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WWDC 2013


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#21 Cougar

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 10 June 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

The new multitasking manager is almost to 100% a copy of Android's and the overall look reminds me of Windows 8 (mainly due to the font). So much for innovation.

Apple used Helvetica Neue first! When the MacBook Air came out. But seriously, who cares? There was plenty of other stuff that was innovative. I loved Shiller's "Innovative, my ass!" comment.

I'm guessing that Mac Pro is not going to be good for games, as it comes with Workstation-class graphics cards. (tho maybe there will be an option?) It's not a gaming machine, even if we all want it to be one.

View PostJanichsan, on 10 June 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I'm surprised that it still runs on the iPhone 4, but then again most changes seem to be user interface related. Still not sure whether I would update my iPhone 4 with it (I'm still running iOS 5).

I'm guessing it will run better due to all those power-saving features that they had to add (which OS X will have, yay!) for full backgrounding.

But then, they have those useless physics effects going on with the UI, so maybe not..

#22 Janichsan

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:53 PM

View PostCougar, on 10 June 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Apple used Helvetica Neue first! When the MacBook Air came out.
You mean the font used here?
Posted Image Posted Image

That's actually the extra light Myriad Pro.

Apple does in fact use Helvetica Neue for a while now, as interface font on iOS, but not in the ultralight variant they are using now.

One last thing before I sign off: what has not been mentioned in the keynote is the new Airport Time Capsule with 802.11ac wifi and up to 3 GB storage space. And a new design.

Look at it...

Posted Image
:bleedingeyes:

(EDIT: There's also a new Airport Extreme base station – it looks the same...)

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#23 Atticus

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:57 PM

Let me save everyone the electrons re: Mac Pro:

iTrashcan? Can it double as planter? Looks like a coffee maker, No internal expansion is a no-go, parallels to the Cube, it will fail, will be too expensive with SSD-only option, no optical drive wtf, weak AMD graphics, I hate it, Steve would've never done this, Apple is doomed, APPL drops 400% in after-hours trading, this was the worst WWDC ever, I'm building a PC, death, hate, you're ugly, your mom wears wooden shoes, etc, etc, etc.
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#24 Cougar

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:25 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 10 June 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

That's actually the extra light Myriad Pro.

Yeah, guess I was wrong.


And yeah, the Time Capsule is bizarre. Like someone took the old extreme in photoshop and streatched it. And no new Airport Express? Not paying $200 for an ac router...

Anybody remember this?

Posted Image

That's the 20th anniversary Mac speaker. Remind you of something?

#25 ikir

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:10 PM

http://www.apple.com...chnologies.html

Awesome. The New Mac pro is incredible too, the thermal system is genius. Ram is expandable, SSD too. You simply don't have PCI express but with Thunderbolt you can achieve that with external chassis. I think in the future most of those things we plug in PCI Express will be available in Thunderbolt cases too.
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#26 Tetsuya

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:46 PM

Even thunderbolt 2.0 is still too slow for the actual Pro uses of PCIe, is the problem.  Halfish of the bandwidth of a 16x PCIe slot...

This thing is murderously full of fail.

#27 ikir

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:08 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 10 June 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Even thunderbolt 2.0 is still too slow for the actual Pro uses of PCIe, is the problem.  Halfish of the bandwidth of a 16x PCIe slot...

This thing is murderously full of fail.
Most of the card doesn't use full 16x bandwidth. I think instead this Mac Pro is incredible.
The only real problem can be indeed the gfx card if user's can't update it. We will see :)
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#28 Tetsuya

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 05:18 PM

Add to that all the lovely clutter that is going to fill up your desk....  

this isn't a step forward.  They could have put these internals into a small form factor case and still made it upgradeable.  My BitFeenix Prodigy PC case could fit all of these internals, PLUS a full-size PCI-express video card, PLUS 5 drives.... and still be substantially smaller than the current machine.  

The machine's internals are fine.  The iMac/Mini-like "user cant upgrade a damn thing" is the problem.

#29 ltcommander.data

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:46 PM

http://codervil.blog...n-os-x-109.html

So OpenGL is bumped up to 4.1 Core profile. Apple certainly isn't rushing to keep up to date with the latest spec. Hopefully they at least have Computer Shaders as a supported extension since its use will only grow in DX11 and next-gen console games.

#30 Janichsan

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:20 AM

View Postikir, on 10 June 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

The only real problem can be indeed the gfx card if user's can't update it. We will see :)
100% sure you can't upgrade the graphics card. You might be able to take them out, but there won't be anything you can replace them with. The built-in graphic cards are no standard form factor but taylor-made for the new Mac Pro.

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#31 The Liberator

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:29 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 11 June 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

100% sure you can't upgrade the graphics card. You might be able to take them out, but there won't be anything you can replace them with. The built-in graphic cards are no standard form factor but taylor-made for the new Mac Pro.
Then what's the fire trucking point of it?* No mass storage, no upgradable GPU, and the only thing it has going for it (in my mind) is the Thunderbolt, but this is not a positive, as that is what should have been added anyway.

*That's a rhetorical question. ;)

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#32 ltcommander.data

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:11 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 11 June 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

100% sure you can't upgrade the graphics card. You might be able to take them out, but there won't be anything you can replace them with. The built-in graphic cards are no standard form factor but taylor-made for the new Mac Pro.
When Apple releases new Mac Pros with new GPUs, to date they've consistently made those new GPUs available separately in the Apple Store for previous-gen Mac Pro users to upgrade to. Admittedly Apple's new designs continue to trend toward less upgradability, but it's still possible that Apple will continue the practice of making the GPUs in a future 2014 Mac Pro available to the 2013 gen Mac Pro. Assuming they don't change the case or internal design every year they should be directly compatible. If not hopefully AMD and/or nVidia or their partners will continue to offer third-party upgrades. Given the increased costs of the custom form factor there probably isn't as large a market to offer several competing GPU options as there is today, but you'd think it'd be worthwhile for someone to offer at least 1 third-party GPU for upgraders.

#33 Janichsan

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:22 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 10 June 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Apple also seems to have done away with Myriad Pro and now uses what appears to be Helvetica for their brand names. Truth to be told: it looks a lot like Microsoft's font design lately...
I'll take that back: the brand names are still mostly* in Myriad Pro, albeit in a lighter variant.

(* The "7" in iOS 7 isn't.)

View Postltcommander.data, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

If not hopefully AMD and/or nVidia or their partners will continue to offer third-party upgrades. Given the increased costs of the custom form factor there probably isn't as large a market to offer several competing GPU options as there is today, but you'd think it'd be worthwhile for someone to offer at least 1 third-party GPU for upgraders.
You mean like they did when the iMacs had their GPUs on this custom-built additional board and thus were theoretically replaceable?

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#34 ltcommander.data

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:58 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 11 June 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

You mean like they did when the iMacs had their GPUs on this custom-built additional board and thus were theoretically replaceable?
The difference is the Mac Pro internals looks user accessible since the tube wall comes off in one piece to allow access to the RAM slots, but which also exposes the boards for the CPU and GPU. In contrast, the iMac screen is not intended to be removed and even if it is, the GPU is buried under the motherboard and isn't easily accessed.

#35 Janichsan

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:23 AM

A hidden gem: OS X 10.9 and iOS 7 will have a game controller framework! And a sprite kit framework – with built-in (2D) physics engine! (You'll need a Apple Developer account to access these links.)

Frameworks for games, people! From Apple! Who would have expected this?

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#36 Eric5h5

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:51 AM

Nice...maybe companies-who-aren't-Feral will stop with the "Xbox 360 controller only" nonsense.  (Which there wasn't really an excuse for in the first place, but anyway.)

--Eric

#37 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:11 AM

Seems that the new Macbook Airs reach up to 800 MB/sec read/write speeds... Very impressive!
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#38 ltcommander.data

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:33 AM

http://arstechnica.c...-run-os-x-10-8/

10.9 should support every Mac that currently runs 10.8. If the price remains low it should see rapid, broad adoption. When next-gen consoles launch most games will likely go DX11 only so having OpenGL 4.1 available on as many Macs as possible should be great for porting houses so they don't have to worry about how to make the game work in OpenGL 3.2.

#39 doh123

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:19 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 10 June 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Even thunderbolt 2.0 is still too slow for the actual Pro uses of PCIe, is the problem.  Halfish of the bandwidth of a 16x PCIe slot...

This thing is murderously full of fail.
why would you say that?
PCIe v3.0 x16 slot can do 15.75 GB/s ... Thunderbolt 2 is 20 GB/s.  Now if you get up to PCIe 4.0, then an x16 slot can get faster at 31.51 GB/s.  For 99% of peoples uses currently, they are not saturating what Thunderbolt 2 can handle.  Question though... is anyone even using PCIe 4.0 yet?  Last i checked it wasn't even finalized.

#40 Hansi

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:48 PM

View Postdoh123, on 11 June 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

why would you say that?
PCIe v3.0 x16 slot can do 15.75 GB/s ... Thunderbolt 2 is 20 GB/s.  Now if you get up to PCIe 4.0, then an x16 slot can get faster at 31.51 GB/s.  For 99% of peoples uses currently, they are not saturating what Thunderbolt 2 can handle.  Question though... is anyone even using PCIe 4.0 yet?  Last i checked it wasn't even finalized.

Isn't it 20 Gbits/s for Thunderbolt 2?