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Apple does more damage to Macs than anything


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#21 Frigidman™

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 08:38 AM

They "damaged" OSX with that recent ugly heap of crap they made ;) In my opinion.

As for iTunes... ever since I started using Pandora, I have not launched iTunes except to fix an iPod Touch (since apparently all that stuff HAS to go through iTunes, which I find terrible).

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#22 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 10:33 AM

View PostWumpus, on 17 May 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

I wouldn't go so far as to say Apple "damages" Mac's. They might damage gaming (maybe that's what you mean) but not Mac's themselves. Apple is both the god of our machine, granting us our glorious Macs, and the bane of Mac gamers everywhere for how they ignore things we need, like an OpenGL update. Basically, they are a cruel god who ignores the prayers of his (or her) followers. :(
Well, they can damage it by pushing customers to Windows.. Which they seem to be doing at the moment.

I'm a hardcore iTunes user, and have been since v2.0. And I've always found iTunes great, except for the Ping mess, and now iTunes 12. The guy who designed that UI mess should be publicly shouted at. Where's Steve when we need him?
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#23 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 01:11 PM

View PostWumpus, on 17 May 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

I'd like to get into this more in length, but at the moment I can only make a short post.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Apple "damages" Mac's. They might damage gaming (maybe that's what you mean) but not Mac's themselves. Apple is both the god of our machine, granting us our glorious Macs, and the bane of Mac gamers everywhere for how they ignore things we need, like an OpenGL update. Basically, they are a cruel god who ignores the prayers of his (or her) followers. :(

The thread title was a joke referencing another thread here by nearly the exact same name except that one was called: "Aspyr does more damage to Macs than anything" which is why I said some of the stuff I did about that 10 year old necro thread in the original post.

I am a huge Apple fan to be sure but nobody is perfect so this sort of took off on its own so far with legitimate gripes which I have some of myself.

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 17 May 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

I personally use Appshopper.com for my wishlists for both the iOS store and Mac store. Works quite nicely, and you get emails when they drop in price! I've gotten a lot of good deals out of it.. :) They also had an excellent app for iOS until Apple nuked it. Fortunately, those of us that got it in the old days, can still download it and use it.

Thank you very much for pointing this out! I had no idea it existed. Bookmarked and will be making an account, etc. in a bit. It looks great.

View Postmacdude22, on 16 May 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

I think I'm the only one but I liked 10.10 UI from the get go. The flat UI felt like classic OS to me. Maybe I'm drunk 24/7. You'll never know.

No, i don't think so at all. It really seems to be some love it and some hate it thing. It's funny how there is two threads over on MacRumors with one group hating on it and another loving it. So I have wondered if they did focus testing and I am among a minority in hating it. Even so, if this is true it simply means that once again the world is wrong while I naturally am right. It is not easy being me sometimes let me tell you!
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#24 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 01:46 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 16 May 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

Ditto. I am keeping my 2008 Mac Pro limping along for as long as I can, because I have no idea what to replace it with.  I'm thinking hackintosh but I'd prefer something that just worked without requiring investments of time. I'd pickup a used 2012 Mac Pro if I knew it would be a significant improvement. Though they aren't cheap, probably because lots of other people have the same plan.
From a (stock?) 2008 Mac Pro to a customized 2012, you'll gain much power. Non easily user serviceable parts are 99% the same from 2009 to 2012: only CPU, graphics cards, etc. changed. So get a cheap 4 core 2009 (if you don't need lots of cores) or a slightly more expensive 8 core 2010, flash it, change the CPU(s) (4 core 3.46 GHz can be found for less than $100, 6 cores double that), add RAM (all 1333 MHz sticks), change the graphics card, put back your hard drives from the 2008 if you have several, and voilà! Sell all the leftover parts and the 2008, and the expense should be moderate if you buy used parts. Don't forget to add a SSD if you can afford it. Granted, it's more work and time consuming than buying a new iMac, but you'll end up with a very nice machine.

#25 Frost

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 02:56 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 16 May 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

Thankfully since the advent of Spotify and pretty much all necessary sync functions being moved into iCloud I haven't had a need to open iTunes in a long time. I should just nuke my library.
I still like and use iTunes and won't be streaming anytime soon (except from my Synology) since I be an audiophile and I love my lossless physical media.

Iridum and Kestrel are staying on iTunes 11, though. Every time that iTunes 12 reminder pops up...

View PostFrigidman™, on 17 May 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

They "damaged" OSX with that recent ugly heap of crap they made ;) In my opinion.
I'm still holding off of Yosemite until Flavours 2 is out. Apparently they're going to have a Lion theme available day 1.

I shall use that in good health. Jony Ive can copy Microsoft's ugly flat look on someone else's Mac.
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#26 macdude22

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:40 PM

View PostFrost, on 17 May 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

I still like and use iTunes and won't be streaming anytime soon (except from my Synology) since I be an audiophile and I love my lossless physical media.


Meh, Rdio 320kbps streams sound good enough on my Tivoli Model One (dat warm AM sound for Coast to Coast) and Zvox 555. But me left ear was too close to an M80 once as a kid so my hearing ain't what it should be.

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#27 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 08:27 PM

I checked out the Flavors 2 preview last night. I'm looking forward to the release and among the demo themes shown was Lion. Unfortunately everything in the app was disabled and I mean everything so I could try applying a them just to see the changes it would make. Still, it's nice to see they are coming along with it. Hopefully soon!

I forget how Lion looked now but I liked how the Dock looked in Mavericks. Is there a good utility to restore the Dock to that appearance by any chance?
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#28 Janichsan

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 03:23 AM

I was surprised how little Yosemite's UI design bothered me in the end. I'm not enthralled by it, but I also don't hate it. I found that I pretty quickly got used to it, although the gratuitous transparency is sometimes irritating. What bothers me more about Yosemite is the copious amount of bugs and performance hitches.

That said, I do not agree that Yosemite would be the worst version of OS X in that matter. It's the worst released after Snow Leopard, but there were definitely worse OS X releases before that. Part of the problem seems to be that Apple does not really seem to bother any more with fixing bugs: Yosemite still has bugs that first reared their ugly head in Lion (like this one), and I guess the current amount of problems is mostly a matter of pure accumulation over the years. That Yosemite changed more than the previous releases, and thus having more opportunity to introduce new problems certainly didn't help.

My biggest hope for OS X 10.11 would be that Apple does for Mac OS the same what they are apparently planning for iOS 9: a Snow Leopard style upgrade with no (or few) new features, and a focus on bug fixes and performance improvements.

My opinion regarding iTunes 12 is quite similar: it's not really good, but not as bad as some make it. For the most part, the changes to iTunes 11 aren't that big. I'm p*ssed that Apple has removed the option to sync bookmarks with iDevices for good, though (which surprisingly seems to bother almost no one else).

The Mac App Store is another example of Apple seemingly not caring anymore. In the four years since its inception, there have been virtually zero improvements to it. It's a pain in the arse to use, and it's a pain in the arse to troubleshoot.

And regarding the new Photos: I dabbled with it for 10 minutes or so, before coming to the conclusion that it will not supplement, let alone replace Aperture for anytime soon. I'm not even sure if it could properly replace iPhoto.

On the topic of Apple's hardware, I'm getting increasingly discomfortable with the direction they are developing. For long years, Apple took pride in building machines that not only looked good, but also were well serviceable. I clearly remember a Steve Jobs Keynote where he introduced a new PowerBook (I think) and spent several minutes talking about how easy it would be to swap memory and the hard drive. The above mentioned G4 Cube was not their easiest serviceable machine, but the ease with that you could get to its innards was testament to Apple's design approach.

And now we get an ultra-thin Macbook, that might look sleek, but is underpowered, has a crappy keyboard, a single port and is basically built to be a disposable product. Design over functionality.

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#29 Matt Diamond

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 07:57 AM

View PostCamper-Hunter, on 17 May 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

From a (stock?) 2008 Mac Pro to a customized 2012, you'll gain much power. Non easily user serviceable parts are 99% the same from 2009 to 2012: only CPU, graphics cards, etc. changed. So get a cheap 4 core 2009 (if you don't need lots of cores) or a slightly more expensive 8 core 2010, flash it, change the CPU(s) (4 core 3.46 GHz can be found for less than $100, 6 cores double that), add RAM (all 1333 MHz sticks), change the graphics card, put back your hard drives from the 2008 if you have several, and voilà!

FYI it's no longer a stock Mac Pro 2008: it's got an SSD and GTX 680 in it, both of which I could move to the new machine.

I know the busses and RAM are faster from 2009 onwards, but it's not clear how much difference it will make for the effort. I've seen benchmarks in the past but I can't seem to find any right now.

The firmware and processor upgrade seem to be key to making this upgrade worthwhile, and that's the part that makes me nervous.. Still, you've given me some food for thought. Thanks for the suggestions!
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#30 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 01:47 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 18 May 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

The firmware and processor upgrade seem to be key to making this upgrade worthwhile, and that's the part that makes me nervous.. Still, you've given me some food for thought. Thanks for the suggestions!
The most difficult thing with the processor upgrade is finding the right tool to unscrew the heat sink: you need a very long (15 or 20 cm) 3 mm hex driver, which isn't sold in the common hardware store; I found mine online. By the way, the same tool will remove the Mac Pro 2008 heatsink, but upgrading this is less interesting since 3.2 GHz is the max frequency compatible, and 2.8 GHz to 3.2 is a moderate 14 % increase (if you have a 3.0 or 3.2 GHz CPU already, this would make even less sense).
The only other caveat is don't buy an 8 core 2009 if you plan to change the CPUs, because it's a pain (no such problem with the 4 core 2009, however: that's what I have).

That reminds me, I have a Xeon W5590 (4 cores/8 threads at 3.33 GHz, turbo 3.6 GHz) for sale, cheap (let's say $40 + shipping); I used it for a few months in my 2009 Mac Pro. Let me know (personal message) if you are interested (or someone else!).

Besides the faster CPUs and RAM, the 2009-2012 has other benefits: SATA optical drives (so easier to replace if they fail, or to add a hard drive or SSD in this bay), RAM sticks are much less expensive, it has two PCI Express 2.0 4X slots (only PCIe 1.0 4X on the 2008) which provides more bandwidth for RAID or SATA 3 cards, for instance. Small details which make this machine the ultimate Mac Pro in my opinion, even better than the 2008 which I also used to have. Too bad the 2014 variant was such a disappointment after the perfection that was the prior model!

#31 Matt Diamond

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 03:10 PM

View PostCamper-Hunter, on 18 May 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

That reminds me, I have a Xeon W5590 (4 cores/8 threads at 3.33 GHz, turbo 3.6 GHz) for sale, cheap (let's say $40 + shipping); I used it for a few months in my 2009 Mac Pro. Let me know (personal message) if you are interested (or someone else!).

Tempting, but I am nowhere near pulling the trigger on this yet! But I've started reading up on the flashing and the CPU upgrade. This approach seems easier than a full-blown hackintosh and could give me a few more years of happiness while I wait to see what Apple's next goofy move is.

That seems better than my previous plan, which was to hire Leonardo DiCaprio to enter Jonathan Ive's dream to implant the idea that midrange towers are the next cool form factor.
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#32 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 09:22 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 18 May 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

Tempting, but I am nowhere near pulling the trigger on this yet! But I've started reading up on the flashing and the CPU upgrade. This approach seems easier than a full-blown hackintosh and could give me a few more years of happiness while I wait to see what Apple's next goofy move is.

That seems better than my previous plan, which was to hire Leonardo DiCaprio to enter Jonathan Ive's dream to implant the idea that midrange towers are the next cool form factor.

I don't know. I think that previous plan of your sounds pretty good. I can always find my own flaming apple decals somewhere.
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#33 Jan

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 07:52 AM

We'll soon be getting slick new Mac Pros at work, which means I've got an early 2008 Mac Pro for free to take home. :) I've already bought an Asus Strix GTX 970 and a Samsung EVO 500GB SSD. Tested it yesterday under Yosemite with Tomb Raider, Dreamfall Chapters, The Witcher 2 and BioShock Infinite. Feral is just awesome: At 1080p I can max out Tomb Raider and still get an average frame rate of 54. Dreamfall is Unity-based and has a ton of eye candy if you crank it up to the extreme. With VSync on it's around 30 fps at ultra settings. Not great, but playable. The Witcher 2 is an eOn port and an utter piece of popsnizzle. I don't know what the hell VP is thinking? Aspyr is decent as always: Infinite runs solid at the highest settings, but more in the 30-40 fps range. Maybe Nvidia graphics are not optimal under OS X or I should upgrade to a GTX 980 to compensate the DirectX > OpenGL performance hit on Mac. I guess the results are still awesome for a 7 year old machine running OS X and a less than 400 $ investment as far as I am concerned.
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#34 macdude22

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:05 AM

The Battlecat and I have had some drunken discussions on this (2008 Mac Pros being relevant to our interests). I am of the opinion there are a number of games that for reasons unknown to me run absolutely terrible under an Nvidia Card on OS X. Borderlands 2 being one of them. I have a GTX 680, SSDs, 14GB Ram in mine. Even on my MBP I can get the same sometimes better performance by disabling the 650m when in OS X. Bioshock Infinite was passable after 10.9.2 but still way better under windows. I'm not sure if this is an Open GL thing that could be resolved if apple updated or what. I know on TBCs suggestion I threw my old 4870 back in my Mac Pro for a bit and BL2 runs better with that than with the 680.

TW2 and Dead Island both are essentially unplayable on OS X. Lowest settings (at my monitor native 1680x1050) and we are talking maybe occasionally double digit FPS, I don't think ever saw either hit 20. Reboot to windows you can max both of these to the hilt.

Dirt 3 and Tomb Raider both run at top settings, and look great. Divinity Original Sin. Great

I don't think a 980 will solve your issues with certain games. My suggestion, buy a cheap SSHD, throw windows on it, boot there when needed. Works great for me and I'll still get several years out of this thing I'm sure.
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#35 macdude22

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 09:13 AM

Also TW3 under windows works fantanwubulously, I think I need to take a few weeks off from work.
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#36 Jan

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 09:13 AM

I've had a discussion with myself yesterday: Buy a PS4 + The Witcher 3 for 388 € or a GTX970 with The Witcher 3 and Batman Arkham Knight for the same price? The Mac Pro was free, already equipped with 20GB of RAM, several hard drives and a GTX 660 Ti. My Mac game collection is 300+ strong, I already got a console (Wii U) and there's still a backlog of high-profile titles, so I went with the 970. Regarding VP's dreadful eON ports on OS X: Liam from GamingOnLinux tested BioShock Infinite (VP eOn port) on his GTX970 and got solid 60+ fps under Linux, but The Witcher 2 is barely playable for the penguin boys as well. I just demand that every single Mac and/or Linux game shall be ported by Feral (and maybe Aspyr).
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#37 macdude22

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 10:23 AM

I don't understand how CD Projekt puts their name on TW2 port. Someone in that office has to have a mac and could play the game for 2 minutes and say "we can't possibly release this".
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#38 Cougar

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 05:53 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 18 May 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

I was surprised how little Yosemite's UI design bothered me in the end. I'm not enthralled by it, but I also don't hate it. I found that I pretty quickly got used to it, although the gratuitous transparency is sometimes irritating. What bothers me more about Yosemite is the copious amount of bugs and performance hitches.

My biggest hope for OS X 10.11 would be that Apple does for Mac OS the same what they are apparently planning for iOS 9: a Snow Leopard style upgrade with no (or few) new features, and a focus on bug fixes and performance improvements.


That's what the latest 9to5Mac rumors are saying--stability and security. Though I am slightly worried at "Rootless," a kernel-level security feature designed to make low-level things inaccessible. Supposedly it can be disabled on OS X, but If it kills the Hackintosh scene, then my days of AAA gaming on the Mac are done. Sorry, Apple, not going to spend more money for a laptop-on-a-stand with worse performance.

Yosemite has been rock solid for me--it's iOS 8 that has been the buggy mess. My take on the UI is pretty much unchanged--I think they went too far in the opposite direction from skeuomorphism, but in general I like it better. Hate the translucency too--turning it off improves things a lot.

Though it looks like we'll all have something new to complain about appearance-wise, as the Apple Watch font San Francisco is going to come to OS X and iOS.

#39 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 01:29 PM

View PostCougar, on 23 May 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

Though it looks like we'll all have something new to complain about appearance-wise, as the Apple Watch font San Francisco is going to come to OS X and iOS.

Oh, goodie! Hopefully my next iMac will come with a "digital crown" on the side and by then OS X will have been migrated to the Watch OS UI. Fantastic! Hopefully it won't come with a keyboard and I just can depend on Siri to play my games for me while I watch on my 27" watch.
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#40 Janichsan

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 01:35 PM

First people complain when Apple switches to Helvetica Neue, because it is not as readable on non-retina screens. Now Apple (allegedly!) plans to switch to a font that is designed to be better readable on lower resolution screens, and people complain again…

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