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::Tap tap tap:: This thing on?


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#1 the Battle Cat

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:11 PM

Calling to you from the Mountain Lion underground command post deep in the bowels of a hidden bunker somewhere under the brick and steel of a nondescript building...

I finally made the jump from Snow Leopard to Mountain Lion.  So far so good, download went well, created a USB install disk with Lion Diskmaker, and did the install.  Piece of cake and it isn't all iOSed to hell like I feared.  

Think it's time to get some Borderlands 2 going on.
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#2 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:30 PM

It is not as bad as Lion, but I still vastly prefer SL.
"They're everywhere!"

And now, time for some Legend of Zelda.

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#3 the Battle Cat

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

I do too, though I have to have this OS to keep up with the software.  Stupid Apple screwed my scroll wheel on backwards and called it "Natural".  Dumb popsnizzles.

I have no use for iCloud and I can't just open some applications anymore, I have to click through the iCloud window.  No Apple, no thanks.  Let me keep YOUR personal files on MY hard disk... chumps.
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#4 Frigidman™

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

Hehe. Only the tip of the fascist iceberg known as the new apple OS developers.

I like Snow Leopard too. Lion is a 'never' to me, and I really don't want Mtn Lion unless its an absolute requirement. The fact they removed ALL support for PPC software makes me say no to it because I still need Rosetta for a few old things I have yet to find a quality replacement for.

Maybe 10.9 will actually be a step back in the right direction ;) LOLOLOL doubtful.

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#5 Eric5h5

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 04 February 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Stupid Apple screwed my scroll wheel on backwards and called it "Natural".

You can change that in the preferences.

--Eric

#6 the Battle Cat

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

I did that already, that's how I knew they called it "Natural".  How do I get "Save As..." back or is that gone forever.
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#7 Frost

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:44 PM

Yeah, Mountain Lion's really not bad. All the iOS whining seems to have just been the Launchpad, App Store, and notifications, the first two of which you can just ignore if you don't like them, and the last you can just turn off.

Some stuff to keep in mind moving to Mountain Lion:
  • Go to System Prefs->Notifications, and take Mail out of the notification center and turn off banners. Otherwise it's going to be driving you mad with banners and notifications with every. single. e-mail.
  • "Save As..." has been replaced with "Duplicate" which functions a tad differently.
  • The scroll wheel is reversed. Uncheck natural under mouse to fix that. One annoying thing is if you like natural scrolling on for the trackpad but not the mouse, you can't have it both ways. Get Scroll Reverser (free) and it fixes that.
  • Go to System Prefs->Security & Privacy, and set "Allow applications downloaded from:" to "Anywhere" so the MacOS doesn't give you guff about running third party applications.
  • If you're in the habit of keeping things at the top level of your hard disk, it might be time to change that or be annoyed to death. Doing anything in there will now bring up a prompt for your password for every single thing you do.
  • If you liked the old look of Mail better, do these two things: Go to Preferences->Viewing and check "Use classic layout." Then go to View and select Show Mailbox List. Voila, Mail looks (mostly) like it used to.
  • If friends/family have iOS devices or newer Macs, you can use Messages to shoot messages back and forth with them. For example you know my mac.com address; you could send a message that way over Messages anytime and it'd pop up on my MacBook Pro, iPod Touch, and iPad mini.
  • The user Library has been hidden from view to keep the peasants from messing up their own stuff. Undo this by opening Terminal and typing: "chflags nohidden ~/Library"  This'll make your user library visible again, but OS updates will usually rehide it and you'll need to do that again, so keep the command handy somewhere.
Anyway, I don't have the luxury of not upgrading either, so I think the answer is to just keep your old PowerPC Mac around and use it for PowerPC stuff if for some reason you can't dual boot. Apple Remote Desktop really is the popsnizzle for stuff like that unless you're playing games or something; I installed it on all three of my regular use machines, so I can run Classic on my PowerBook, PPC stuff at its fastest on my PowerMac G5, and Intel stuff on my MacBook Pro and control the other two from whatever machine I happen to be at over the network. For example I've often got Messages open and am chatting with a friend on my MacBook Pro, from my G5 while working on said G5.

As far as iCloud goes, well. iCloud is handy for keeping your mail, calendars, reminders, etc. synced between devices, but as for photos, documents, files, programs... meh. I moved to Dropbox after Apple cut all us iDisk people off for not having brand new Macs. I like it way better than iDisk ever was, and certainly more than iCloud's weird setup. It's basically a folder on your Mac that stays exactly the same across all your Macs (and iOS devices), and you don't have to frak with it all the time like iDisk to keep it working. What's more Dropbox does integration with the MacOS better than Apple's stuff does. And it works on literally any Mac as long as it can run at least 10.4 Tiger, making it the only option that acknowledges that PowerPC Macs are still in use. (They're still doing that 500MB for you, 500MB for a friend bonus, so find an IMGer with Dropbox and sign up as a referral if you decide to use it.)

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Cypher (PowerMac G5 Quad) – 2x2.5 GHz PPC 970MP / 16GB ECC RAM / 1TB WDC Velociraptor, 2TB STX Constellation ES.2 / QuadroFX 4500 512MB
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.2 GHz Ci7 4770K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Crucial M550 M.2, 3TB STX Barracuda / GeForce GTX TITAN 6GB
Chromium (MacBook Pro Early 2008) – 2.6 GHz C2D T9500 / 4GB RAM / 960GB Crucial M500 / GeForce 8600M GT 512MB
Antimony (PowerBook G4 Titanium) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 480GB OWC Mercury Legacy Pro / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#8 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:33 PM

View PostFrigidman, on 04 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Hehe. Only the tip of the fascist iceberg known as the new apple OS developers.

I like Snow Leopard too. Lion is a 'never' to me, and I really don't want Mtn Lion unless its an absolute requirement. The fact they removed ALL support for PPC software makes me say no to it because I still need Rosetta for a few old things I have yet to find a quality replacement for.

Maybe 10.9 will actually be a step back in the right direction ;) LOLOLOL doubtful.

I thought 10.5 was the last OS with rosetta?
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#9 Eric5h5

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:14 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 04 February 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

I thought 10.5 was the last OS with rosetta?

You thought wrong.  Wrong wrong wrong!  Wrongity wrong.

--Eric

#10 Frigidman™

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:22 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 04 February 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

I thought 10.5 was the last OS with rosetta?

10.6. It doesnt come 'on' by default, and will ask you the first time you run something PPC. But after that first time (after a clean OS install) rosetta is now 'on' and wont ask again. However in 10.7 onwards, they ripped it out entirely.

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#11 Frost

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:28 PM

You can also install Rosetta by clicking on the customization button while installing 10.6 and checkmarking it.
Cypher (PowerMac G5 Quad) – 2x2.5 GHz PPC 970MP / 16GB ECC RAM / 1TB WDC Velociraptor, 2TB STX Constellation ES.2 / QuadroFX 4500 512MB
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.2 GHz Ci7 4770K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Crucial M550 M.2, 3TB STX Barracuda / GeForce GTX TITAN 6GB
Chromium (MacBook Pro Early 2008) – 2.6 GHz C2D T9500 / 4GB RAM / 960GB Crucial M500 / GeForce 8600M GT 512MB
Antimony (PowerBook G4 Titanium) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 480GB OWC Mercury Legacy Pro / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#12 Tetsuya

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:38 PM

Isn't there a way to run 10.6 at near-native speeds in a Parallells VM (and keep Rosetta that way)?

#13 Frost

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:40 PM

Yep, two ways. One is to get ahold of Snow Leopard Server and run it in Parallels. Expensive ($100-200 depending on your luck and how many eBayers are looking for it at the given time), but 100% legal and it's easy as 1-2-3.

Or, you can run the consumer version of Snow Leopard, but you have to bypass some things in order to fool it into thinking it's Snow Leopard Server. I don't remember exactly what the process was because I've not done it, but it's doable. It's of questionable legality since that's against the license for the regular version of SL (although not Server, hence no issues with virtualiziing it).

When I eventually make the jump to a Mac Pro, my plan is to budget for acquiring 10.6 Server on eBay as well so I can bring my PowerPC goodies from my G5 along for the ride under Parallels as I'm assuming the next Mac Pro refresh will probably drop the ability to boot into anything earlier than 10.8.
Cypher (PowerMac G5 Quad) – 2x2.5 GHz PPC 970MP / 16GB ECC RAM / 1TB WDC Velociraptor, 2TB STX Constellation ES.2 / QuadroFX 4500 512MB
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.2 GHz Ci7 4770K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Crucial M550 M.2, 3TB STX Barracuda / GeForce GTX TITAN 6GB
Chromium (MacBook Pro Early 2008) – 2.6 GHz C2D T9500 / 4GB RAM / 960GB Crucial M500 / GeForce 8600M GT 512MB
Antimony (PowerBook G4 Titanium) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 480GB OWC Mercury Legacy Pro / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#14 Janichsan

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:29 AM

View PostFrost, on 04 February 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

  • "Save As..." has been replaced with "Duplicate" which functions a tad differently.
Actually, Mountain Lion re-introduced "Save As..." in all applications. By default, you'd have to hold down the option key, but it's pretty easy to exchange "Duplicate" and "Save As..." by editing the keyboard shortcuts in the System Preferences.

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#15 Frost

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:34 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 05 February 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Actually, Mountain Lion re-introduced "Save As..." in all applications. By default, you'd have to hold down the option key, but it's pretty easy to exchange "Duplicate" and "Save As..." by editing the keyboard shortcuts in the System Preferences.
Ooh!

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Cypher (PowerMac G5 Quad) – 2x2.5 GHz PPC 970MP / 16GB ECC RAM / 1TB WDC Velociraptor, 2TB STX Constellation ES.2 / QuadroFX 4500 512MB
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 4.2 GHz Ci7 4770K / 16GB RAM / 512GB Crucial M550 M.2, 3TB STX Barracuda / GeForce GTX TITAN 6GB
Chromium (MacBook Pro Early 2008) – 2.6 GHz C2D T9500 / 4GB RAM / 960GB Crucial M500 / GeForce 8600M GT 512MB
Antimony (PowerBook G4 Titanium) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 480GB OWC Mercury Legacy Pro / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#16 the Battle Cat

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:10 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 05 February 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Actually, Mountain Lion re-introduced "Save As..." in all applications. By default, you'd have to hold down the option key, but it's pretty easy to exchange "Duplicate" and "Save As..." by editing the keyboard shortcuts in the System Preferences.

Booya!
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#17 jackdawsson

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:30 AM

View PostFrigidman, on 04 February 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

10.6. It doesnt come 'on' by default, and will ask you the first time you run something PPC. But after that first time (after a clean OS install) rosetta is now 'on' and wont ask again. However in 10.7 onwards, they ripped it out entirely.

Been discussing related aspects of Rosetta's omission on the "Feral's upcoming project?" thread elsewhere, though of course the impact for many extends well beyond gaming.  My 2p (or 2 cents) worth: I know some people feel strongly that "progress" is more important than anything else, etc.  I see that POV.  But this has really bummed me off.  I mean, just the lack of choice.  

No Rosetta for those who have no need... fine.  However, for those who need it, either an optional download as with Snow Leopard, after all it was hardly a massive resource hog, or else allowing one to downgrade to SL, would've been only fair.

For those with no easy way to install SL on new Macs, esp many older Mac users with significant investments in Rosetta-reliant software, I think Apple may have done significant damage to confidence levels in the company, esp in how much money some of these users may invest in OS X software in future.  

FWIW, it seems that a fair number have already switched some operations to Windows simply because Microsoft, for all the criticisms they incur, really can't afford to readily lock out too many users reliant on older software.  That it's solely out of self-interest from MS, mainly as they're so reliant on realizing as many sales as possible from each new version of Windows, is besides the point.

#18 Frigidman™

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:52 PM

jackdawson, you have some good points.

I know in watching the support issues on MacGameStore, one of the most recurring issues are "I upgraded to 10.8 and now _____ doesnt work?!" Most of those people going onward to demand full refunds and/or sue the company for selling software that doesn't run.

We blame Apple for that. Pure and simple. And whose to say 10.9 won't break all the games that do run in 10.8? I have lost all confidence in Apple doing right by the customer now. They are more interested in forcing people to re-buy everything (or some alternative) because all the stuff they previously owned no longer works. All because someone wanted to update their OS.

I know what you mean with Windows. Oddly (now that you bring it up), I never thought about compatibility issues with my games on my Win7 64bit. All my games just run. Despite many of them were built when Vista wasn't even a reality! That there, considering how many leaps and bounds Win7 is over XP, is kind of impressive. Will I switch all my productivity apps/development/browsing/personal apps and documents to Windows? frak no. But my 100% dedication to Apple has been waning over the years as Apple continues to piss me off to no end.

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"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#19 jackdawsson

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

I agree & feel the same way about Apple on this score. I also share the suspicion that as each succeeding upgrade of OS X integrates more closely with iOS & mobile devices, current compatibility may be further compromised in the near future with more things broken. Not least many more games.

Also, as Macs get increasingly thinner, I even wonder about the credibility of recent rumours re Apple eventually switching from Intel CPUs to improved, cooler ARM processors across their Mac range.

This would signal the death-knell for many older, hardcore Mac games (which Apple has barely supported for years anyway) & probably Bootcamp, too. However, it'd reduce Mac production costs, whilst probably strengthening their grip on the casual gaming market, now increasingly popular on their iOS devices. A possible switch to ARM seems far from imminent, but as they improve that processor, it might be viable for Apple within the next few years.

FWIW, I'm also too heavily invested in OS X to ever switch completely. There are some purposes that I'll always prefer to use a Mac for. However, I already have a W7 machine & the temptation to get a powerful PC for gaming, & a few other things, doesn't go away. Though I'd prefer to remain with Apple for all these things, their general attitude is driving me to look at other options.  

Offering users decreasing choice, whilst increasing obsolescence to increase profits, when they're already rolling in about $137 billion in cash reserves, seems not the best way to encourage future loyalty. Certainly not in my case.

#20 Frigidman™

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

Hehe. Apple is going the way of "lets make computers for idiots" (what I consider iPads/iPhones), instead of useful computing devices that can do anything professionals and hard core enthusiasts need/want. ;) Theres a lot of money in making things for masses of morons, so, from a business standpoint, I see their point. But meh, since when was Apple all about the masses?

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"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester