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How exactly does a 144hz LCD work out?


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#21 Frigidman™

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:37 PM

Oh yeah, this monitor is a wobbly frick. The OSD controls are on the "underneith" right bottom edge, and you have to push up to control the OSD. And even the slightest up push makes it wobble back in forth like a bobblehead. If my floor or desk was unstable, this thing would constantly be rocking side to side and would drive me crazy. I'm sure with lots of people, and anyone 'bumping' a table or desk, then they will all just go wibblewobble on everyone. Especially if anyone gets frustrated and hammers their fist down on the keyboard or mouse... it WILL shake all monitors on the same desk/table.

I was at BestBuy today (I never buy from them, I just visit hardware in person), and they had the VN247H-P up on display, and it has a serious thin bezel around it and very slim case (almost non-existant). I thought that the "VS" were the "Slim" models. Gah. I could do an 'exchange' with amazon for that one, and pay the difference (its like $10 more, and no rebate card offer). I did look at the VX, but had decided on this VS247H-P.

They have just too many dang models.

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#22 Frost

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:15 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 08 May 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

...

Maybe when the price drops on that ;)
Hehe, yeah. Still worth drooling over though. :P
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#23 Tetsuya

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:45 AM

I'm actually seriously considering getting an LG Chromebase to use as the monitor for my Mac, just because (the demo models had a feature where they coukd accept video/audio in via the rear HDMI port); itll be neat/convenient to just be able to use the ChromeOS for simple stuff and then switch to OSX wih a button press.  At 350$.... Its super tempting, particulalry since it is a pretty nice LG 21.5" panel that normally runs ~180$ anyway...

#24 Frigidman™

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 09:02 AM

View PostTetsuya, on 08 May 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Personally, i like the bulkier platform (the VN series) - my ASUS is sorta bulky but it is also rock steady.  Bumping the desk doesn't even move it.  The VX238H's are really skinny and unstable, IMO.  I mean, at home that's probably not a concern for most people, but since we have them deployed in a room with 500+ people in it... i worry about these things.

You know, I've looked at the pictures, and peoples reviews on newegg/amazon seem to make it sound like the VX238H has a more stable stand (despite its "thin ring look"). I can attest though that the very bit round base on this VS (which the VN has too), is wobbly. Seriously wobbly. All it takes is a slight bump and it tilts side to side for about 10 seconds till it settles down.

I have checked the one screw and its tight. So maybe visually the VX has a thinner looking base, but maybe its actually got the right structure so its not just a pin on a flat disk that bends? Maybe when your boss gets them in and one setup you can know for sure how it behaves in practice.

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#25 Frigidman™

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:08 AM

So, IF I exchange/return this ASUS VS247H-P, I have dwindled it to these possible replacements:

ASUS VX248H (http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B00GMGHCVG/)
ASUS VN247H-P (http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B00AVYNS7M/)

Just debating if the higher price (not on sale) on the VX is worth the supposedly better stand, VividPixel tech, and onboard "Game" features (which I know I'll most likely disable).

-Fm [1oM7]
"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#26 Tetsuya

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:32 AM

Hmm, i appear to have neither a VN or VX precursor - mine has a big hinged base, but i did buy it a few years ago.  

Unless you REALLY have to have it in 24" and can live with 23" instead.... the VX238H (same monitor, basically, in 23") is WAY cheaper.

http://slickdeals.ne...dmi-led-monitor

That's the new "EVO approved" model.

#27 Frigidman™

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:03 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 09 May 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Hmm, i appear to have neither a VN or VX precursor - mine has a big hinged base, but i did buy it a few years ago.  

Unless you REALLY have to have it in 24" and can live with 23" instead.... the VX238H (same monitor, basically, in 23") is WAY cheaper.

http://slickdeals.ne...dmi-led-monitor

That's the new "EVO approved" model.

I think you have the "VE" model? Which has the backward bezel top/bottom that flare out instead of in?

Right, the 23 I was thinking of for saving some bux. But then, I figured... if its under $200, I might as well get the 24". I just don't want to go over $200 *shrug*.

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#28 bobbob

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 07:46 PM

Is the wobbly one a vesa mount by any chance? Screwing the thing into a stud would probably make it a bit more solid.

#29 Frigidman™

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 07:50 PM

View Postbobbob, on 09 May 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

Is the wobbly one a vesa mount by any chance? Screwing the thing into a stud would probably make it a bit more solid.

Its wobbly with its stock stand that comes with it (which is a thin bar held by one screw in the middle of a flat disk). I don't have a VESA Arm on my desk to mount it too, but I imagine it would be far more sturdy with 4 screws straight into the back with an arm mount.

Speaking of which, I noticed I sometimes "bounce my left leg"... and it tends to shake the floor a bit (wood floors), which in turn goes to the desk, and then causes the monitor to start bobbleheading. Heh.

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"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#30 Frigidman™

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:56 PM

I sent the VS247H-P back to amazon. They took it and did a full refund, even paid for return shipping, which was nice of them.

I ordered the VX238H as a replacement. Was only $10 more, but is supposed to be nicer all around in terms of the issues I had with the VS (except dead pixels, but I won't know that till I get it tomorrow and hook it up). I'm hoping for the best... may need to sacrifice a modem to the technology gods to grant me favor.

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#31 Frost

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:52 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 09 May 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

Its wobbly with its stock stand that comes with it (which is a thin bar held by one screw in the middle of a flat disk). I don't have a VESA Arm on my desk to mount it too, but I imagine it would be far more sturdy with 4 screws straight into the back with an arm mount.

Speaking of which, I noticed I sometimes "bounce my left leg"... and it tends to shake the floor a bit (wood floors), which in turn goes to the desk, and then causes the monitor to start bobbleheading. Heh.
Hehe, this is where still using an old 95 pound monitor comes in handy. "Earthquake? What earthquake?"
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#32 Frigidman™

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:37 PM

Wow, I cant get a break here with buying a monitor.

I received it today (VX238H). Immediately upon using it with my PC, I noticed a horrible distortion during any movement of any window on the desktop. Keep in mind my OLD monitor (a ViewSonic) does not exhibit any of the issues I'm about to describe.

The distortion is a "dotting" of the straight lines. Think of a "cut here" dotted line, but wrapped all around windows and wherever a horizontal (and even vertical) line is on the screen that moves in any direction. This even happens in games when there are moving straight-line interfaces or objects. Its extremely distracting, and ugly as hell to say the least.

While stationary, this dotted effect goes away.

I have tried multiple cables, tried various Nvidia GPU card settings (its a 780 GTX), and tried every possible OSD menu setting on the monitor to fix/get rid of this horrible effect. Like I said above, nothing of this sort happens on my other monitor.

On top of that, the monitor has this very faint but noticeable visual 'buzz', like all the pixels are rolling in high frequency. Along with that, solid colors have this distinct vertical line phasing, every other pixel seems brighter or darker. Its very straining on the eyes. I cannot find a way to disable this 'effect'.

I tried to take photos of it with my camera, but its not a good enough camera to catch what I'm "seeing" with my eyes.

So, I emailed ASUS to ask "is this by design, or a bum unit... would a replacement of the same model be the same thing?". Am waiting a response before I ship this back to Amazon (poor Amazon)... because as it is now, this is absolutely WORSE than 3 black pixels on that VS247H-P I sent back :(

If ASUS claims its not normal, I will exchange. If not, then I'm going with a brand that is NOT ASUS.

-Fm [1oM7]
"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#33 Frigidman™

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:50 PM

PS: ASUS lied on the spec sheet saying it has D-SUB, HDMI, DVI connections. It has NO DVI connection port, just 2 HDMI and the D-SUB. So I have to use HDMI to connect the monitor. They 'supplied' a DVI to HDMI cable... I guess that is their meaning of "Has DVI Connection" =p lame.

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#34 Frost

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:26 PM

Egads, man.

Hate to say it, but maybe think of going higher with the monitor budget? Could be ASUS is just packing "it technically works" panels in their lower end models and shoveling them.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#35 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:28 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 15 May 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Wow, I cant get a break here with buying a monitor.

I received it today (VX238H). Immediately upon using it with my PC, I noticed a horrible distortion during any movement of any window on the desktop. Keep in mind my OLD monitor (a ViewSonic) does not exhibit any of the issues I'm about to describe.

The distortion is a "dotting" of the straight lines. Think of a "cut here" dotted line, but wrapped all around windows and wherever a horizontal (and even vertical) line is on the screen that moves in any direction. This even happens in games when there are moving straight-line interfaces or objects. Its extremely distracting, and ugly as hell to say the least.

While stationary, this dotted effect goes away.

I have tried multiple cables, tried various Nvidia GPU card settings (its a 780 GTX), and tried every possible OSD menu setting on the monitor to fix/get rid of this horrible effect. Like I said above, nothing of this sort happens on my other monitor.

On top of that, the monitor has this very faint but noticeable visual 'buzz', like all the pixels are rolling in high frequency. Along with that, solid colors have this distinct vertical line phasing, every other pixel seems brighter or darker. Its very straining on the eyes. I cannot find a way to disable this 'effect'.

I tried to take photos of it with my camera, but its not a good enough camera to catch what I'm "seeing" with my eyes.

So, I emailed ASUS to ask "is this by design, or a bum unit... would a replacement of the same model be the same thing?". Am waiting a response before I ship this back to Amazon (poor Amazon)... because as it is now, this is absolutely WORSE than 3 black pixels on that VS247H-P I sent back :(

If ASUS claims its not normal, I will exchange. If not, then I'm going with a brand that is NOT ASUS.

That's not normal. My Asus exhibits none of those things.
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#36 Frigidman™

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:14 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 15 May 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

That's not normal. My Asus exhibits none of those things.

Same model? (VX238H)

That prior VS247H-P I returned didn't do this. But then it was a 2ms, not a 1ms. Maybe this is ASUS's idea of 1ms, by doing some sort of weird pixel jitter which masks the idea of motion blur. I dunno, its garbage. Still waiting on ASUS to respond.

And yeah Frost...  I've raised my budget to $300 now, because I'm just getting fed up with these "gaming monitors" that turn out to be pure popsnizzle. Maybe "gamers" are all Console users and have no idea what even basic quality should be? ;) hehe, at least in terms of a computer's visual reproduction. I dunno.

So many rave reviews about the colors being great. *roll eyes* I've now fiddled with all the settings, and I cannot get this VX to the colors that the VS did, and nowhere near what my old ViewSonic does.

I know LCD don't do true blacks like a CRT, but there is still a range of acceptable black levels. I've seen it on all my MacBookPros, my 7yo ViewSonic, and even my Insignia HDTV. The VS did a good job of hitting that acceptable level (after bringing its brightness down). But this VX holy crap! "Standard" "sRGB" "Game Mode" "Night View Mode" are all so washed out the black level is about a 25% gray. Its laughable. Only by setting it to "Theater" mode does it do something internally where all that gray darkens down a bit more. However even with Brightness at 1, its still much much lighter gray than my ViewSonic sitting right next to it.

:(

I'm thinking of getting another ViewSonic now haha. Hrm. I don't want IPS, as every one of those I've tried has this awful blurring effect when moving anything. Even on desktop, it blurs text so bad when you just shift a window. Its gross.

So Frost... do they still sell CRT ? LOL!

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"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#37 Frost

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:16 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 15 May 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

And yeah Frost...  I've raised my budget to $300 now, because I'm just getting fed up with these "gaming monitors" that turn out to be pure popsnizzle. Maybe "gamers" are all Console users and have no idea what even basic quality should be? ;) hehe, at least in terms of a computer's visual reproduction. I dunno.

I bet you that's exactly it. "Gaming" as in someone who plugs in an Xbox 360 over HDMI, and as long as there is an image, is satisfied.

Meanwhile, ASUS is all, "Hey, we can ship crap for pennies, still make a profit, and people think it's amazing! Let's do more of that!"

View PostFrigidman™, on 15 May 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

So Frost... do they still sell CRT ? LOL!

Heh. NOW YOU SEE THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE! Yeah, there's a reason these were $2200 back in 2002. There's a HP rebadged version of my 24" 16:10 CRT on Craigslist here in Houston for $150 right now though. :P

I have been mulling over picking it up as a spare incase mine dies one day. Unfortunately the HP ones are stark white instead of the gray (original Sony) or dark gray (SGI rebadge, which is mine). Not a fan of that, so I'm thinking I won't.
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Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#38 Frigidman™

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:40 PM

This is what makes me cringe when I read about monitors for gaming: "Game Mode provides heightened visibility and detail by brightening dark scenes." ... uhhhh WHAT? Brightening the dark areas? WTF?!? I guess "game mode" means "screw all amounts of immersion mode" ? or "lets cheat by showing just wireframe mode" ???

Heh... such nonsense.

-Fm [1oM7]
"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#39 Frost

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:51 PM

Yeah, blacks that aren't black just... IRK me. I went from my LaCie Electron19 III CRT to a ViewSonic VP2650WB LCD back in 2008, but I ended up rarely using it and eventually sold it and went to the SGI monitor I have now because I was sick and tired of seeing gray blacks and backlight bleed.
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.0 GHz i7 4790K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Samsung 950 Pro M.2, 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / GeForce GTX TITAN X 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 2TB Samsung 850 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#40 bobbob

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:26 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 15 May 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

The distortion is a "dotting" of the straight lines. Think of a "cut here" dotted line, but wrapped all around windows and wherever a horizontal (and even vertical) line is on the screen that moves in any direction. This even happens in games when there are moving straight-line interfaces or objects. Its extremely distracting, and ugly as hell to say the least.
That kind of sounds like the overdrive thing some displays do to keep the latency down. Turn off the scaler chip with a game mode or whatever arcane method the OSD calls for, plus whatever option they've got for turning off overdrive.

EDIT: The TraceFree thing is what Asus calls overdrive, so turn that off. Asus' game mode also still goes through their 'splendid' scaler chip crap, so maybe turn it to some other mode (sRGB?). And you'll want to calibrate it. Eco mode limits the grey levels, so turn that off too if you hate crush. ASCR - Asus smart contrast ratio - is where it turns the backlight down to get lower black levels. I find my Dell has a slight delay when it does this, plus it ramps up and down as you switch windows or content and it's slightly disconcerting when the backlight is so very bright and blinks on or off as content changes, so I just leave my Dell's version off.

EDIT: from that site, if you wanted a better display maybe lightboost would be the answer? Plus, there's adaptive sync coming up, which would be nice, too.

Quote

I don't want IPS, as every one of those I've tried has this awful blurring effect when moving anything. Even on desktop, it blurs text so bad when you just shift a window. Its gross.
My $180 23" Dell IPS (1080p60) seems fine. If I move a window too fast it's got a slight motion blur, but you'd only fix that with a faster LCD whether it's IPS or not. Just dragging a window to move it (without flinging it), and the text is sharp.