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WINE vs. Wineskin


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#1 Marvin_Arnold

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 05:47 AM

Ok, maybe this is a dumb question, but I don't seem to see the light here.

I have been using WINE some time ago to get some Windows programs and games running under Snow Leopard. Now I've seen there is Wineskin, which is based on WINE and creates wrappers for the programs.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of Wineskin over WINE? I was thinking in particular about running KotOR 2...

Sorry, maybe I can't see the wood for the trees...

Thanks.

M:A:

#2 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 05:59 AM

One thing I really like about WINEskin is being able to use the version of WINE that best works with a particular game in each wrapper. Some games work best with newer engines and others with older engines. You can even use crossover's wine engines in WINEskin and not just WINEHQ's builds. It also has a handy dandy tool for compiling engines and other utilities built in that help out a lot with wrapping games. I never really used just plain old WINE though so I am not sure of the disadvantages compared to it. I just used WINEskin, Cider and Crossover Games. The first two in that little list are the ones I use these days.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#3 Hansi

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 11:50 AM

Wineskin is easier to manage. There is no disadvantage in using it over Wine, unless you plan on creating a custom wine build (I found it easier to do those outside of Wineskin).

#4 Marvin_Arnold

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 12:40 PM

Thanks everybody. I did indeed build a specially patched version of WINE for Dragon Age: Origins some time ago (didn't help, graphic glitches and crashes, so I switched to the official Cider version when it came out...).

I think I'll try Wineskin.

Thanks again.

M:A:

#5 UmarOMC1

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 08:04 PM

I've only tried Resident Evil 5 with WINE and Wineskin... fail. Not known to run well I learned–I think it relies on MS Live libs.Also... installing WINE seems to have broken my old 8.x CrossOver... it launches... then quits. WINE's more confusing to me than anything...
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#6 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 08:45 PM

You tried one of the worst games to try with WINE there. Capcom games do not play well with WINE at all and apparently call for stuff that's not implemented correctly so the best you can get even on a fast computer is 15-20FPS compared to in windows. Capcom engine games are terrible to wrap. There's always some kind of problem with them if not performance then the sound doesn't work or something else. I wouldn't judge WINE (any version) by how capcom games run.



Anyway.... about custom engines. As long as one has the correct Xcode installed (xcode 3) alongside the latest building WINE engines with wineskin should be a matter of downloading the source code from git  and using the wineskin winery "custom build and engine" in the add engine window to build a custom engine. It's also possible to edit some files to remove the 10.5 dependency if you don't care about 10.5 support and there's threads on portingteam.com on how to do that. doh123 tends to be helpful there as she's the one who maintains wineskin and answers questions about it.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#7 Marvin_Arnold

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 03:40 AM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 07 September 2011 - 08:45 PM, said:

doh123 tends to be helpful there as she's the one who maintains wineskin and answers questions about it.
So I learned yesterday. By the way, any suggestion for dealing with "please insert original disk for DRM verification" messages? (haven't encountered this yet, but since you're here right now...   :D   ...better be prepared.) Apart from "use no-CD patch"?

#8 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 03:52 AM

The problem is that the WINE engines that are used for WINEskin or just plain WINE don't support certain DRM schemes like safedisc (forgot the name off the top of my head... could have been safedisc...) because the WINE project can't or wont pay for royalties for them. Or something..... don't quote me on that.. but either way they don't support the disc check that many games use.

Actually looking it up it depends on what version the game uses.. and what type.... like some use safedisc, others use securerom:

This page lists what is supported and what is not:

http://wiki.winehq.org/CopyProtection

BTW just FYI.. this does not apply to cider as they are a different fork entirely and have paid royalties to certain companies for their disc check software.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#9 Marvin_Arnold

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 04:15 AM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 08 September 2011 - 03:52 AM, said:

The problem is that the WINE engines that are used for WINEskin or just plain WINE don't support certain DRM schemes like safedisc (forgot the name off the top of my head... could have been safedisc...) because the WINE project can't or wont pay for royalties for them. Or something..... don't quote me on that.. but either way they don't support the disc check that many games use.

Actually looking it up it depends on what version the game uses.. and what type.... like some use safedisc, others use securerom:

This page lists what is supported and what is not:

http://wiki.winehq.org/CopyProtection

BTW just FYI.. this does not apply to cider as they are a different fork entirely and have paid royalties to certain companies for their disc check software.
Thanks for the info... I just tested the whole thing with Unreal 2 (bought it for very few bucks some years ago and never got around playing it...) and indeed, I don't know what DRM they use, but it asks for the CD that is spinning in the drive already... well, back to the "no-CD patch", I presume...

#10 The Liberator

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:23 AM

Would anyone happen to know how Skyrim plays on WINESkin? …or any other WINE app/compiler?

Thanks,
Liberator.

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#11 Janichsan

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:44 AM

View PostThe Liberator, on 27 February 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Would anyone happen to know how Skyrim plays on WINESkin? …or any other WINE app/compiler?
Apparently pretty well.

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#12 Wumpus

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:03 PM

View PostThe Liberator, on 27 February 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Would anyone happen to know how Skyrim plays on WINESkin? …or any other WINE app/compiler?

Thanks,
Liberator.
It runs amazing in Cider, but I know there's some differences with that and wineskin.
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#13 The Liberator

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 08:58 PM

Which WINE app do people normally use? I know there is CrossOver, but as there are also many free applications, which would be the best bet? ...to throw in the money and go with the proffessionally supported CrossOver...?

Lib.

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#14 tcrown

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:58 AM

View PostThe Liberator, on 27 February 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Would anyone happen to know how Skyrim plays on WINESkin? …or any other WINE app/compiler?

Thanks,
Liberator.


On my 2011 Macbook Pro AMD 1Ghz it runs as good as native windows all maxed out. It still bogles my mind why Bethesda refuse to port to Mac. The Porting Team is really close to getting Mass Effect 3 done. Right now it's running at 30+FPS but no audio.
With more developers using Unreal Engine 3, getting those games running in wineskin on PC release day is becoming less problematic.
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#15 The Liberator

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 07:18 PM

View Posttcrown, on 10 March 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

On my 2011 Macbook Pro AMD 1Ghz it runs as good as native windows all maxed out. It still bogles my mind why Bethesda refuse to port to Mac. The Porting Team is really close to getting Mass Effect 3 done. Right now it's running at 30+FPS but no audio.
With more developers using Unreal Engine 3, getting those games running in wineskin on PC release day is becoming less problematic.
Well, I had less luck than you. I made the wrapper, installed Steam, then Skyrim. I had everything going, and the game ran. ...then the mouse did not work properly. I was able to make a New game, but as the mouse cannot work propery in the game, it was all futile.

Lib.

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#16 clocknova

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:45 PM

View PostThe Liberator, on 10 March 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Well, I had less luck than you. I made the wrapper, installed Steam, then Skyrim. I had everything going, and the game ran. ...then the mouse did not work properly. I was able to make a New game, but as the mouse cannot work propery in the game, it was all futile.

Lib.

There's a new custom build of the latest 1.4 version of the Wineskin engine that may fix the mouse trouble you had.  Head over to the Porting Team and look for a link in the forums.
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#17 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:01 PM

They also have it in a 1.5 flavor.. and it fixed some mouse problems with Clive Barker's Jericho I had recently.

Speaking of 1.5 it was so fast that they came out with a 1.5 version of WINE IMO. http://www.winehq.org/announce/1.5.0
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

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#18 clocknova

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:38 PM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 18 March 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

They also have it in a 1.5 flavor.. and it fixed some mouse problems with Clive Barker's Jericho I had recently.

Speaking of 1.5 it was so fast that they came out with a 1.5 version of WINE IMO. http://www.winehq.org/announce/1.5.0

No Wineskin engine1.5 yet, but shouldn't be too long.  Hopefully the mouse patch will just get rolled right on so no custom build necessary.
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#19 The Liberator

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:23 PM

View Postclocknova, on 18 March 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

There's a new custom build of the latest 1.4 version of the Wineskin engine that may fix the mouse trouble you had.  Head over to the Porting Team and look for a link in the forums.
Okay, thanks!

Lib.

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#20 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:11 AM

View Postclocknova, on 18 March 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

No Wineskin engine1.5 yet, but shouldn't be too long.  Hopefully the mouse patch will just get rolled right on so no custom build necessary.
You misunderstand me... I'm not asking if there's a 1.5 version with the patch I'm telling. THERE IS A VERSION ON THE SAME THREAD WITH THE PATCH BUT WITH 1.5 INSTEAD OF 1.4! They have both available there.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7