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Looking for a keyboard. The dreaded search is on.


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#21 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:46 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 09 May 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

I don't do wireless keyboards. Or mice. Any input device that is wireless I have loathed. This MBP Keyboard I can only find in that little wireless variant with the stupid Fn key in the wrong place. And they are not backlit either. Unless I'm not finding the right thing you are referring too? Got some links to point me towards em?

It's full size and has no Fn key. Comes with every mac desktop since like 2008 (or at least it used to, maybe the wirelss kb is standard now)

http://store.apple.c...sh-usa?fnode=56
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#22 Frost

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 12:12 AM

I'm in the "you must use mechanical or you're not a gamer is a bunch of bullpopsnizzle" group myself. I'm not using a mechanical keyboard and have no desire to.

I love my G510. Backlit, reliable (been gaming heavily on it for 2 years now and not the slightest problem), comfortable, quiet. Glad I got it when I did, though. Logitech's aesthetic update with the G510s was an aesthetic downgrade, IMO.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#23 macdude22

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 12:19 AM

View PostFrost, on 10 May 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

I'm in the "you must use mechanical or you're not a gamer is a bunch of bullpopsnizzle" group myself. I'm not using a mechanical keyboard and have no desire to.

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#24 Frigidman™

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 08:01 AM

View PostFrost, on 10 May 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

I love my G510. Backlit, reliable (been gaming heavily on it for 2 years now and not the slightest problem), comfortable, quiet. Glad I got it when I did, though. Logitech's aesthetic update with the G510s was an aesthetic downgrade, IMO.

I kept seeing a lot of reviews saying "but I ended up going with the G510 and love it"... but when I went searching for that, all I found was that G510s and was like "why on EARTH do they love that?!" hah. Now I know... they screwed with a good thing?

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#25 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:22 AM

View PostFrost, on 10 May 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

I'm in the "you must use mechanical or you're not a gamer is a bunch of bullpopsnizzle" group myself. I'm not using a mechanical keyboard and have no desire to.

I'm not saying that "1337 gam4rs must use mechanical ! hurr durr!", but I think that you really should try different mechanical keyboards. Try cherry reds, and then cherry greens - those are polar opposites in terms of feel. It goes Red - Brown - Blue - Green if order of "feel" (red has the least amount of 'feel' - it's just a smooth and easy keypress. Green requires more force to press down a key, and will make the "click" noise when u press it. Brown and Blue fills in the middle). There's a black switch in there, but I've never tried it personally.  

I would say that biggest strength of mechanical is the uniform feel across every single key. Your "E" key is going to feel identical to your "Page Up" key, and using the keyboard for 3 years isn't going to change that. And by "feels exactly the same" I mean it will take the identical amount of force, and has the identical amount of travel time. The keyboard feels exactly how you want it to feel, and you also have tons of customization options from WASD keyboards (you can install their keycap sets onto most mechanical keyboards).

Summary: mechanical keyboards don't provide any tangible benefit over a membrane keyboard, but what they do provide is options and customization in terms of look and feel that is impossible with a membrane keyboard.
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#26 Tetsuya

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:23 AM

for Non-mechanicals, i will say that i do love me the current Apple keyboard.  It's probably the only non-mech i like to type on.  I have a friend who has the Deathstalker Ultimate, and it is very comparable.  Keys are -slightly- less crisp than the Apple Keyboard, but still very nice for a membrane type key.  Also, the Switchblade UI is pretty awesome (he uses it to track Mumble channels and broadcast to only specific channels or people as needed) - i wish they made a Black Widow with the Switchblade UI - i'd buy it.

#27 Frigidman™

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:43 AM

Maybe thats the problem here. All keyboards that I have used and loved, have been Apple keyboards. Every time I touch a "Real PC" keyboard (like in stores, or some persons PC), I shrink back in horror. So looking from there, the Mechanical (Red or Brown) maybe actually ARE simply wonderful when compared to all the other random PC keyboard crap that exists which people come from.

Its all perspective huh?

For me, coming from the apple keyboards, I don't see that any key feels different from any other key, all keys take the same amount of effort. (except after 14 years when one key is just worn out... but thats plastic for you, and even a mechanical keyboard's plastic is going to wear down eventually). I guess I am used to them so much that my fingers dont hurt from the strain of pushing them down.

Best keyboard would be a new Apple Pro Glass one like I have, but add backlit, and fix anti-ghosting, and have drivers that allow swapping the command/alt keys for use on PC. I'd be so happy ;) lol

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#28 Tetsuya

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:57 AM

Well, the Apple Keyboard you just killed - ive thrown away four of those because i hated those damn things.  SO mushy and unresponsive; felt like my fingers had to take a trip to Florida to press one key there was so much wasted travel.  So Keyboard taste will be personal.  

The "new" Apple keyboards have drivers for Windows (or they did as part of the Bootcamp drivers when i used to dual boot) that made them work right  in windows.

#29 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:03 AM

If you want to get a PC keyboard that's similar to the apple one, I would have to say that the Razer Deathstalker is probably one of the best options. It has the same chiclet keys that the apple keyboard uses.
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#30 Frigidman™

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:40 AM

Something odd I've noticed while TRYING to force myself to get used to this G710+ ... they removed the small 'gap' between the A and Capslock keys. Well, they didn't remove it, they just didn't include it. I never realized just how much I relied on that gap to find where to situate my hand without looking at the keyboard. Very odd what you realize you did out of habit when things change.

Oh and the travel distance for my old apple keyboard is less than on this new g710+. On the old keyboard, there was this distinctive soft 'thump' and then it registered. With the g710+ its a scratchy long press then it kinda registers somewhere in the middle of that mess.

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#31 Tetsuya

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:50 AM

Well, all mechanicals actuate somewhere in the middle of the press - you dont actually have to bottom out the key to get it to register, which you do have to do on any membrane style keyboard.  Once you get used to it, you dont bottom out the keys anymore, and it's quite a bit faster.  

All the keyboards i had (came with my G3, my two G4s, the used Flowerpot G4 iMac i bought..) like yours, i felt like i was sticking my hands in pudding to type.  At the time, preferred chiclet style boards (i hadn't used a mechanic since the old Apple Pro ADB keyboard - which im considering going back to, having just found a great tutorial on making a cheap ADB to USB adapter) and the difference was night and day.  

To each his own, though. My wife likes her DasKeyboard but hates my Black Widow Ultimate, and i know people who prefer 10$ throwaway USB keyboards.  

Give the Deathstalker a try.  It has chiclet keys that are extremely similar in feel and response to the MBP/Apple Keyboard, is backlit, and if you want to splurge, for gaming the Switchblade UI is pretty awesome if you go with the Ultimate.  

Just go to Microcenter and start unboxing and trying them out.  Take your MBP and plug them all in and see how they actually perform typing.  One or two of the assosciates might give you guff, but i bet if you go to the Mac section with three or four of the keyboards in your cart and tell them you want to try them all out before buying one.. the Mac guy will happily let you.  After all, he gets to put his sticker on your stuff!  They get really riled up over those stickers!  (When i built my gaming PC, the guy in the parts section must have thought i walked on water or something - i walked in with the entire parts list sorted by PLU and was like "go get all of that and put your stickers on it and then meet me up front". Must have made his day)

#32 Frigidman™

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 11:19 AM

I definitely want to try out more mechanical keyboards. I have a feeling this G710+ is just a bum deal, and I don't want to let it put me completely off trying others.

View PostTetsuya, on 10 May 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

After all, he gets to put his sticker on your stuff!  They get really riled up over those stickers!  (When i built my gaming PC, the guy in the parts section must have thought i walked on water or something - i walked in with the entire parts list sorted by PLU and was like "go get all of that and put your stickers on it and then meet me up front". Must have made his day)

Haha I know what you mean. I went in to get an i7 (they have awesome deals), and the guy was all bouncing about trying to get me to buy this part and some other part, cause I already knew what all I was going to get from both newegg and amazon and microcenter. But he started to give me discounts to keep me from going home and ordering other parts. So I managed to get some nice bundle deals on cpu/mb/ram/hdd from that one guy. And his stickers ;)

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#33 Frost

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 06:07 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 10 May 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

I kept seeing a lot of reviews saying "but I ended up going with the G510 and love it"... but when I went searching for that, all I found was that G510s and was like "why on EARTH do they love that?!" hah. Now I know... they screwed with a good thing?
Well, my gripe with the G510s is it's just ugly, to me. :P

Functionally it may be the same, aside from reportedly not being compatible with really old versions of Logitech's gaming software like the G510 is. I can't vouch for that though as I've never played with the G510s.

I will say I tried the G15, G19, and a couple Razer keyboards along with the G510 and for me, the G510 blew them all out of the water. The rest got sold/returned and I kept it and never looked back. I have tried the G710 in the meantime, but I didn't care for it either.

View PostSneaky Snake, on 10 May 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

I'm not saying that "1337 gam4rs must use mechanical ! hurr durr!", but I think that you really should try different mechanical keyboards. Try cherry reds, and then cherry greens - those are polar opposites in terms of feel. It goes Red - Brown - Blue - Green if order of "feel" (red has the least amount of 'feel' - it's just a smooth and easy keypress. Green requires more force to press down a key, and will make the "click" noise when u press it. Brown and Blue fills in the middle). There's a black switch in there, but I've never tried it personally.
I'm not dismissing them out of hand, I've tried them. Just never played with one I liked more than what I've already got. Never got the whole "it improves your game" thing either. Moving to a laser mouse over optical, I can see that. A magnet field flight stick over potentiometers, I can DEFINITELY see that (tried the TM Warthog and a week later my pricey CH setup was on eBay and had been replaced with a Warthog). But a keypress is a keypress. I've got an original Apple black PowerMac keyboard (like Fm's), a Logitech Cordless Elite, and a Logitech G510. I can't tell a difference between any of them as far as responsiveness to keypresses, nor can I feel any non-uniformity in the keys. The only real difference is the spacing between keys is different. The Apple keyboard and G510 have a pretty similar tight feel, while the Cordless Elite has wider typo-eliminating spacing.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#34 macdude22

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:38 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 10 May 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Maybe thats the problem here. All keyboards that I have used and loved, have been Apple keyboards.

I'm telling you chupacabraj, a Matias board is the Apple Extended reincarnate. They are the keyboards Apple should still be making.
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#35 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 04:23 AM

View PostFrigidman™, on 09 May 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

I don't do wireless keyboards. Or mice. Any input device that is wireless I have loathed.
Absolutely agree. When Safari can't keep up with me typing, when using a wireless keyboard, then it is just a no go. I apparently open tabs and write addresses so fast that quite often when I go to a website that starts with a P, the print dialog pops up. And since I am already at the next tab after that, I've already pressed the return key. Free prints for everyone!
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#36 Frigidman™

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:37 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 10 May 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

I'm telling you chupacabraj, a Matias board is the Apple Extended reincarnate. They are the keyboards Apple should still be making.

Yup, and I've noted to look into them and try them out if they got em/let me. :)

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#37 Frost

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 04:18 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 11 May 2014 - 04:23 AM, said:

Absolutely agree. When Safari can't keep up with me typing, when using a wireless keyboard, then it is just a no go. I apparently open tabs and write addresses so fast that quite often when I go to a website that starts with a P, the print dialog pops up. And since I am already at the next tab after that, I've already pressed the return key. Free prints for everyone!
You just need to try a wireless keyboard that doesn't suck. :)

My Logitech Cordless Elite responds to input no differently or more slowly than a wired keyboard. Only difference is it needs its AAs recharged about once a year. And I type 100-120 wpm depending on how much of a hurry I'm in.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#38 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 05:52 PM

View PostFrost, on 11 May 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

You just need to try a wireless keyboard that doesn't suck. :)

My Logitech Cordless Elite responds to input no differently or more slowly than a wired keyboard. Only difference is it needs its AAs recharged about once a year. And I type 100-120 wpm depending on how much of a hurry I'm in.

It probably mostly has to do with the power saving features in the keyboard. Some wireless stuff like to go into sleep mode after about 0.1 seconds of inactivity.
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#39 Frigidman™

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 06:44 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 11 May 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

It probably mostly has to do with the power saving features in the keyboard. Some wireless stuff like to go into sleep mode after about 0.1 seconds of inactivity.

Same goes for a lot of mice I've tried that are wireless. They go to sleep and cause a hiccup when trying to use them. Some have too short of sleep timers than others, and its very very annoying.

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#40 Frost

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 04:57 PM

That would make sense. I wonder if that's a more common thing these days. This keyboard IS pretty damn old (turns 12 this fall).
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.