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#41 jackdawsson

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 02:24 PM

I assume these games I own won't work on Lion due to needing Rosetta:

Age of Mythology
Age of Empires 2 (Gold)
Command & Conquer Generals (Deluxe)
Diablo 2
Lego Star Wars
Rise of Nations
Starcraft

If so, even though they're old games, for me as a strategy gamer that's a bummer!  :(

All in all, as I can't stand glossy screens & a Mac Pro is overkill for my needs, it increasingly looks like the best new Mac for me to replace my fried iMac might be the low-end, updated Mini for serious work, effectively gaming only on a PC in future.

Sincerely wish it could be otherwise, but the more I read about Lion, the less viable a Mac gaming option seems for me.

#42 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 02:28 PM

LEGO Star Wars from Aspyr has a UB patch or at least was UB to begin with.... I know this because I even got it to run on a hacked 1st Gen AppleTV and there's no rosetta there. Plus Feral has a version that is the whole trilogy available too I think. There's a UB for C&C Generals too although I can't vouch for it working in Lion as I don't have that game. I say this because Alice has a UB patch and that's not working in Lion.

This list is still useful though: http://guides.macrum...al_Binary_Games
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#43 jackdawsson

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 02:36 PM

Thanks for confirmation re Lego Star Wars & that list. Just checked Mattw's list & he confirms that Command & Conquer Generals also works on Lion.

Still, much to ponder here about whether it's really worth my time buying the mid-range Mini with discrete graphics, + an optical drive, just to play only a limited number of my disk-based Mac games, or just get the cheaper Mini for work & accept defeat on the lack of all round gaming compatibility.

#44 mattw

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 03:48 PM

Seem to have lost my edit controls to update my original list but I tried these as well:

Sid Meier's Pirates - Ok
The Movie (standalone retail) - black screen had to force quit
Super Tux Kart - OK
Super Tux - OK
Stunt Playground - OK
Tales of Monkey Island - OK
Puzzle Agent - OK
Sam & Max S2 - OK
Sam & Max S3 - OK
Back to the Future S1 - OK
Strong Bad - OK

Still got a few more to try plus Steam titles.

With the old Blizzard stuff I haven't tried them in multi player but if you register your keys on battle net  you can download the windows installers and they seem to work fine in Wine wrappers.
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#45 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 04:39 PM

View Postjackdawsson, on 24 July 2011 - 02:36 PM, said:

Still, much to ponder here about whether it's really worth my time buying the mid-range Mini with discrete graphics, + an optical drive, just to play only a limited number of my disk-based Mac games, or just get the cheaper Mini for work & accept defeat on the lack of all round gaming compatibility.

If all your games where PowerPC only and you can't or don't want to upgrade them to UB or a wrapped version then yes you are defeated when it comes to the Mac. Most games still work though. So I wouldn't say it has an all around lack of compatibility with games. I have 115 items in my games launching stack and 98% of my games work... except for Aspyr's Quake 3 based Star Wars games and Alice. But then again I've migrated all my software to UB or wrapped versions. I only had one powerpc app that I had to sacrifice and that was Bloodrayne. Seems like you are conflating the dropping of Rosetta with the dropping of all games.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#46 teflon

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 05:47 PM

Thought I'd chip in and say that Aquaria works fine. As should all the Introversion games ported by AmbrosiaSW (Uplink, DEFCON, Darwinia, Multiwinia), which are also now on Steam, possibly from a different angle.

Been playing around with the new Mail, and it's bloody fantastic. I know it's totally superfluous, but the animation you get when you hit 'Reply' and the message swoops out of the main window is lovely. Stupid, but lovely to the extent I did it about 20 times before I actually bothered to reply to that email!

The conversations are also very well managed, but they're working off GMail's solid template already. Just that there's the little drop down number indicators in the message list view that you can click on and it expands to show the date or time of each incoming message of that conversation so pristinely. Click on one of them, and the message viewer area shows it. So simple, and it just makes sense. It's been a loooong time coming, but the update to Mail is worth it.
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#47 jackdawsson

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 08:00 PM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 24 July 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

If all your games where PowerPC only and you can't or don't want to upgrade them to UB or a wrapped version then yes you are defeated when it comes to the Mac. Most games still work though. So I wouldn't say it has an all around lack of compatibility with games. I have 115 items in my games launching stack and 98% of my games work... except for Aspyr's Quake 3 based Star Wars games and Alice. But then again I've migrated all my software to UB or wrapped versions. I only had one powerpc app that I had to sacrifice and that was Bloodrayne. Seems like you are conflating the dropping of Rosetta with the dropping of all games.

Agreed. Writing "all round" was remiss of me & you're right to point out it suggests a bigger problem than in fact exists. I should've said a "fair number" of favourite titles in my collection apparently won't work on Lion. Even AOE 3 "crashed once" according to Mattyw, then worked OK. However, will it work OK if played for a couple of hours at a time, or crash occasionally?  I'd need to find out more about things like that.

It may seem fastidious even pointing this stuff out. But as some of my favourite games are indeed the older titles like AoE 2 & 3, RoN, etc. I need to at least consider whether for me it might be a waste of money buying a more expensive Mini, & an optical drive, if I can't play my favourite games.  OTOH, another consideration is to sell them for a decent sum (as tends to be the going price for older Mac games), then buy PC equivalents for much cheaper. Thanks again!

#48 ltcommander.data

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 09:53 PM

View Postjackdawsson, on 24 July 2011 - 02:24 PM, said:

Age of Mythology
Age of Empires 2 (Gold)
Command & Conquer Generals (Deluxe)
Diablo 2
Lego Star Wars
Rise of Nations
Starcraft
Beyond C&C Generals and Lego Star Wars that others have mentioned being Universal, Age of Mythology also received a UB patch.

http://destineergame...rt/?page_id=101

I'm really hoping given Blizzard's long history of Mac support they would finally release UB patches for Diablo 2 and Starcraft now that Rosetta is gone. However, I guess the financial incentive isn't there with the focus on Starcraft II and Diablo 3.

#49 jackdawsson

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:00 AM

View Postltcommander.data, on 24 July 2011 - 09:53 PM, said:

Beyond C&C Generals and Lego Star Wars that others have mentioned being Universal, Age of Mythology also received a UB patch.

http://destineergame...rt/?page_id=101

I'm really hoping given Blizzard's long history of Mac support they would finally release UB patches for Diablo 2 and Starcraft now that Rosetta is gone. However, I guess the financial incentive isn't there with the focus on Starcraft II and Diablo 3.

Thanks for that! I'll second those wishes, particularly re Starcraft.

I can appreciate Blizzard's lack of financial incentive here, but seems a great shame losing these timeless classics to all Mac gamers upgrading to OS X Lion. IMO, such a loss is still far too soon.

#50 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:07 AM

I guess we'll get rescued by Cider versions of the Windows equivalents. That is how I survived going from the Mac OS 9 era..
"They're everywhere!" -And now, time for some Legend of Zelda.

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#51 Frigidman™

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:13 AM

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#52 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:23 AM

I upgraded (updated*) today. Starting to like it actually. I haven't really had to encounter versions yet but everything else is quite nice despite the rather chuggy performance on my now very dated machine. I'm going to need to go ahead with that SSD after all as soon as i get a spare hundred bucks.

The inverted scroll is the silliest thing i've seen apple do in a while. It doesn't make sense on a mouse at all and then still on a multitouch surface or even older trackpad it doesn't work in the same way it does on the iDevices. You're not touching what you see so it doesn't translate well at all to desktop.

Overall I like how simple it is, yet at heart when i want it to the system backs off and lets me do my own really powerful popsnizzle.

I actually can see myself using the Launch Pad (not to mention all the new mac users would find it very intuitive) whenever i do need to on the odd occasion use something that isn't on my dock.

Fullscreen apps work alright despite the heinously slow animation on my system.

I am not fond of the way Mission control has Cut the all windows feature from expose but i'm yet to really give it a chance. the side swiping spaces is concerning at first but it now swaps the spaces on the fly depending on recently used (not unalike the way cmd+tab orders your applications). I think this could become great after testing through a few power and desktop space hungry sessions.


Now to hunt down that SSD.

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#53 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:10 AM

If the animations are chuggy on your computer it probably has to do with the aging GPU and other hardware if anything and adding an SSD probably wouldn't help that. I have a regular hard drive in my system and I get no "chugging".

You could have the "side swiping spaces" gesture in SL but only if you installed a third party program to change the gestures and that didn't work as well as how it's now built in into Lion. I don't find mission control to be complicated to figure out or anything.... the only thing was where did they hide the pin applications option? Lo and behold it was in the right click menu in the dock. Still it would be handy to at least be able to rename the desktops and reorder them manually if you want. When you turn off the smart reordering you just can't do anything with their order at all. You could make a screenshot that is just as "bad" or worse than the one being picked on with expose previously to be honest.

I don't see myself using launchpad much as the stacks I had setup in SL for games and applications still works and are more convenient for me than paging through different pages of applications even after I organized them and add to that the fact that icons in there that weren't added by the app store aren't removable unless you do some major hacking... and for those icons that you can remove since you got them off the app store removing them nukes the app from your hard drive not even sending it to the trash it seems. Most of the time there's not really an easy way to remove icons from there once you've added them.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7


#54 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 04:42 PM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 26 July 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

If the animations are chuggy on your computer it probably has to do with the aging GPU and other hardware if anything and adding an SSD probably wouldn't help that. I have a regular hard drive in my system and I get no "chugging".


Well aware of this

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#55 Diablofett

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 08:56 PM

Awesome post Frigidman. Does anyone here like to not have access to the library folder by default? It reminds me of something... oh yes, Winblows.



View PostFrigidman, on 26 July 2011 - 09:13 AM, said:



#56 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:00 PM

If you own a mac with a multitouch trackpad then definitely get Lion. The new amount of gestures just make using the OS a real pleasure all the time
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#57 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:54 PM

Yeah I love the satire there Frigidman, there seems to be a lot of bitching for bitching sake over this OS.

I mean the bulk of these features are obviously being implemented to ipadize the system. I can see it working quite well. I used to deal with a lot of people new to macs and computers, and whilst some of them found OS X really easy to navigate, there were a bunch of them that just never got past the filesystem. Launchpad is just a way of integrating that app store ecosystem into the design of the OS. I  can't see many power users making much use of it at all. I mean, who here even uses the app store unless they have to? I'll use the fullscreen business for aperture and iWork but it's of more use when you're on a display 13"es or smaller i should imagine.

Mission control is a tough one. I think i will grow to really like it (especially the way it finally divides each monitor its own info) but i'm puzzled again as to why they had to kill the all windows function. Let us use it if we want to, it is a little different to the mission control page. I don't see that the two can't co-exist, mission control is a good replacement for the poorly functioning (IMHO) spaces homepage, it accomplishes all tasks at once. But sometimes we just want to see all our windows really quickly.

I don't really care for it much at all but i'm still confused as to why Apple needed to phase out Rosetta. What was stopping it from being an optional download?

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#58 teflon

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 03:33 AM

The problem is that for 99% of the world's computer using populace, using computers is damned hard to understand. iPads and iOS are easy, the gestures make sense and being able to touch things just works. On desktops we've got 20 years of built up crust which some will find completely impenetrable. For the usability of computers for the every-person, that needed to be addressed, and I think Apple have done this really quite well:

- My parents will just stick EVERYTHING onto the desktop. Beyond that, if an app doesn't default to save to the desktop those files might as well be gone forever. Spotlight is absolutely no use if he can't remember or think of the words he wants to be searching for... So having the All Your Files thing is a good idea. Now I just need something to make him cmd-D rather than cmd-S when he wants to save a website *facepalm*

- LaunchPad is the Apple solution to the Dock with 1000 Apps that you so often see. It's simple to grasp for new people to click on it, and they'll find everything there. Again, navigating to the Applications folder, and then finding an app they have no idea the name of... That's hard for people. My parents have saved Print Centre to the Dock... What?!

- Full screen... Well, since most people will full screen stuff as much as they can anyway, it's good to have it as an option. Specially when you're starved of screen space on an 11" or 13" MBA/MBP. I'll never use it personally, mind.

- Mission Control brings Spaces into the fold to help with full screen apps. One button to do everything, but it'll probably still be a bit obtuse for total newbies.

Do I like a lot of the iOS crap they've shoved into it? Not particularly. Do I think it's a bad thing for the OS? No, I think it's actually a good thing for everyone.
The number of times we'll be called by family because they can't find or do something should lessen considerably, and it's not like we have to actually use any of this. I've reversed every single change I didn't like apart from the Sidebar order in the Finder.

These changes aren't for Pros or those used to computing. They're for the lowest common denominator. Some will work and make sense, others (like reverse scrolling) were just a nice idea, but are damned stupid.
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#59 jackdawsson

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 03:47 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 26 July 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

If you own a mac with a multitouch trackpad then definitely get Lion. The new amount of gestures just make using the OS a real pleasure all the time

I'm sure you're right &, by the by, some great humour from Frigidman. :)

However, I don't own an iPad, so have zero interest in any iOS integration. Since my iMac fried, my only Mac now is an old 12" iBook (PPC). Frankly, barely useful these days, but kept purely for writing & the anti-glare screen. Hence, I'm buying a Mini anytime now (maybe a few days wait at most, just to read more about other users experiences with Lion).

What's for sure is that I'll always primarily be a keyboard & mouse user. I've no plans to buy a multi-touch trackpad, nor any of Apple's glossy laptops (the anti-glare MBP is overkill for my needs). Makes me wonder whether Lion's new stuff might be mostly superfluous for those like me &, bar not having the new Mini's faster CPU, it'd be more useful getting the older Mini with Snow Leopard at a decent discount.

PS: just thinking aloud as of course only I can decide.

#60 teflon

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 06:29 AM

View Postjackdawsson, on 27 July 2011 - 03:47 AM, said:

Makes me wonder whether Lion's new stuff might be mostly superfluous for those like me

That's beside the point. The OS is flexible enough to be more welcoming to new or inexperienced computer users, whilst also letting you completely ditch all the new stuff if you want to use it as though you were still in 10.6.
Polytetrafluoroethylene to my friends.

Macbook Pro - C2D 2.4Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Geforce 8600M GT 256Mb / 15.4"
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Self-built PC - C2Q Q8300 2.5Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Radeon 7850 OC 1GB / W7 x64
and a beautiful HP LP2475w 24" H-IPS monitor