 8.1 achieved a very nice level of UI consistency in form and function. The only thing that needed fixing was official Microsoft apps refusing to run in a window like a proper desktop app, and instead taking over the screen.

Windows 10 took a step backward in this regard and has an absolute clusterfrak of a hybrid between the Windows 7 start menu and Windows 8 start screen.

I was more talking just "curb appeal" of looking at the UI, not functionality and consistency. Apple kills Microsoft in that regard, as always. On the visual appeal front it's probably no secret I'm not a fan of the direction Apple's taken lately, but I'm much less enthused with Windows 10's look. They're trying to out-flat Apple, and they've succeeded mightily...  the result having all the visual appeal of a piece of blank printer paper.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#9 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 01:02 AM

View PostFrost, on 01 August 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

On the visual appeal front it's probably no secret I'm not a fan of the direction Apple's taken lately, but I'm much less enthused with Windows 10's look. They're trying to out-flat Apple, and they've succeeded mightily...  the result having all the visual appeal of a piece of blank printer paper.

I am not thrilled with the current flat, lifeless fad either and look forward to when it hopefully dies out so we can have nicer looking interfaces again. The idea that visual distraction is evil to the extent that the UI must be so plain it is ugly doesn't hold water in my mind. People do not do their best work in sterile environments typically. I think as a rule a pleasing environment to work in promotes productivity and sterile is not pleasing, at least not to me.

I read one time about the Beatles disliking Abbey Road Studios (they were not the only ones) because the place was so sterile. I saw one photo of them setup in a large room that was entirely white and that was it. They put some stuff up to decorate it just to try and make the place look a little nicer somehow. It was awful. It was like a modern UI but even worse if you can imagine that. So that is just one example from a different setting of the point I am trying to make about pleasing environments promoting not taking away from productivity.

I am very certain that if my Mac looked prettier I would feel all happy inside every time I sat down here and I know I would get more games played and have more fun. I might even do a little work I'd be in such a good mood.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#10 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 01:08 AM

Oh, as for Windows 10 I admit being drawn to the new and well, I was going to say shiny but I guess that doesn't really apply. Still, faster is good. I am concerned though about initial release bugs and most importantly of all compatibility issues with older games. Then again, maybe it would be a blessing in disguise if it refused to run some. I could just give up on those and move on to the remaining hundreds...

The little thingy in my task bar informs me that my system is compatible with Windows 10 and supposedly all my apps are. I find that just a little hard to believe given what I just installed on there.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#11 Frost

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 03:20 AM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 02 August 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

The little thingy in my task bar informs me that my system is compatible with Windows 10 and supposedly all my apps are. I find that just a little hard to believe given what I just installed on there.
I haven't had any compatibility problems so far aside from needing to uninstall and reinstall the driver for my Soundblaster X7, knock on wood, but it's only been about 48 hours.
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.0 GHz i7 4790K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2, 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#12 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 05:35 AM

Well, that sounds pretty good for openers anyway. I need to check into how much space it wants free to do the upgrade over Windows 7. Maybe I'll go for it. What's the worst thing that could happen? Wait! Don't tell me. It's more fun to be surprised!
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#13 Cougar

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 09:15 AM

Quote

Going "back in time" to retrieve files has nothing on Time Machine's awesome interface of course though.

Which has been made boring in Yosemite. :/

Quote

Windows 10 took a step backward in this regard and has an absolute clusterfrak of a hybrid between the Windows 7 start menu and Windows 8 start screen.

Unlike Windows 8's UI, I don't think there's anything with the basic philosophical idea. It prevents live tiles in a way that is not jarring with the desktop, and you can turn them off of you don't like them. But the UI is poorly implemented...the all apps Alphabetic interface is awful, the boxes around the apps in lists looks bad, and you can't add things you want to the left. I'll probably end up installing classic shell even though it really doesn't matter that much to me as I use windows as a glorified Steam Launcher and nothing more.

Ironically, in the first betas the start menu was fine. Then they rewrote it from scratch...

#14 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 12:55 PM

Well, it's on! I like it too, well as a nice place to drop in and play some games that is. I actually like what they did with the start menu myself. It was easy to customize the tiles to suit myself with the GOG games that had been icons on the Desktop and then I can add one or two games from Steam and/or Origin according to whatever I happen to be playing at any given point in time. I like it because I can put everything I care about in that one relatively small and quickly accessible place. So for my purposes it is nice. I agree the alphabetical menu sucks. I looked at other stuff out of curiosity and some seems okay and some seems terrible, like their Music player? Wow. Maybe if I'd imported a library and set it up or something but I am glad I don't need to care.

I got rid of most of their tiles right away other than solitaire, weather and Cortana in case I want to ask her stupid questions to amuse myself. One time I asked Siri to tell me a story which she did. I need to see if Cortana has any stories to tell.

It was horrible to install. It was very slow and when the desktop came up it was like molasses flowing uphill in winter. This turned out to be some issue with the drivers. Once I got the bootcamp drivers reinstalled it perked right up and seems very snappy now. It took over an hour for the driver install to run to give you an idea of how bad things were. That normally takes just a few minutes. I thought the install was just completely screwed at first and was relieved that cured all.

As for accessing stuff like control panel or whatnot, I found the search box next to the menu handy not that it's a big deal, just one click less than before but still, I like it being there. Steam, Origin and Evernote I stuck on the task bar.

So, ready to rock whenever i get back to Winders games.
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