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WINE vs. Wineskin


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#21 Ichigo27

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:32 AM

Witcher 2 and alan wakes performance on either wine or wineskin anyone? Cause if any IMG users on here tried that game and had success, then I'd think about buying both for my new entry level imac.
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#22 Hansi

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 01:59 AM

Looks okay, alan wake needs a patch though:

http://appdb.winehq....rsion&iId=23504
http://appdb.winehq....TestingId=69628

#23 Ichigo27

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 05:30 PM

What about a old game like condemned criminal origins? Still have copy I bought ages ago for my PC.
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#24 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 08:29 PM

Condemned works great in wineskin although all monolith games have rendering errors with newer WINE versions. In my experience the best WINE engine to use for any monolith game is Crossover Games 10.1.1 the only downside is it doesn't have the ability to turn on antialiasing like later WINE versions do. Crossover XI displays the same problem that other versions of WINE do and so does cider since I guess both of those have been rolling in changes that WINE has made recently to their rendering that affects lithtech games. But yeah with the right WINE engine I can play that full detail on my iMac. I can also play FEAR an FEAR2 although in FEAR 2 I have to set textures to medium or else get random crashes but everything else I can max out.

The rendering error being HUD items like your weapons are rendered semi-translucent like they are made of glass. The custom WINE engine with the GLSL patch for ATI may fix the problem but I haven't tried it yet.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#25 Ichigo27

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:51 AM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 23 March 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Condemned works great in wineskin although all monolith games have rendering errors with newer WINE versions. In my experience the best WINE engine to use for any monolith game is Crossover Games 10.1.1 the only downside is it doesn't have the ability to turn on antialiasing like later WINE versions do. Crossover XI displays the same problem that other versions of WINE do and so does cider since I guess both of those have been rolling in changes that WINE has made recently to their rendering that affects lithtech games. But yeah with the right WINE engine I can play that full detail on my iMac. I can also play FEAR an FEAR2 although in FEAR 2 I have to set textures to medium or else get random crashes but everything else I can max out.

The rendering error being HUD items like your weapons are rendered semi-translucent like they are made of glass. The custom WINE engine with the GLSL patch for ATI may fix the problem but I haven't tried it yet.

What fps do you get on average for condemned and other Lithtech Jupiter EX games?
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#26 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:12 AM

I don't keep a frame rate counter on but generally speaking it feels like at least 30-60fps... in other words there's no slowy feel at any time it's always quick and responsive. I'd say 60 but then I know people wouldn't believe me so I say at least 30 at all times.

The type of speed and responsiveness that makes you want to have marathon gaming sessions and feels like arcade quality. It's very impressive.

I didn't have much memory in my camera but I did manage to take a short video of FEAR2 running in wineskin with the CXG10.1.1 engine and uploaded it to youtube:



I did it that way so one can see how it runs unadulterated by the frame rate hit a screen capturing program would introduce to it. When I get a bigger SD card I will do a longer video. Here I was balancing my camera on my head and playing at the same time.  :cool:

The best performing is actually FEAR2 btw... FEAR2 feels more responsive than FEAR1 believe it or not and FEAR1 pauses the game a bit longer when doing quick save than FEAR2. But this has more to do with mouse code than frame rate and how the mouse code interacts with WINE. Condemned has the worst mouse code ouf of those three games. Although that may be improved if you run it with a WINE engine that has a raw input patch although there doesn't seem to be one for the engine that works best with lithtech jupiter EX's renderer (CXG10.1.1) sometimes in Condemned the mouse seems a tad slippery or it doesn't register when you turn a tad.

*edit* I tried the WINE 1.5 engine with raw input patch and GLSL fix and it still renders the HUD items incorrectly (like they are made of glass) and the performance even takes a nose dive... so the best engine to use is still CXG10.1.1 for lithtech jupiter EX games *edit*

Like I said before on all of them you can max out pretty much everything except the texture detail in FEAR2 which you have to put on medium at least if you have a 512MB video card like mine. But actually... medium on FEAR2 is like maximum on FEAR1. I play all of those at 1920x1080 except FEAR2 which I run at 1600x900 for the best tradeoff between frame rate and image quality. The latter is a 16:9 resolution I play many new games at although I probably could run FEAR2 at 1920x1080 I just choose to have a bit more oomph if you know what I mean.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#27 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

Just a quick note\correction here.. the sweet spot engine for lithtech jupiter EX games.. being the highest revision you can use before the weapons start rendering incorrectly is CXG10.3.0... NOT CXG10.1.1 although that works too. But yeah, I'm running them on wineskin engine CXG10.3.0 Also I had to set a fullscreen override in screen settings in wineskin and setting the fullscreen override to the same resolution that I have the game set to in the in-game settings for the screen to set correctly. Also I tested out the mouse warp override settings and for condemned setting it (mwo in winetricks) to DISABLE seems to improve the mouse support.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#28 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 02:52 PM

Two new things. Rayman Origins runs great in wineskin and you can purchase it DRM free directly from ubisoft (steam not required) and install it in a wrapper. Porting Team has a premade wrapper you can use. The reason why the person recommends installing it into a copy of the wrapper and then moving the install folder to a new copy is the game installs support files which may mess up the wrapper's environment. I tried unchecking those things (directx and vcrun2008) but it wouldn't let me. Also he notes slowdown in busy areas but I haven't noticed any yet and the game runs pretty sweet on my system. I used to run the Wii version in Dolphin and that did have slowdowns when transitioning from level to level and I had to run it at 720p. But the PC version in WINE doesn't seem to have any and I can run it at my native 1440p and the game's HD 2D graphics look pretty sweet and very sharp.

Another thing I note about this game is I had to use my logitech cordless rumblepad II with that game rather than my 360 wireless pad because I couldn't map controls with the latter but I could with the former. Rayman Origins is a d-pad sort of game although it's not a good idea to map the controls directly to the d-pad as the d-pad acts as a hat switch and doesn't register diagonals if you map the directions directly to it. What you have to do instead is map them to the thumb-stick and then hit the mode switch to swap the left thumb-stick and d-pad axis. Rayman Origins also has real good sound going for it. It's the best Rayman game I have played so far.

The second thing is it seems the 2010 version of Aliens vs Predator by Rebellion is getting close to being playable in WINE (using winehq's 1.5 engine). I installed it again last night from my retail discs running it via PC Steam in the wineskin wrapper and the frame rate is very good in most indoor scenes but it appears outdoor scenes particularly if the sun is illuminating them get a lot of slowdown. Looks like it may be using unoptimized paths for stuff such as the sun and or fog volumes. Also some of the graphics aren't rendering correctly like they aren't lit correctly or something and some of the NPC voices aren't playing. But it's a big improvement from before where I couldn't run it at all because the performance was crap from the very start. I've no idea how long it would take them to fix the remaining problems with the graphics or in that game though or if there's anything I could do on my end to fix it.  AvP (2010) is one game for me to keep installed to track the progress of WINE, regardless. Another drawback is it takes a couple of hours to install (counting the auto updating steam does) even if you have the retail discs.  :cool:

It'd be nice if a certain porting studio who has done games from SEGA of the strategy variety would port this and perhaps also Gearbox's upcoming Aliens game. ;)


These are no jokes BTW, I don't do April Fools jokes. Although I do admit... Ubisoft and DRM free in the same sentence sounds like an April Fools joke.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#29 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:15 AM

The latest version of WINEskin with it's new MESAGL drivers has given major improvements to monolith's games in particular. Now I can run FEAR2 with textures set to maximum with no crashes and the frame rate is even a little better than before which was already pretty fast. It was unbelievable with the new WINEskin. I still use the same CGX10.3.0 engine though.

I tried upgrading The Witcher and it still crashes on me after a couple of hours though.. but the performance is better there too.

FEAR3 came in the postal mail from Amazon for me today and I wrapped it in a WINE wrapper and it ran really amazing. I got almost all the way up until the end but quit in chapter 7/8 because I got tired. I can play it 1920x1080 at mostly high settings and textures on maximum. It's almost too good to be true how well all the FEAR games run in WINE now. Even that new one which is on a new engine. But that engine is pretty amazing actually. The gameplay is very good and some of the levels are very interesting. But I think it probably is a little light on the story but that may be a side effect of being fully COOP enabled from start to finish. The single player game is even a simulated multiplayer game it seemed.  :mellow:

True fullscreen doesn't work in that game though. No matter how you see it it always wants to be in a window and shows a windows style border. You can't set it from in-game menus and the config file is obfuscated pretty much but it's possible to hex edit it to at least change the resolution if you are having trouble changing it in-game. I didn't have that trouble though and managed to set it to 1920x1080 without having to resort to doign that.

Then I managed to get it to run in a pseuso fullscreen by setting a fullscreen override in WINEskin at the same resolution as I'm using in game and then dragging the floating game window until the titlebar is above the monitor's top edge. It pretty much looks fulllscreen that way except for a tiny white border around the whole thing.

Stability-wise it seems OK.. I played it all afternoon with no incident.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#30 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:14 AM

I took the evening off yesterday and played the entirety of Alan Wake in wineskin.

I did quite a bit of tinkering and wasn't having much luck. I set the dsound bug option, sound acceleration to emulation, installed the directx files that came with the game, etc. with little luck. But then later in the afternoon I randomly launched the game and the sound just worked both in-game and in the FMV cut scenes! I have no idea how to reproduce that though or what I did that helped but since I had it working by luck I ended up spending the entire day and most of the night pausing it every now and then to take breaks. I ended up playing the entire game the game and completed it. As far as I can tell though the sound just works randomly by chance and I know if it works if the intro FMV sounds play and then the menu sounds. But again normally only one or the other works.

But yeah I did the following to my 1.5 rawpatch-noxinput wrapper:
A ) Install The DirectX that came with it
B ) Install the vcrun2008 that came with it
C ) Did the following in winetricks:

windows mode=win7
multisampling=enabled
videomemorysize=512
dsoundhw=Emulation
dsoundbug9612

Then randomly the sound started working fully in both game and FMV cut scenes after a few launches.

I also added these command line options: -rigidcamera -novsync -w1600 -h900 and a fullscreen override at the same resolution.

-ridigcamera is to help with the mouse... along with the latest patch and a setting called direct shooting or something in the game.

Probably not every single thing I did was nessasary but it's what I did to tailor it for the best results on my particular system. I also used custom settings in-game rather than use the presets and set most things to medium except AA I set to 2x.

The game was a little sluggish at times compared to say... FEAR3 on high. But it was playable enough to have me hooked and play it through to completion.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#31 doh123

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:35 AM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 13 April 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

The latest version of WINEskin with it's new MESAGL drivers has given major improvements to monolith's games in particular. Now I can run FEAR2 with textures set to maximum with no crashes and the frame rate is even a little better than before which was already pretty fast. It was unbelievable with the new WINEskin. I still use the same CGX10.3.0 engine though.

Soon to be new.. if anyone is wondering... hes talking about the Wineskin 2.5.5 Beta.  Beta has been really good, and all the minor bugs I have fixed... so I'm expecting I'll probably get it all rounded up to do a release tonight after I get home from work  :-)