143 replies to this topic

[lewdvig]

I played through as a pacifist stealth hacker. I would rate the game 7/10 - I think the press over looked some very non deus ex things like the horrible HORRIBLE boss battles. The ending was super lame too.

If the Mac version comes with DLC I'll get it again.

[Janichsan]

lewdvig, on 24 September 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

I think the press over looked some very non deus ex things like the horrible HORRIBLE boss battles. The ending was super lame too.

Basically every review criticised exactly these two things.

[Wumpus]

Janichsan, on 27 September 2011 - 12:58 AM, said:

Basically every review criticised exactly these two things.

Indeed, they did. Having played through the game twice already I definitely agree with the criticisms of the ending. They had right idea in providing multiple choices to the end like the original Deus Ex (including one that just says bugger it all, let the world figure it out) but they left out the part of actually having to do different things to accomplish the different endings. I read recently in an interview that the devs wanted to do it (like the first Deus Ex) but were unable to due to time/production constraints or something along those lines. The game is very good, but changing the endings to be more meaningful in terms of actions would make it spectacular.

The boss fights however, I don't really agree with on the criticisms. They are not horrible, they are just a surprise change in gameplay. If you consider it Deus Ex also had several boss battles. Anna Navarre, Gunther Hermann, Walton Simons. Might be someone else I'm forgetting. Granted you had a little more freedom in how you went about fighting them, and of course you could learn the killphrases for Anna and Gunther so you didn't have to fight them at all, and if you had the right augmentations you could just skip Walton Simons altogether. My point being is there is nothing wrong with boss battles in Deus Ex, but Human Revolutions implementation of them is clumsy and doesn't provide you with multiple choices. You do have to kill them, and that's the only failing.

I've seen a lot of users and reviewers complain they played a stealth/pacifist character and when it came time for boss fights they didn't have the necessary augmentations/weapons to fight them. To start with, even if your'e only carrying around a tranq gun and/or stun gun, you definitely have room for 1-2 guns. Also EVERY boss fight has multiple weapons ammo and grenades scattered around the area. Now this particular issue would actually be an issue if there were Skills in HR like there was the original game. So yeah, you would be pretty screwed if you had zero points into any weapon skills. But there are none, you can pick up any gun and use it to full effectiveness. So playing a stealth character? Fine. Just pick up a gun or two at a boss fight, kill them, then drop it and move on.

Augmentation wise, sure there are some that help versus boss fights. More than anything that would be Dermal Armor or the Typhoon system. But you don't need them. Just stay in cover and you won't need dermal plating. Use a combination of grenades and guns and you won't need the typhoon system. There *are* many choices in combat, they did get that down at least. The only boss fight that is actually any challenge is the very first one since you have limited augmentations and your weapons don't have all the fancy upgrades. The 2nd and 3rd and a piece of cake since by then you have lots of augmentations and weapon upgrades.

Some people also say there's a way they want to play the game, and there's a way the game wants you to play. There's some relative truth to that, and the game *does* favor stealth characters. The funny part? Stealth characters get the most XP, meaning they get the most augmentations. Meaning they shouldn't bitch about boss fights being tough. My 2nd play through was a full on stealth character. You know what? I carried around 6 guns and about 300 rounds of ammo at any given time. I would have big firefights on purpose just to get rid of my ammo. I also maxed out my augmentations so at the end I was putting points into a useless node fortify hack because I had nothing else to put it in. So once again, stealth characters have no reason *not* to get the augmentations they need. 2-4 praxis points is really all you need if you're being stingy about it. Also most of the stealth upgrades are useless and you don't need them. I know that's my opinion, but you don't actually need things like line of sight on your map or the amount of noise you make. I tried them out in my first play through (as a more combat orientated build, but still) they didn't help. Just get the expanded map, seeing through walls and silent run instead. Cloaking is useful both in combat *and* in stealth so everyone should be getting that anyway.

I did enjoy the boss fights in the end. They were a bit of a surprise and a change of pace, but they have their place in the story and the Deus Ex world. I do agree they *should* be multiple choice more like the first game. Or more like the "conversation" battles you have in HR. The best example of this is the first one with Sanders in the factory. You can talk him down, arrest him, let him go, or just choose to fight him from the start. That's the sort of inherent flexibility that Deus Ex is all about and the game is at its best in moments like those. So there are some issues with the boss fights, but they are not as bad as people make them out to be. Maybe its the old Deus Ex fan in me, but I didn't have a problem with them, but I would welcome the multiple choice approach to the bosses. It would make more sense if you could just sneak by Barret, but maybe if you fought and killed him you could get a sweet weapon or some kind of upgrade and experience. But sneaking by him would also grant you experience, but make it hard. Go through a laser field or lots of camera's or something. Not just "crawls through vent past boss' type of thing. The game is great at rewarding any approach you take throughout, I'm sure in the future (and they are already doing this in the upcoming DLC) they will apply that to boss battles.

lewdvig, on 24 September 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

If the Mac version comes with DLC I'll get it again.

Feral always adds it in if they can. The UK version is actually the better one, it came bundled with *all* the DLC that was retailer specific here in the states. So with any luck we'll snag all the DLC with the game once its out.

[Sneaky Snake]

there's DLC already ??  

[Hansi]

Sneaky Snake, on 27 September 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

there's DLC already ??  

Just the extras in the augmented/limited version. Missing link DLC is coming out next month.

[Wumpus]

Right..I didn't mean DLC, but rather the pre-order content is what i meant to refer to. For some reason I keep calling it DLC.

I bet Feral is just going to release an Augmented edition, and hopefully it will come with all the pre-order content packs as well as next months DLC. That would be pretty awesome.

[XxtraLarGe]

Wumpus, on 28 September 2011 - 12:08 AM, said:

Right..I didn't mean DLC, but rather the pre-order content is what i meant to refer to. For some reason I keep calling it DLC.

I bet Feral is just going to release an Augmented edition, and hopefully it will come with all the pre-order content packs as well as next months DLC. That would be pretty awesome.

I wouldn't count on it. I wonder when the exclusive pre-order stuff will come out being available as DLC? I preordered from Amazon, so I got the 10,000 credits, shotgun & sniper rifle, but I'd like to get the extra mission as well.

[PeopleLikeFrank]

XxtraLarGe, on 30 September 2011 - 09:13 AM, said:

I wouldn't count on it. I wonder when the exclusive pre-order stuff will come out being available as DLC? I preordered from Amazon, so I got the 10,000 credits, shotgun & sniper rifle, but I'd like to get the extra mission as well.

That would be two days ago.

[Wumpus]

I played around with both packs before in the press demo, and they are worth getting. If you had to pick one, I'd say go for the explosive pack. The tactical pack isn't that useful. The shotgun is rubbish and 10,000 extra credits isn't hard to make, just sell some weapons and you'll have that much. The silenced sniper rifle is nice, except you can't upgrade it whatsoever. And given you can get a crossbow a longer ranged silenced weapon isn't that big a deal. Of course the sniper rifle beats out the crossbow on range, but there isn't *that* many big spaces in the game. And Its pretty darn easy to get close to people for a crossbow/tranq gun/stun gun/takedown making a silenced sniper rifle less useful.

The explosive pack on the other hand adds stuff you don't get. Grenade launcher, remote detonation packs and an automatic unlocking device. The last once is silly since hacking is an excellent source of extra XP and credits. But the explosive weapons plus the bonus mission make it very worthwhile.

Overall each one is $3 & $2 or $4 for both, so you mine as well get both if you haven't yet. But I'm waiting to get Feral's version since I already played the game twice and I want my 3rd play through to be on the Mac. Now that the packs are out as DLC I'm sure they will be in Feral's port. (As I said before )

[XxtraLarGe]

Wumpus, on 30 September 2011 - 07:25 PM, said:

I played around with both packs before in the press demo, and they are worth getting. If you had to pick one, I'd say go for the explosive pack. The tactical pack isn't that useful. The shotgun is rubbish and 10,000 extra credits isn't hard to make, just sell some weapons and you'll have that much. The silenced sniper rifle is nice, except you can't upgrade it whatsoever. And given you can get a crossbow a longer ranged silenced weapon isn't that big a deal. Of course the sniper rifle beats out the crossbow on range, but there isn't *that* many big spaces in the game. And Its pretty darn easy to get close to people for a crossbow/tranq gun/stun gun/takedown making a silenced sniper rifle less useful.

The explosive pack on the other hand adds stuff you don't get. Grenade launcher, remote detonation packs and an automatic unlocking device. The last once is silly since hacking is an excellent source of extra XP and credits. But the explosive weapons plus the bonus mission make it very worthwhile.

Overall each one is $3 & $2 or $4 for both, so you mine as well get both if you haven't yet. But I'm waiting to get Feral's version since I already played the game twice and I want my 3rd play through to be on the Mac. Now that the packs are out as DLC I'm sure they will be in Feral's port. (As I said before )

I preordered on Amazon, so I got the tactical enhancement pack, I'll have to get the mission pack from the playstation store.

[PeopleLikeFrank]

So having not had the time for games whatsoever over most of August & September, I made up for it by playing way too much DX over October, and holy popsnizzle does this feel good. It is so great that this game, which I had thought couldn't turn out well has far exceeded any expectation. It is so great that they've made a game that feels like Deus Ex. It is great to play a game that is intelligently put together, and treats you like you've got a brain in your head.

I finished one playthrough and am about 2/3rds through a second one. First one was ultra-sneaky & non-lethal, this one I'm basically the world's biggest jerk. Both on the hardest difficulty (I like there to be some actual consequence for messing up), and I like how lethal the enemies are - without the dermal armour aug, you're dead in a hit or two, and since my first character eschewed such things I had to make a real effort to stay undetected. It forces you to have a tactical approach as a combat oriented character too - definitely no walking tanks, at least on this difficulty. It's pretty great though to open up a fight by tossing several vending machines at your very surprised enemies from a nearby rooftop or balcony, and leap down for some stabby shotgunny followup.

It's neither as deep nor flexible as DX1, but it is more focused. I do miss some of the alternatives I used to have - for example, I've made a rule that my current character isn't allowed to put any points in to hacking. Since this is the case, there are some places that are straight-up closed to me because there's no blowing doors up, or separate lockpicking/bypassing. But overall the gameplay is much tighter than the first, so I while I miss certain things, I can appreciate where efforts were made to tighten things up. This is *unlike* DX2 where it just felt like streamlining to the point of stupidity.

And it has its definite flaws. The boss battles are objectively terrible, despite Wumpus' argument above. Yes, it gives you flexibility in your combat approach, but when it's already sacrificed the general gameplay flexibility that is the whole point of Deus Ex, who cares? Every 'boss' in DX1 you could get past without a stand-up fight, and creating any situation where you have no other choice is a failure, IMO. The game is really about facing scenarios, not individuals. On top of that, my first character was all about not killing people, yet here I'm forced into it.

It's also way too easy to get all your augmentations fully upgraded. Even my current character who misses out on all the stealth and hacking XP bonuses has pretty much maxed everything useful out about 2/3rds through. I could start putting points in to hacking & stealth, but the whole point is that this character doesn't do this stuff. So, I definitely prefer that the aug system in the previous games made you make a hard choice as to what sorts of augmentations you could get.

Couple more nitpicks, but these ones involve...

*THPOILERTH*

Spoiler

The final sequence once the zombie signal is activated. Oh god. So lame. I really don't play DX in order to play L4D. I wouldn't object to a change of pace in the gameplay, but I found this one unimaginative, and poorly executed to boot. The fact that they're psychic zombies is what pushes this over the top from just lame to really terrible. Toss a gas grenade into a crowd of them, and even if none of them saw you, they all instantly turn hostile & know your location. This is combined with the fact that they often occupy chokepoints where you have no option to sneak around them. The whole point of my first character was remaining undetected! I ended up burning most of my remaining energy just turning on cloaking & sprinting past. I am very much looking forward to their as violent-as-possible deaths in my current playthrough, but this whole bit was one big failure of imagination.

The ending sequence was just a little incoherent in general, with the final appearance of Zhao seeming kind of lame. I did appreciate that the final 'boss battle' gave the flexible approach back though. However, the ending itself - the 'pick a button for a final cinematic' was pretty dumb too. The DX 1 approach of having to complete objectives across the final level to actually make the ending you want happen is very much better.

*END THPOILERTH*

Still, great stuff! GotY for me at the moment, and a much missed return to games which do a little more than just hold you by the hand in between cutscenes.

[Sneaky Snake]

Just finished this game. Got it for free on Steam with my graphics card purchase.

loved it. Go play it. I went as a boss guns blazing character. Looking forward to starting my stealth play through soon

Spoiler

I didn't mind the ending. Usually there was sneaky ways around the zombie dudes, some of the time you could even walk through the middle of them if your crouched and not making noise. I wished the woulda had more closure with Megan, it kinda left it up in the air as to whether she's good or bad.

On that note. I stayed for the whole credit sequence, and there's an easter egg when it's done. Beat the game again and watch it. I enjoyed it. It really opened the game up for expansions

[XxtraLarGe]

I finished the game tonight, and liked it enough that I bought the PC version too. I just got the game on (regular version) Steam complete with all DLC for $23.76. The augmented edition is only a few dollars more, but I already have that in the physical copy. It might be worth it if you want the soundtrack, which is supposed to be better than the one furnished with the PS3 version, which only has a few of the tracks.

[Janichsan]

The Mac version will apparently be the "Ultimate Edition". I guess that means it contains all kind of pre-order stuff, all DLC and a picture of edddeduck in a thong.

[edddeduck]

Janichsan, on 29 February 2012 - 04:03 AM, said:

The Mac version will apparently be the "Ultimate Edition". I guess that means it contains all kind of pre-order stuff, all DLC and a picture of edddeduck in a thong.

[Wumpus]

Lol @ Edwin.

I've played it through twice already on PC (got the augmented edition) but look forward to doing a 3rd time on Mac. I've played around with the DLC items in the press demo but never went through the game with them, and never got that Tong mission or played the Missing Link, so some fresh things to make a 3rd run entertaining. Assuming the ultimate edition has all these things.

[UmarOMC1]

April... May?

[Wumpus]

UmarOMC1, on 03 March 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

April... May?

I'm feeling it  will be out in April.

[Sargiel]

Just got the latest edition of Mac Format through and there's a full page advert for Deus Ex 3 Ultimate Edition - "Coming Soon"

[Wumpus]

Sargiel, on 23 March 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Just got the latest edition of Mac Format through and there's a full page advert for Deus Ex 3 Ultimate Edition - "Coming Soon"

Cool

I've been playing it (preview build) and its running very nicely I have to say. Performance is comparable to bootcamp (played it twice there) though the loading times are a bit longer. This isn't a technical issue however, but rather a difference in how the mac & PC versions handle rendering of the levels.

Will have a video out soon for my video channel showing off some different aspects of the game with narration.