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Why are YOU Anti-Steam?


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#1 Frigidman™

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:56 AM

And if you are NOT anti-Steam... why?

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#2 Frost

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:30 PM

That's a tough question. I like the service, I like the sales, I like the convenience. I like Big Picture mode's ability to quickly and easily turn my TV + Tiki into a game console that annihilates the PS4 and XBone.

I don't like that someone somewhere could ban or delete my account, however unlikely it is to happen, and almost my entire library of games disappears with no more than a "sucks to be you." That kind of bothers me in the back of my mind sometimes. Not even Microsoft or Sony could do that to me; they could only take away multiplayer.

I like GOG's business model better where I get an installer that will always be mine and that I can back up and there is no DRM. I would gladly take that and use Raptr as my game launcher and service to go fully DRM free. But I realize big publishers are going to go for that pretty much never. So Steam's the best solution other than that. It's certainly miles better than EA Origin.
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#3 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:55 PM

I like the sales, i like up to date apps. I like that they made more games come to Mac. I like how they actually seem to cater to gamers and not just sell to sell. But really, reason one is why I use Steam.

I hate the DRM, i don't like having to open an app (And having it do all its adds/countless updates/load web stuff) before I can start a game), i dont like sending all of my money to one ginormeous store that has piles of it already. And i dont like the games not really being mine, as Frost mentioned.

Oh, and they don't mind me throwing dung.

edit: And I loathe how they use a custom design for windows. Took them years to make it fast, and it still acts weird most of the time.
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#4 MichalM.Mac

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 05:57 PM

Why I like Steam
1) Steamplay (if I buy crappy port, there is a Windows version as a last resort)
2) Sales
3) Social features

Why I hate steam
1) Client Application is basically slow web browser. (Valve doesn't use WebKit in OSX version, righ?)
I see a lot of beachballs (especially when working with big game files), Sometimes crashes when quiting application.
2) Steam.app is not very OSX-like. Valve often doesn't follow OS X Human Interface Guidelines and best practices (peek inside .app bundle Contents/MacOS … yuck!)

#5 mattw

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:20 PM

Very similar for me:

Pros

Easy to manage a large collection of games

Automatic updates and cloud saves

Good pricing especially the flash sales

Far less hassle than the DVD in drive requirements of old especially when your library grows

Cons

Having to launch the client to play most games (In contrast to GOG, MGS or Feral store for example)

Client is still not very Mac like in terms of design and can be slow/buggy especially after relaunching following an update - you are usually better off browsing the store pages and forums (discussions) in Safari and only using the client to buy and launch the games.

Support often assume you have a Windows PC

Can be addictive building a collection of games with the sales....

Small risk of loosing access if anything happened to Value or Mac support but no worse than other DRM only DRM free is better but unlikely for triple A titles at present.
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#6 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:01 PM

Everyone else already mentioned the stuff that I like about Steam such as the sales. Stuff like not requiring a DVD in the drive is something common to all Digital Distribution stores though not just steam.

Also, requiring the client to launch with the game may be something to not like but what I do like is how it has hours tracking that can be integrated with services like raptr. I also like simple stuff like how the client can automatically set your status if you are playing a game.  I wish we had a standalone raptr client for OS X that can do the same thing with my non-steam games.

I too wish the UI could be made more mac like... the best I can do at the moment is to use a Mac'ish skin such as Apparition. The problem with third party skins though is they tend to get out of date due to all the updates Valve does to Steam breaking them. People including myself have been doing some work to upgrade Apparition however... this skin is of course only "skin deep" and doesn't affect the behaviour of the app (and to answer a question above Valve does use Webkit in the OS X version)....

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Also, I joined in the debate at duke4 one time over "steam dependence: are you capable of gaming without steam"... and most there seemed to focus on all the bad of Steam and focus on all the good of GoG. No one realized that GoG has a clause that says they can ban you from their service for any reason and unless have downloaded your games you can lose access to them there too in that event. Not that I was or am taking sides I am a customer of both. I'd rather get games at either of those than say... the Mac App Store because at least at those places you'd more likely be able to get access to the PC versions as well. I mostly only use the Mac App store for Mac Apps... not games. I've also bought some games direct from Feral which doesn't give one access to the PC versions but IMHO they have earned the benefit of the doubt that they'd come up with a good port that has all the features I want. Also sometimes convenience trumps everything else so I've bought a game or two from the IMG Mac Games Store.

People here seem to be relatively more rational when it comes to Steam than at other sites (like duke4) though so good job people. :happy:
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#7 Frigidman™

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:30 PM

We constantly see very angry customers who are all upset that we didn't vividly express that a game requires steam before they blindly bought it. I think though, angry people tend to come to the surface more than those who like something. Easier to rant, than praise, I guess. Oh, and its always our fault that a game requires steam. Dare they even blame the publisher/developers for forcing steam ;)

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#8 mindnoise

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:54 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 07 December 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

[ we didn't vividly express that a game requires steam before they blindly bought it.] ;)

Pardon me but is your statement not contradictory?
if you don't 'express' (aka: notify/ exclaim?!) the requirement of Steam, how can people NOT blindly buy it.

BTW: the Steam or not Steam DRM ist getting kinda pointless. If you hate not 'owning' 100% of you Software don't buy from it and get your greed under control, instead. Buy only from GOG.com or Devolopers offering DRM Free software.

Also the reasoning that Steam will sometime in the future cease to exist is kinda void. IF Valve as a Gabe Newell company will go down, someone else will pick it up and essentially nothing will change. The chances for that happing are right now about similar to Apple going bankrupt. And then you are sitting there without even a computer to run your 'owned' software.

And Apple, with all their transitioning in Hardware an OS has rendered my 'owned' software simply unusable far more often than any other computer related company. And still I am using a Mac, stupid as I am. Steam on the other hand has not failed me a single time since 2006.
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#9 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:03 PM

Even if it's DRM free you most likely don't 100% own it due to the EULA. You only *think* you do. This has been a thing for decades now... The idea that you don't own the content just the right to use it and or the physical media it came on. DRM simply gives them a means to enforce that.

Also.. and something I forgot to mention earlier and frankly I shouldn't have to as it's so plainly obvious. GoG hardly carries any new releases at all and doesn't do very many if any native Mac ports. So that's OK if you have a strong taste for the classics and don't mind having wrapped games as your main source of entertainment. Also, you better have a strong taste for indie titles and forget about getting games from Aspyr or Feral. They have DRM and are getting into Steam more and more.

Also, let's say Apple did go bankrupt today... your computer wouldn't just poof in a cloud of smoke and leave you with nothing... and going bankrupt wouldn't necessarily mean they would cease to exist. Your hardware would continue to function and if push comes to shove you could switch to another OS. When it comes to buying a new system though you'd have to turn elsewhere if they ceased to exist. *edit* On the other hand if GoG and Steam BOTH did vanish you'd lose access to download your games you haven't downloaded yet. GoG games being DRM free would work as is but you'd have to crack your Steam games for them to be usable in the case of Steam vanishing. Not happening anytime soon though.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#10 Frigidman™

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:13 PM

View Postmindnoise, on 08 December 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Pardon me but is your statement not contradictory?
if you don't 'express' (aka: notify/ exclaim?!) the requirement of Steam, how can people NOT blindly buy it.

Change your tone.

I said: "who are all upset that we didn't vividly express that a game requires steam before they blindly bought it"

The point (clearly) being, we DO express it and they ARE blindly buying it. But they are pissed that its not super monstrously expressed with a gigantic 512x512 icon and flashing graphics.

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#11 mindnoise

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:16 PM

right on Smoke_Tetsu.

Of course your computer won't vaporize, heck even my Amiga works great today and thats 20years. You can always make a computer time capsule. For some people it will be enough to conserve what you have. But if this a concernt to you, then services like Steam are no option anyway. So either way you have to sacrifice one thing or the other.
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#12 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:21 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 08 December 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

But they are pissed that its not super monstrously expressed with a gigantic 512x512 icon and flashing graphics.
512x512 is the gigantic icon? Get with the times! The gigantic icon is now 1024x1024 HiDPI. ;)

View Postmindnoise, on 08 December 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Of course your computer won't vaporize, heck even my Amiga works great today and thats 20years.

That's right, there are even companies still working on Amiga software and even hardware. http://www.amigaos.net/

But anyway.. yeah, if you are afraid paranoid of losing access to stuff from companies vanishing you have to give up pretty much all cloud services. Not just Steam... it doesn't deserve all the negativity. You're only safe bet is physical media that doesn't include DRM but then again physical media can be damaged and or lost or rendered obsolete. :P I have lots of old CD's and DVD's that I don't use any more because it's obsolete and this is across Mac, Windows and even other operating systems. Hell, if it weren't for the internet I wouldn't have access to most games I had on floppies because all mine either got lost or corrupted sometime within the past 20+ years! Not to mention I don't even have floppy drives any more.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#13 mindnoise

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostFrigidman™, on 08 December 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

Change your tone.

I said: "who are all upset that we didn't vividly express that a game requires steam before they blindly bought it"

The point (clearly) being, we DO express it and they ARE blindly buying it. But they are pissed that its not super monstrously expressed with a gigantic 512x512 icon and flashing graphics.

sorry, did not catch the underlying sarcasm :unsure:
but instead some strange hope that people (customers) aren't getting more stupid by the day don't come as uneducated as it gets. Seems like a really itchy spot for you.
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#14 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:30 PM

You know what in my opinion is a lot worse than current "whipping boy" Steam? Onlive... At least with Steam you have the game files and executables on your hard drive where if necessary they can be modified and or set free by Valve in the event they go bankrupt (as they have always promised would happen in that event). Let's say you invested a lot of money in an Onlive library. What can you do if you don't have access to it either by them going under or by you simply not having internet access or getting banned or whatever... That's right... you lose everything and there's nothing you could have done beforehand like back up your games as there's nothing to back up! Onlive is the end game of DRM!
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#15 Tetsuya

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:38 AM

Is the having-to-launch-the-client thing a Mac Steam thing?

Because on Windows i have desktop shortcuts for almost all of my Steam games that i regularly play and they just launch straight away.  

You can also back up all your Steam Installers to a separate folder or external media of any kind (its like... two or three clicks of the mouse at most); if Steam were to die in the future you could.... ah, still use the software that you legally purchased with some 3rd party software options.  

I used to hate the service because it was slow, draconian, user-unfriendly, and the sales that now make Steam famous had never once happened.  

Then Valve got their act together, spent a few years tuning it, started offering the now famous sales, and made backing up your games to your own physical media easy and playing in offline mode easy as well.  Now, i'm a fan of the service.

#16 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:01 AM

Nope it's not a Mac Steam thing per say. Mac Steam isn't the only one that enforces having to log into Steam to play your Steam games.

If you check your system tray I can bet you dollars to pesos that there's a Steam icon in there that's resident whenever you have launched a game you purchased in Steam.... or just in general as it stays there even when you close the Steam window (and it's not in your taskbar) and or when you start Windows. That's how it's always been for me. On the other hand... the Mac version of Steam doesn't let you run it in the menubar like the Windows Steam client runs in the system tray. It only runs in the dock... So people tend to close it out completely thusly they then have to launch it to play a game from Steam.... as opposed to Windows where it tends to run all the time in the background but in your system tray. Not letting one run it in the menubar *IS* a Mac thing though.. I've noticed Steam lets you do that in Linux as well when I tried it out on my notebook running Ubuntu. Steam for Linux puts an icon in its menubar\system tray.

Of course there are always exceptions and there are a few games that are DRM free on Steam and can be run without Steam by launching the game directly from its folder. But that's not the case with all games just a select few... like the Rise of The Triad 2013 reboot. So again *points above*.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

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Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

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#17 Tetsuya

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:13 PM

Oh, i know about Steam being open in the background in the system tray; i thought you were saying you had to open up the steam client and run them that way no matter what.  

We were talking about two slightly different scenarios.

#18 Frigidman™

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:06 PM

I wish the Mac Steam client would stop spawning off a unresponsive feedback reporter in activity monitor, using up 100% CPU (one of my cores). My PC Steam client never does this.

Using Steam on both Mac and PC, I have to say I absolutely hate it on my Mac, but live by it on my PC. Its to the point now on the PC where I won't even buy a game if its not Steam activated/managed. Kinda scary huh?

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#19 Frost

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:21 PM

Oddly enough it's been the opposite experience for me. Since one of the summer updates Steam's been relatively flawless under OSX on my MacBook Pro. Meanwhile under Win8.1 it's had like ten jillion bootstrapper quits. Although that seems to have gone away with the December update, so hopefully they fixed that finally.
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When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#20 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:25 PM

Steam runs pretty stable for me in both OS X and Win8.1. Only complaint is that it looks TERRIBLE on a retina screen. They have literally 0 Hi-DPI textures or images.

I love everything about Steam other then the occasional hang or crash. I really prefer getting Steam keys for all my games, but deal with Origin for the EA exclusives.
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