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WWDC 2012


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#1 Janichsan

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:51 AM

So far announced: new Macbook Airs (mainly a speed bump and USB 3.0), new "regular" Macbook Pro – only 15"? – (by and large also mainly a – significant – speed bump) and a new, thinner 15" Macbook Pro (think 15" MBA) with the fabled retina display (which – among others – Diablo III will support). No 13" or 17" MBPs. Everything available from today.

Oh, before I forget it: Firewire is officially dead. All 15" MBPs only come with two Thunderbolt ports.

EDIT: I have to take back the "no 13"" and "no Firewire" thing. According to Apple's webpage, here still is a 13" MBP (somewhat faster CPU, Intel HD 4000 graphics) and the "standard" MBPs still have FW 800 ports. The 17" MBP is gone. I guess the Retina MBP is supposed to replace it as top of the line model.

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#2 Janichsan

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 12:09 PM

Err... The Stig demoing a racing game? :unsure:

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#3 DaveyJJ

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:13 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 11 June 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Err... The Stig demoing a racing game? :unsure:

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Who let Frost up on stage?!

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#4 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:59 PM

So, is AA dead with retina displays?

Mac pro got the smallest update in history...
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#5 Janichsan

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:13 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 11 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Mac pro got the smallest update in history...
Did it even get better GPUs? :huh:

Quote

So, is AA dead with retina displays?
Well, if your game (I assume you're talking about games) runs playable at 2880x1800, AA probably won't be very necessary. If not, AA still would do a lot to make it look better. The usual UI you'll see will probably still use AA to some amount (at least judging from my experiences with the iPhone Retina display), simply to make things look a bit smoother.

Oh, another thing: based on the pictures, it seems that the MBP Retina display is still glossy, but significantly less so than the old displays. That's some improvement.

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#6 Eric5h5

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:32 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 11 June 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Did it even get better GPUs? :huh:
It would seem not.  The only good thing is the 5870 is still good enough in most cases, but it's still kinda lame.

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 11 June 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

So, is AA dead with retina displays?
No, I have an iPod touch with a retina display, and without AA, jaggies are still fairly obvious.  (Unless you're looking at it from 5 feet away, maybe.)

--Eric

#7 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:44 PM

5870 will still crush every single game at 1080p resolution. But agreed about the lame. Woulda loved to see the new 7970 or GTX 680 in there.

Also, I cruised around the Mac Pro page, and there is no mention of thunderbolt for it. Me thinks they couldn't figure out a solution with a GPU manufacturer

I think it'll either get updated pretty soon or discontinued
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#8 ltcommander.data

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:53 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 11 June 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Oh, another thing: based on the pictures, it seems that the MBP Retina display is still glossy, but significantly less so than the old displays. That's some improvement.
Anand said that Apple is now integrating the display into the unibody allowing them to remove the cover glass. So I guess they've returned to old glossy, like how glossy Macbook Pro screens were before they went Unibody. It's interesting how adding the cover glass was a major new feature when it was introduced with the Unibody design and now removing the glass is also a major new feature with Apple claiming 75% reduction in glare and reflection. I guess it's always win-win. ;)

It seems like Apple is getting lazy on the hardware front, reusing existing chassis designs as much as possible. For the Mac Pro, going Sandy Bridge E and adding Thunderbolt would have necessitated changes to the internal layout even without an external redesign, which Apple doesn't seem to want to do so they just bumped the CPU. The new Retina MacBook Pro introduces a new thinner MagSafe connector which Apple didn't cleanly transition to the new standard by adding it across the notebook lineup not even similarly thin MacBook Air since that would require modifying the chassis. I suppose tooling for Unibody production is expensive so Apple wants to maximize existing chassis designs as much as possible, but it's making the product line-up more messy than it needs to be, which isn't very Apple-like. Since Apple doesn't seem to want to discontinue the Mac Pro, hopefully it'll see a full update alongside the next iMac and Mac Mini update. Similar to how the 17" MacBook Pro only receive minor speed bumps to it's existing configuration in October 2008 while the 13" and 15" MacBook Pros transitioned to Unibody, before quickly seeing a full 17" Unibody redesign in January 2009.

#9 Eric5h5

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:53 PM

At least the stock RAM for the Mac Pro is less insulting now.  Also the 12-core model got a pretty hefty price cut...now it's just ludicrous instead of completely insane.  ;)

--Eric

#10 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:18 PM

The new macbook pro's are a sweet update. Especially in the graphics department. The 650M is significantly faster then anything the previous generation had to offer.

See here for a very in depth review with a lot of different benchmarks.

Essentially, The quad 2.3 macbook pro with 650M should perform around 40-50% faster then the quad 2.2 with 6770M MacBook Pro. Your looking at running Diablo 3, Mass Effect 3, Modern Warfare 3, Starcraft 2, etc. all on ultra settings. And extremely intensive games like Skyrim and Battlefield 3, your looking at running on high settings.
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#11 ltcommander.data

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:35 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 11 June 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

The new macbook pro's are a sweet update. Especially in the graphics department. The 650M is significantly faster then anything the previous generation had to offer.

See here for a very in depth review with a lot of different benchmarks.

Essentially, The quad 2.3 macbook pro with 650M should perform around 40-50% faster then the quad 2.2 with 6770M MacBook Pro. Your looking at running Diablo 3, Mass Effect 3, Modern Warfare 3, Starcraft 2, etc. all on ultra settings. And extremely intensive games like Skyrim and Battlefield 3, your looking at running on high settings.
I am concerned about heat though. I don't know what the 6770M was rated at, but the previous 330M GT had a 23W TDP, while the 650M supposedly has a 45W TDP. The CPU has gotten more efficient now, but given the unibody design hasn't changed, things are going to be pretty tight thermally.

#12 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:14 PM

View Postltcommander.data, on 11 June 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I am concerned about heat though. I don't know what the 6770M was rated at, but the previous 330M GT had a 23W TDP, while the 650M supposedly has a 45W TDP. The CPU has gotten more efficient now, but given the unibody design hasn't changed, things are going to be pretty tight thermally.

I wouldn't be to concerned. Apple would have tested extensively the thermals under full cpu and gpu load.
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#13 Frost

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:29 PM

Mac Pro refresh was the one thing I was truly looking forward to. Mac Pro refresh is a bad joke.

No Thunderbolt? No USB 3? The Xeons aren't even Sandy Bridge Xeons? Ancient as hell weaksauce graphics cards?

No wonder it was a "quiet" refresh. They'd have been laughed off the stage if that was announced there. This feels like the stagnation of the G5s just before they went Intel.
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#14 Sargiel

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:36 PM

View PostFrost, on 11 June 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Mac Pro refresh was the one thing I was truly looking forward to. Mac Pro refresh is a bad joke.

No Thunderbolt? No USB 3? The Xeons aren't even Sandy Bridge Xeons? Ancient as hell weaksauce graphics cards?

No wonder it was a "quiet" refresh. They'd have been laughed off the stage if that was announced there. This feels like the stagnation of the G5s just before they went Intel.

Totally agree. Looks like the RAM on my Mac Pro is all I'll be upgrading.. really don't want to spend 377 ($583) on a 5870 when it's already dated.

#15 Macster

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:53 PM

I have seen the benches and I am still concerned with performance though on these new retina display books. Assuming they are standard from here on out. The new iPads got them and any art app starts to chug almost immediately with only  a few layers in use, the previous MBP models (of which I have) also start to throttle pretty bad after only a dozen layers of art and color on screen. And that is with the graphic switching turned off so I can get all the AMD chip can offer graphics-wise and with the full 8 gigs of ram on board.

These new i7s don't seem like a huge leap forward over the ones introduced last year either. Once people load their MBPs up with all sorts of software and things I wonder how they will still handle at those resolutions. I guess I'll wait to hear from others who use art apps extensively(Photoshop, Painter etc.) and see their verdict is on these new MBPs.

#16 Cobra

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:25 PM

Yay for Game Center coming to Mac.

#17 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:39 PM

View PostMacster, on 11 June 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

I have seen the benches and I am still concerned with performance though on these new retina display books. Assuming they are standard from here on out. The new iPads got them and any art app starts to chug almost immediately with only  a few layers in use, the previous MBP models (of which I have) also start to throttle pretty bad after only a dozen layers of art and color on screen. And that is with the graphic switching turned off so I can get all the AMD chip can offer graphics-wise and with the full 8 gigs of ram on board.

These new i7s don't seem like a huge leap forward over the ones introduced last year either. Once people load their MBPs up with all sorts of software and things I wonder how they will still handle at those resolutions. I guess I'll wait to hear from others who use art apps extensively(Photoshop, Painter etc.) and see their verdict is on these new MBPs.

The difference between the pro and the iPad though is that you can choose your resolution on the MBP. When your gaming you can set it at 1440x900, and it will look entirely native. Graphically this MBP is a huge step up from the last one in terms of GPU power, while the CPU is about 15% faster. It's one of the largest MBP updates that we've had in a while in terms of overall performance increase
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#18 Eric5h5

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:18 PM

Regarding the Mac Pro lackluster update, Tim Cook apparently sez: "Our pro customers are really important to us...don't worry as we're working on something really great for later next year."  They have a funny way of showing it, but we'll see.  Hang in there, Frost!

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#19 ltcommander.data

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:33 PM

View PostEric5h5, on 11 June 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Regarding the Mac Pro lackluster update, Tim Cook apparently sez: "Our pro customers are really important to us...don't worry as we're working on something really great for later next year."  They have a funny way of showing it, but we'll see.  Hang in there, Frost!

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Isn't it usually "later this year" or "next year"? Does "later next year" really mean 2013? That's what they're speculating for the iMac too. I was really hoping to get a new iMac this year. Especially since the MacBook Pro got it's last update in October 2011, whereas the iMac hasn't seen one since May 2011. Desktop may not be in vogue anymore, but the iMac is certainly more popular than the Mac Pro, and it'd be terrible if they are actually planning on ignoring it for 2 years.

#20 Frost

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:35 PM

Despite my ire over the Mac Pro "update" I do like the new MBPs though. If only there were a way to put older keyboards in them... my picking up the MBP in my sig a few months ago was primarily centered on the facts that A) I tend to type a LOT of stuff. I do mean a LOT. And B) I really, really do not like those chiclet keys or whatever they're called that they switched to on the model released just after mine. I used my cousin's 2010 MBP multiple times and that was the only part of the experience I disliked. On the other hand, I LOVE the keyboards on my PowerBook G4 and my MBP.

Yeah, I can use an external keyboard of any type I like, but the whole purpose of the thing is to be used on the go, which means using the built-in keyboard. Ah well. I'm either significantly in the minority or Apple really doesn't care as long as it looks artsy.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.