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#21 Cougar

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 10:06 AM

View Postteflon, on 21 July 2011 - 03:56 AM, said:

Cmd-Delete or Apple-Backspace depending on how you want to say it to "Don't Save" now.

Thanks for the tip!


View PostSneaky Snake, on 21 July 2011 - 07:55 AM, said:

How to disable lions resume feature

www.macrumors.com/2011/07/20/how-to-disable-lions-resume-feature/

Sorry I'm on my phone so I don't feel like doing legit links

Yeah, I'm aware of that, I don't want to disable it completely because it's incredibly useful a lot of the time. It's just incredibly annoying in a few circumstances. I've sent Apple feedback. Apple does listen sometimes--I remember 10.5.2 adding an option for a solid menu bar and bringing back hierarchical menus in the dock--so I'm hopeful.

#22 Diablofett

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:38 PM

View PostFrigidman, on 20 July 2011 - 02:39 PM, said:

Lion is a whole lot of lion droppings. I will be sticking with snow leopard for as long as forever unless apple makes a new os after lion that is not like lion. Its crap. I will never pay money for that.

The droppings are still steaming at that. I will not be buying this OS either, I do not like it at all. The lack of Rosetta being one of my many complaints.

#23 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:43 PM

Jeepers people. Lion isn't the worse thing to happen to the world. I have it installed and really like it.

Give it a chance. Maybe install it on a partition or something. There are a lot of good things here
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#24 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 04:29 PM

I don't know why there's so much vitriol over this update... I've upgraded and it seems fine. I here just need to settle into it as some things have changed\been moved. It'll only get better as I settle into it and customize it more to my liking as with any major OS upgrade.

I'm glad I haven't really been using any PowerPC apps for quite some time and all my games are intel.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#25 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 04:49 PM

There is one extremely annoying thing that happened though with the lion update, the volume up/down and mute keys are my MBP's keyboard are locked, like when i press them it just gives a greyed out speaker symbol.

Not really sure how to fix this, I tried a restart :S
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#26 teflon

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:24 PM

An odd one, that. Check the audio preferences is the best I can come up with. Are you able to change the volume there?

Noticed one extra thing. My MBP, previously excluded from this in Snow Leopard despite being capable, is running the full 64-bit kernel and extensions. YAY!

Just hanging on a few things now. VMWare Fusion, NTFS-3G and MacFuse need updates, but I booted to my old HDD (over an eSATA port on my expresscard no less, which was exceedingly cool, and pretty snappy), and the clone back of Windows went swimmingly. It's now got a little room to breath, much as I'd love to smother it.

Speaking of smothering, it seems like Skype 2.8 has reached the end of its tether with Lion. Animations within it don't want to work properly, which makes knowing when someone's typing a bit tricky. Shame that Skype 5 is all sorts of disgusting. Seriously, Snow Leopard to Lion has nothing on Skype 2.8 to Skype 5. It makes my skin crawl, though not half as much as the Windows version!

I did also have a fairly amusing bug where all the animations decided to not play yesterday. So no highlights in menus, no scrolling sideways to another menu, no dock resizing, and none of the silliness that they've created for Lion either... Reboot and it sorted itself, though.

Aside from that, I'm back to normal again. Normal includes an annoying bug where my USB audio device resets itself whenever the optical drive is triggered by anything. Doesn't happen in Windows, that one.
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#27 Cougar

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 06:41 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 21 July 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

There is one extremely annoying thing that happened though with the lion update, the volume up/down and mute keys are my MBP's keyboard are locked, like when i press them it just gives a greyed out speaker symbol.

Not really sure how to fix this, I tried a restart :S

This is a bug. Until Apple fixes it, insert and take out a pair of headphones. You'll have to do it again when you restart.

#28 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:25 PM

I haven't been able to use those keys at all ever since I hooked up my mac to a receiver via optical cable.... that has nothing to do with Lion though and happened under SL too.

BTW I think it's about time to start a Lion compatibility list... I would start one but I don't feel up to maintaining it.

So far three of my games aren't working for me... American McGee's Alice crashes with some kind of .cpp error... Jedi Knight II crashes with a standard OS X crash dialog and my copy of Plants vs Zombies says it can't be played on this version of OS X.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#29 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 02:11 AM

That specific problem is due to how the audio out port physically detects an optical cable. If you look inside the port, you should see a red light. Theres a jumper (I think it is called in english), that doesnt position itself correctly. Plugging something in and out a few times should remedy the problem.

Quite many MBPs are affected.
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#30 mattw

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 02:49 AM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 21 July 2011 - 08:25 PM, said:

BTW I think it's about time to start a Lion compatibility list... I would start one but I don't feel up to maintaining it.

I've started testing my games (not finished yet) but here is what I found to date:

Abuse SDL - crashed once then worked
AOE3 - crashed once then worked
American McGee's Alice - crashes on launch "aglGetError: invalid enumeration at /AspyrBuild/depot/Alice/Source/mac/mac_glimp.cpp line 1038
Argonaut 2149 OK
Assassin's Creed 2 OK
AC2 Brotherhood - no keyboard in menus - have seen this before with AC2 once or twice
Barrage - crash on start
BS Midway - OK
BS Pacific - OK
Bioshock -OK
Brain App - OK
Brother in Arms - both OK
Borderlands - OK
Bugdom 2 OK
Call of Duty - retail CD - SP & MP both crash on launch
Call of Duty UO - retail CS - SP crash on launch, MP loads OK
Call of Duty 2 retail - SP & MP OK
Call of Duty 4 retail - SP & MP OK
Cars - works but videos are all covered in white & problems changing controls if using a wheel
Chopper 2 - OK
Close Combat First to Fight - OK
Cold War - OK
Colin McRae Rally - OK
Command & Conquer Generals - OK
C&C Red Alert 3 - OK
Cortex Command b24 - crashes on launch
Defcon - OK
D2-XL (Descent) - OK
Dr Who Adventure Games - OK
Doom 3 - OK
Doomsday (Doom 1,2 etc) - OK
Dragon Age - OK
Dragon Age 2 - OK
Drop Point Alaska - OK
eDuke32 (with High-Res add-on) - crash on exit
Elite Force HM - OK
Enigmo 2 OK
ETQW - OK
Empire at War - OK but loads or errors in console
Flatout 2 - OK (10.7 patch)
Fable - crashes on launch
Flightgear - crash on launch
Ford Racing 2 - OK
GTA3 - OK
GTA - SA OK
GTA - VC OK
Halo - OK
Hexen 2 GL - OK
Horde of Orcs - OK
Jade Empire - OK
Jammin Racer - OK
Jedi Academy - SP & MP both crash on launch
Jedi Knight 2 - SP & MP both crash on launch
KOTOR - Appstore version - OK
Myth 2 - OK
Marathon various versions (Aleph One) - need to use latest beta not the main release
Magnetix - OK
Mondo Solitaire - OK
Nanosaur 2 - OK
Ottomatic - OK
Pangea Arcade - OK
Prey - retail OK
GL Quake - OK
Quake 2 - OK
ioQuake3 - OK
Quake 4 - OK
Redline - OK
Riddick - OK (10.7 patch)
RTCW - Single Player OK except first rocket base mission level crashes for me
Wolfenstein ET - crashes on launch
Survivor - OK
Shadow Grounds - OK
ScummVM - OK
Secret of Monkey Island SE - OK
Splinter Cell Conviction - black screen can hear it running - have to force quit - after some messing with .cfg got working but no splash screens
Starcraft 2 - OK
Tomb Raider Anniversary - OK
The Ur-Quan Masters - OK
UT 2004 - OK
VGP 3 - OK (force feedback gone unless kext added back from 10.6.8)
Wesnoth - works in windowed mode, crashes full screen
Warcraft 3 TFT - OK (BNUpdate & Map editors are PPC so no updates or editting)

Got a few more to test including those that need discs. I've left WINE/Crossover based ports out - most I've tried so far are fine but some do have issues like a crash or the mouse no longer working (I assume caused by changes to X11 or something in 10.7 that is referenced.)

The biggest bugs for me are the lack of the force feedback kernel extension (had to restore it from a Time Machine backup) and a bug in AppleHDA.kext which means that if I play anything in DD 5.1 or DTS all stereo sound is lost unless I reboot. Apparently this bug was there in 10.6.8 as well.

Edited by mattw, 22 July 2011 - 12:48 PM.

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#31 ltcommander.data

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:43 AM

I just worry that now that OpenGL 2.1 is called "Legacy", does Apple intend to drop support for it sooner rather than later like Rosetta? I'll assume Apple will be generous enough to keep supporting it in their next OS 10.8 as a grace period. But assuming 2 year releases of major OS versions, if legacy OpenGL 2.1 is dropped in OS 10.9, that means every OpenGL application and game on the market today will cease to work in 4 years. That's kind of scary. Hopefully legacy OpenGL 2.1 will be treated more like Carbon, which has been clinging along quite nicely despite being a transitionary technology and now no longer receiving new features, rather than like Rosetta.

#32 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 09:15 AM

To me it seems like OpenGL is accumulative and newer versions are a superset of older versions so if they got rid of OpenGL2.1 they'd be getting rid of a lot of functionality that newer versions build upon. That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Although after the dropping of rosetta I can understand people who heavily relied upon it feeling insecure now and thinking apple is going to drop everything.

View Postmattw, on 22 July 2011 - 02:49 AM, said:

The biggest bugs for me are the lack of the force feedback kernel extension (had to restore it from a Time Machine backup) and a bug in AppleHDA.kext which means that if I play anything in DD 5.1 or DTS all stereo sound is lost unless I reboot. Apparently this bug was there in 10.6.8 as well.
That force feedback thing hardly ever worked for any game in Snow Leopard either to be honest. Ironically the only game I had force feedback in was Silent HIll 2 in Cider with my Logitech Rumblepad 2. I guess I may want to grab that next and install it though.

I never noticed that sound problem before.... not even in Snow Leopard. Do you use Plex to watch your movies?

BTW, I play darkplaces with all the high res additions for it instead of GLQuake and that works fine too in Lion. You should put your post as a new thread like the old snow leopard one.

Also how well a WINESkin port works really depends on what version of WINE you use in there.... newer versions past 1.3.15 have lots of mouse code changed and depending on the game you may have to use different versions some games can't at the moment go past .17 and others not past .18 and so forth. Crossover\Cider ports should work fine considering they don't use the new mouse code and or not even X11.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#33 mattw

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 12:55 PM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 22 July 2011 - 09:15 AM, said:

That force feedback thing hardly ever worked for any game in Snow Leopard either to be honest. Ironically the only game I had force feedback in was Silent HIll 2 in Cider with my Logitech Rumblepad 2. I guess I may want to grab that next and install it though.

I never noticed that sound problem before.... not even in Snow Leopard. Do you use Plex to watch your movies?

You should put your post as a new thread like the old snow leopard one.

Also how well a WINESkin port works really depends on what version of WINE you use in there.... newer versions past 1.3.15 have lots of mouse code changed and depending on the game you may have to use different versions some games can't at the moment go past .17 and others not past .18 and so forth. Crossover\Cider ports should work fine considering they don't use the new mouse code and or not even X11.

Force feedback (once the .kext is installed) works better in some titles than others - VGP3 is a good example and when we had Rosetta so was Nascar 2003.

The sound bug happens just using Apple's own DVD Player.app to output 5.1 over the digital out. Got to reboot after using it if I want any sound elsewhere.

I'm happy for a moderator to move the list (I keep editing to update as I work through stuff).

The weird mouse thing was with a game called Enclave I purchased from GOG. I used Wineskin to make a bottle with the latest WINE build 1.3.24 ran it once in Snow Leopard and it worked great. I tried it again in Lion and as soon as I use the mouse the camera goes crazy. It's odd because nothing in the bottle has changed.
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#34 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 01:01 PM

I never used apple's dvd player I always just used Plex or VLC... or on the odd occasion quicktime... I never experienced that problem with those. I wish plex would be update to use Lion's new fullscreen though... I used to just assign it to it's own space in SL.

1.3.24 is slightly improved over more recent WINE builds depending on game but mouse support is hit or miss even on Snow Leopard. You may want to try 1.3.17 or below with that game. Like I said I use different versions depending on game and currently only use newer versions for either games that I don't play with a mouse or for the few games that do work well with it like Clive Barker's Jericho and Wolfenstein... although wolfenstein has an issue where I have to go into the mouse preferences and tweak the mouse sensitivity (I just really have to touch it like move it down one notch and move it back up one notch) before that issue with the camera going crazy goes away. Again like I said your mileage may vary depending on the game. But it's not really a Lion issue per say more like a WINE issue and it's happening on SL as well as Lion.

In other words with WINEskin engines you shouldn't just assume the latest is the best for all games.

BTW I don't think I mentioned it but I get the same error with American McGee's Alice as you do.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

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#35 pantherv

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 12:20 AM

I installed a new 1tb into the mac pro. One thing i noticed is that the mac app store see's my apps i had downloaded on my original 10.6 drive,but it wont let me re load them on the 10.7 drive. THat being said I can run the apps from the 10.6 drive without a hitch so far,but if i took it out i wouldnt have them. My guess is that then the app store would let me download them again.
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#36 ltcommander.data

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 07:57 AM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 22 July 2011 - 09:15 AM, said:

To me it seems like OpenGL is accumulative and newer versions are a superset of older versions so if they got rid of OpenGL2.1 they'd be getting rid of a lot of functionality that newer versions build upon. That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Although after the dropping of rosetta I can understand people who heavily relied upon it feeling insecure now and thinking apple is going to drop everything.
OpenGL 3.x can be implemented in a backwards compatible manner, but Apple chose to only implement the Core profile, which consists of all the new shader features and removes the old fixed function stuff that OpenGL 2.1 and earlier included. This is kind of like Windows Vista where DX10 was introduced as a non-backwards compatible clean break and DX9 is maintained as a separate API for older games. In Lion is seems like OpenGL 2.1 and 3.2 are kept as separate renderers.

#37 teflon

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 10:15 AM

View Postpantherv, on 23 July 2011 - 12:20 AM, said:

I installed a new 1tb into the mac pro. One thing i noticed is that the mac app store see's my apps i had downloaded on my original 10.6 drive,but it wont let me re load them on the 10.7 drive. THat being said I can run the apps from the 10.6 drive without a hitch so far,but if i took it out i wouldnt have them. My guess is that then the app store would let me download them again.

Drag and drop them from the 10.6 drive to the 10.7 drive's Applications folder. The App Store searches all "Applications" folders it can find, but it's a bit dumb with certain things, such as this.
If it can't see something, then yes, you can just re-download those applications.
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#38 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 06:16 PM

Is there any way to get a mouse with a scroll wheel to perform the classic way, but have it the new way with the trackpad?

I tried deselected the 'move like a finger..." method under mouse method, and selected it under trackpad, but it seems like the trackpad setting just overrules the mouse one, and makes my death adder scroll like a finger
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#39 DaveyJJ

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 07:20 PM

Installed. Love it. Combat Mission Battle for Normandy update is hosed but being fixed. Coincidentally, my optical drive broke on this 50 week old iMac yesterday and I managed a Genius Bar appt for today and four hours later picked up my iMac with new drive installed. Nice. Best feature of Lion? Besides the swiping left and right on the Magic Mouse to go through your browsing history? The ability to have different backgrounds in all your "spaces"/mission control screens ... awesome.

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#40 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 08:12 PM

I installed that iCal and Address book theme yesterday as I'm a fan of consistency although I'm not sure I like the address book skin as much as the iCal one. I knew someone was going to make a skin to fix that though sooner or later. I was surprised that it was sooner though.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

Late 2012 27 inch iMac, Core i7 Quad 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB, 3TB HDD - Mavericks

Late 2009 27 inch iMac, Core i5 2.6GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI Radeon 4850HD 512MB, 1TB HDD - Mavericks

Mac Mini, PowerPC G4 1.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9200 32MB, 256GB HDD - Leopard

Dell Inspiron 1200 Notebook: 1.2GHz Celeron, 1.2GB RAM, Intel GMA915, 75GB HDD - Ubuntu

Generic Black Tower PC, Dual Core 64-bit 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, GeForce 9600 GT 512MB - Windows 7