128 replies to this topic

[the Battle Cat]

The place of wailing and gnashing of teeth awaits thee.

[The Animaster]

Wumpus, on 17 November 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

Not sure sure that post with all the bootleg admissions is really the uh, best thing you want to do?

Well, I'm not going to further discuss my views on the software industry -- however, I do want to take back what I said about being able to unlock all the tracks, cars and cash. I tried playing it after unlocking all the tracks, cars and cash and frankly I was totally LOST! This is definitely NOT something a newbie player should do.

For one -- with all the tracks unlocked, it's difficult to decide where to go next -- which races to pick through.

With everything unlocked, there's also little point in playing the game -- except to unlock the new liveries and... drive.

Driving is also considerably 'harder' for a newbie if they go for the best-of-the-best of cars. There's a reason why you have to start out with the lower performance cars -- it conditions you for the really fast and furious ones later.

So in short, unless you've already had a few hours of driving, I suggest you keep those extra options closed. The game is fairly easy enough to play through without them.

[The Animaster]

Graphics report here. I'm on an early 2011 15" Macbook Pro with a 1GB Radeon 6750, 8GB RAM and a native screen resolution of 1680x1050 (I got the high-end graphics option with my macbook pro).

I only get a measly 29 FPS which goes down to 19 FPS on the Malaysian tracks on 1680x1050 graphics at MEDIUM settings!

The best performance comes from a resolution of 1024x640 at medium settings (with MSAA at 4x to compensate for the extreme jaggies at the crappy resolution) -- I get 60FPS with this, which goes down to (gulp) 30 FPS on the Malaysian tracks.

I absolutely HATE having to rescind my comments, but my previous ones were sort of premature. After playing NFS SHIFT 2 (on Bootcamp) I felt it wasn't so bad after all -- aside from the fact that I have to boot up in Windoze to play it.

I'm going to test out Dirt 2 for the PC on my mac and see how it compares to Dirt 2 mac. I'm hoping to get the same performance, but something is really telling me it's going to run much faster on the PC. D3 for PC seems to have better FPS than D2 for mac... could it be that D3 uses a better, more optimised engine?? Not likely... : (

[JaguarGod]

The Animaster, on 22 November 2011 - 01:33 AM, said:

I'm going to test out Dirt 2 for the PC on my mac and see how it compares to Dirt 2 mac. I'm hoping to get the same performance, but something is really telling me it's going to run much faster on the PC. D3 for PC seems to have better FPS than D2 for mac... could it be that D3 uses a better, more optimised engine?? Not likely... : (

Well, you should find that they are somewhat close, but the PC version always runs better on EVERY ONE of my Mac setups with bootcamp than the Native Mac versions. Also, Dirt 3 uses an updated version of the EGO engine and is a bit better working in a multi-core, multi-thread environment.

[edddeduck]

The Animaster, on 22 November 2011 - 01:33 AM, said:

Graphics report here. I'm on an early 2011 15" Macbook Pro with a 1GB Radeon 6750, 8GB RAM and a native screen resolution of 1680x1050 (I got the high-end graphics option with my macbook pro).

I only get a measly 29 FPS which goes down to 19 FPS on the Malaysian tracks on 1680x1050 graphics at MEDIUM settings!

The AMD GL Drivers and the AMD DX drivers are different and some features that have very little impact on the PC will have an impact on the Mac. I can't recall which settings caused the most problems but often just turning down one setting or lowering the res by one and the fps will be smooth. The 6000 card will performance brilliantly then hit a cliff of performance and suddenly drop if you push it too much.

You should try some different settings as the main issue (based on your comments) is not caused by the resolution. I would suggest looking at dropping the water and particle effects to +1 from the min settings (the game looks pretty close to max settings). You should then find you can play in a higher res (something in the 1280x960 range) with the game looking good. Pretty sure running particle and water on max can have higher overhead in some use cases.

Edwin

[UmarOMC1]

25% off ($29.96) at GamersGate

[The Animaster]

OK.... THIS sucks (I mean the situation, not the game). I just installed the PC version of Dirt 2 on my mac in bootcamp and guess what? A year later I see it all for myself: The PC version _IS_ better. Not by a little either -- BY A FRIGGIN' LOT~!!!!!!

On the SAME setup, Dirt 2 runs at full 1680x1050 res with HIGH settings all around!! If I want it to behave like the mac version I can up those graphics to ULTRA! This seriously bites. Not only that, but on the PC version I get force feedback and all the functions of my G25 wheel. Oh and please don't mention that the PC version is so much more affordable (I didn't use the word 'cheap' there, hey) -- coz it _IS_!

Ah well... all is not lost. You need to have it to know eh?

I'm going to go run out and buy Dirt2 and 3 for the PC now... *sigh*

I think for racing sims, you seriously need a game coded specifically for mac. Ports won't do it. That, or run the PC version in Bootcamp. Heck -- it even runs better than the mac version in Parallels! : (

Lesson learned.

[Wumpus]

The Animaster, on 24 September 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

OK.... THIS sucks (I mean the situation, not the game). I just installed the PC version of Dirt 2 on my mac in bootcamp and guess what? A year later I see it all for myself: The PC version _IS_ better. Not by a little either -- BY A FRIGGIN' LOT~!!!!!!

On the SAME setup, Dirt 2 runs at full 1680x1050 res with HIGH settings all around!! If I want it to behave like the mac version I can up those graphics to ULTRA! This seriously bites. Not only that, but on the PC version I get force feedback and all the functions of my G25 wheel. Oh and please don't mention that the PC version is so much more affordable (I didn't use the word 'cheap' there, hey) -- coz it _IS_!

Ah well... all is not lost. You need to have it to know eh?

I'm going to go run out and buy Dirt2 and 3 for the PC now... *sigh*

I think for racing sims, you seriously need a game coded specifically for mac. Ports won't do it. That, or run the PC version in Bootcamp. Heck -- it even runs better than the mac version in Parallels! : (

Lesson learned.

o.O

What are you even trying to run this on? Your post is frantic but vague.

I found Dirt 2 to run fantastic on all the computers I tried it on and still looked amazing. You're complaining of High to Ultra differences? That's really fussy And in almost every instance, the PC version will run better than the Mac version on the same hardware. This is not an issue specific to Dirt 2. If you're a Mac gamer you need to think in Mac specs, not "it ran like this in Windows, why isn't it running the same on my Mac?"

I get Full force feedback in my Logitech wheel. If yours isn't working with the Mac version of Dirt 2, try asking Feral about it. They are very accommodating with setup and/or adding in controllers. Its a possibility your specific wheel won't work, but you should find out.

Comparing ported Mac game prices to PC game prices is absurd. They often come out years later. And given our much smaller market, prices are never that dirt (pun not intended) cheap.

[JaguarGod]

The Animaster, on 24 September 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

...but on the PC version I get force feedback and all the functions of my G25 wheel.

If you are running Lion (10.7) or Mountain Lion (10.8), the Logitech FFB kext was omitted in the OS. You need to install it with a kext installer and your wheel will work great. The G25 is a great wheel for Mac along with the G27 and the DFGT. The Momo Racing wheel (black) runs great out of the box. But again, you need the FFB kext installed to get the FFB to work. If you want to know how to do this and get your G25 working with full FFB, please go to my new Mac OSX Racing Sim, Auto Sport Driving, site (sorry for the plug) and go to the support section.

If you want to see how the G27 works in OSX, I have videos in the Media section of it being used for my game. Remember, for the best results and to turn off the 900 degrees of rotation (if you like the wheel that way), plug the wheel in AFTER the computer has started.

Try not to get discouraged about games on the Mac. Feral does a great job on getting them over to OSX. I think over the next few years it may get a bit better. The Mac App Store does bring a bit more attention to Mac gaming, though a lot of the games are not power or AAA titles. But I love OSX and I want native games on Mac for all of us long-time Mac players.

[The Animaster]

JaguarGod, on 24 September 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

If you are running Lion (10.7) or Mountain Lion (10.8), the Logitech FFB kext was omitted in the OS. You need to install it with a kext installer and your wheel will work great. The G25 is a great wheel for Mac along with the G27 and the DFGT. The Momo Racing wheel (black) runs great out of the box. But again, you need the FFB kext installed to get the FFB to work. If you want to know how to do this and get your G25 working with full FFB, please go to my new Mac OSX Racing Sim, Auto Sport Driving, site (sorry for the plug) and go to the support section.

If you want to see how the G27 works in OSX, I have videos in the Media section of it being used for my game. Remember, for the best results and to turn off the 900 degrees of rotation (if you like the wheel that way), plug the wheel in AFTER the computer has started.

Try not to get discouraged about games on the Mac. Feral does a great job on getting them over to OSX. I think over the next few years it may get a bit better. The Mac App Store does bring a bit more attention to Mac gaming, though a lot of the games are not power or AAA titles. But I love OSX and I want native games on Mac for all of us long-time Mac players.

Ah, there you are! Thanks for the link. I found your suggestion on another site but the link was broken : (

I've tried it in the past (from your instructions) but I couldn't get it to work. Will try again before bugging you through email : P

As for Feral... I understand that they do what they can... it's not a very easy job and really, there's only so much anyone can do when it comes to ports.  I guess I just have to accept the fact that the mac versions will never meet the PC ones, as Windoze seems to have better stuff in terms of DirectX. : (

[The Animaster]

Wumpus, on 24 September 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

o.O

What are you even trying to run this on? Your post is frantic but vague.

Early 2011 Matte, Hi-res Macbook Pro 2.2Ghz i7 (quad core) 16GB RAM with AMD Radeon 6750 (1GB)

Quote

I found Dirt 2 to run fantastic on all the computers I tried it on and still looked amazing.

That's what I thought too, at first. Then I realised that being forced to run it on low-medium settings at 1024x640 and just over 29FPS wasn't so great after all when compared to the PC version running it at 1680x1050 and all high settings -- with better FPS (40-60).

Quote

You're complaining of High to Ultra differences?

Nope -- low-medium on the mac vs high-ultra on PC.

Quote

That's really fussy And in almost every instance, the PC version will run better than the Mac version on the same hardware. This is not an issue specific to Dirt 2. If you're a Mac gamer you need to think in Mac specs, not "it ran like this in Windows, why isn't it running the same on my Mac?"

I don't like to think in "mac specs" really. If the game were made specifically for the mac, it would run great... but these are ports of PC games... with PC code. I naively thought they were magically recompiled for the mac OS, graphics optimisation and all.

Quote

I get Full force feedback in my Logitech wheel. If yours isn't working with the Mac version of Dirt 2, try asking Feral about it. They are very accommodating with setup and/or adding in controllers. Its a possibility your specific wheel won't work, but you should find out.

Not from my experience. The last time I asked, I was told to wait (that was CMR Rally 2005) and said wheel support never came. After asking again I was told the truth -- it simply wasn't possible (to get all the added functionality of the wheel) -- I was given false hope on several occasions. Another thing -- this is a G25 steering wheel I'm talking about here. Top of the line, and a VERY popular wheel... how they would miss support for such a mainstream device is beyond me. Surely they must be able to obtain a G25 to test with? I even got a custom made brass encoding wheel replacement for mine, and I'm not a developer. Just an average Joe. I think the developers can really push this if they tried harder... but times are tough, and costs are high for such "little" details...

Quote

Comparing ported Mac game prices to PC game prices is absurd. They often come out years later. And given our much smaller market, prices are never that dirt (pun not intended) cheap.

Precisely -- they come out later and are pricier. Which bring us to the point -- that there's hardly any reason why we should get mac ports of games these days when we can get better performance, at better price points with the PC games. My main reason for Bootcamp has been for teaching purposes -- so that I can do class demos with the same PC software the school uses. Gaming on Bootcamp was always a 'last resort'. Sadly, I have to say it's now become my first resort. If I can't get the PC version, _then_ I look for the mac version -- rather than if I can't get (or wait) for the mac version -- get the PC version. Up to now no one's really pointed this out to other mac users (or at least I haven't come across anyone who has). Yes, people have said that the original Windoze games run much better... but there's always been the benefit of doubt; no one's really said "Look -- DON'T get it ever. You'll regret it. Just pick up a copy of Windoze, install it using Bootcamp, and play the PC version". No one's gone up and suggested anything like that... but that's what I'm suggesting now.

My main concern about keeping gaming on the mac was viruses. Plus, I don't find it very convenient to boot into bootcamp just to play games. But for very taxing games you need to quit all your other apps anyways to get the best performance -- so a reboot become less of an issue.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

Just one quick thing here. You mention this "Heck -- it even runs better than the mac version in Parallels!" in your first post. I hate to break it to you but when you run Windows through parallels it's still on top of OS X. When running a 3D app it has to through the underlying OS to get to the 3D graphics functions which are the heaviest functions. It has to wrap to the underlying OS' graphics drivers... in fact they're using similar code to WINE to perform this task. They both even share the same limitations as to level of support such as DirectX9 and OpenGL2.1.

So if the game can run well through here there's no reason why a native port shouldn't be able to run better, barring something gone wrong with the native port. This however doesn't apply to absolutely everything in OS X. Not everything is badly optimized but that's the thing.. some things are. As some have pointed out some games like RAGE which is a native OpenGL app actually ran better in OS X than in Windows. Who knows, perhaps Feral's Direct3D to OpenGL wrapping is having more overhead in DiRT2 than WINE or Parallel's equivalent.

Also, the inconvenience of dual-booting doesn't just come in the form of having to reboot but having to devote hard drive space to the second OS, maintaining the second OS and apps for it, etc.

Also.. you may not see it as much around here because people are more pro-Mac around here but you can find lots of people saying people should use bootcamp for everything elsewhere... or saying people shouldn't even get Macs at all. More people here than you probably realize also use Bootcamp when they don't want to wait for a game to come to OS X.. including some of those people you are responding to. You're not enlightening anyone around here, sorry.

[The Animaster]

Smoke_Tetsu, on 26 September 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

Just one quick thing here. You mention this "Heck -- it even runs better than the mac version in Parallels!" in your first post. I hate to break it to you but when you run Windows through parallels it's still on top of OS X. When running a 3D app it has to through the underlying OS to get to the 3D graphics functions which are the heaviest functions. It has to wrap to the underlying OS' graphics drivers... in fact they're using similar code to WINE to perform this task. They both even share the same limitations as to level of support such as DirectX9 and OpenGL2.1.

So if the game can run well through here there's no reason why a native port shouldn't be able to run better, barring something gone wrong with the native port. This however doesn't apply to absolutely everything in OS X. Not everything is badly optimized but that's the thing.. some things are. As some have pointed out some games like RAGE which is a native OpenGL app actually ran better in OS X than in Windows. Who knows, perhaps Feral's Direct3D to OpenGL wrapping is having more overhead in DiRT2 than WINE or Parallel's equivalent.

Also, the inconvenience of dual-booting doesn't just come in the form of having to reboot but having to devote hard drive space to the second OS, maintaining the second OS and apps for it, etc.

Also.. you may not see it as much around here because people are more pro-Mac around here but you can find lots of people saying people should use bootcamp for everything elsewhere... or saying people shouldn't even get Macs at all. More people here than you probably realize also use Bootcamp when they don't want to wait for a game to come to OS X.. including some of those people you are responding to. You're not enlightening anyone around here, sorry.

Cheers. Yeah, I made a pretty silly sweeping comment there with Parallels. It was from an experience I had last year from running Dirt3 off Parallels (which at that time, seemed to run faster than the mac version of Dirt2). I just tried running Dirt2 off Parallels now and it's worse than Feral's version. I hope that clears things up.

As for enlightening people -- cheers for breaking it clean to me. This is for the newbies out there however... at some point in our lives we were there once.

[JaguarGod]

The Animaster, on 26 September 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

Ah, there you are! Thanks for the link. I found your suggestion on another site but the link was broken : (

I've tried it in the past (from your instructions) but I couldn't get it to work. Will try again before bugging you through email : P

Please let me know how it goes. You can bug me through email whenever you like. I like helping Mac Racers to play natively on OSX.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

The Animaster, on 26 September 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

This is for the newbies out there however... at some point in our lives we were there once.

Yeah, just to be clear though.. many of us here know all that. However we still support Mac gaming due to several reasons. Convenience of having everything in one OS for one. We could have hardwaresoftware that updates things and makes things better or close enough that we don't mind the difference... or sets of people don't demand their games run at 60FPS as long as they are running at least 30FPS or something. After a while performance problems tend to evaporate from sheer power or bug fixes in the OS. Just look at Doom 3... now it's 60+FPS at all time on any recent'ish Mac (it used to have issues due to a combination of bad drivers and slow hardware but now it runs 60FPS even in WINE loaded up with a graphics ehnancement mod.. of course it's OpenGL though)... and of course like I implied earlier that varies by game by game. All my UE3 games used to start out real fast but then get rather sluggish after playing for half an hour or so... but not any more.. like for example my personal Transformers War For Cybertron "port" (it's wrapped in Cider)... seems to run at 60FPS at all times now especially after I unlocked the frame rate by editing the encrypted .ini file so that it doesn't get restricted to 30FPS. Seriously, that happened.

Still that doesn't mean DiRT2's Direct3D to OpenGL translation is optimal. Having to translate like that is sort of like a form of emulation and has to have some kind of overhead. Speaking of which if you think that's bad check out Mario Galaxy running in Dolphin Emulator.... that needs a 4GHz CPU in any OS to run at 60FPS in HD.

I like how you took my response to your post well though. Could have easily gone either way.

[The Animaster]

JaguarGod, on 26 September 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Please let me know how it goes. You can bug me through email whenever you like. I like helping Mac Racers to play natively on OSX.

Actually -- it went VERY well!! THANK YOU so much for the info and links... ! Works with my G25 and OS X 10.8.2!

However -- it ONLY works with the G25... no buzzing for my Logitech RumblePad 2s... : P

Still... big thanks!

[Smoke_Tetsu]

My logitech rumblepad 2 hardly ever had rumble with any game ever. The only game that it had rumble with was Silent Hill 2 in Cider believe it or not. I don't know why that is. Even then it wasn't the full rumble that game is supposed to have. The only times there was rumble was when I was attacked or when I attack like with the chainsaw. My wireless 360 pad has rumble with Feral games but no other including the aforementioned Silent Hill 2 in Cider. So yeah, I believe rumbleFFB support is pretty spotty in OS X much like surround sound support for games is.

[Eric5h5]

My Logitech Rumblepad 2 does work with vibration in Dirt 2, and in other recent-ish Feral games that support gamepads + rumble.  (Can't honestly say it adds a whole lot to the experience though.)

--Eric

[The Animaster]

Eric, what OS are you running?

I am eyeing that wireless 360 pad. One of my Logitech Rumblepads' wires is broken near the controller (I'll try splicing it though) -- which really sucks given I hardly use them and I've taken GREAT care in storing them (ie: loosely coiling the wires)!!! My bro has a wireless 360 controller and RAGE and other games all seem to have built-in support for it. Just seems the best option.

How long do the batteries last though -- and what batteries do you use? I'd be using Panasonic eVoltas... they seem to last longest for me.

[The Animaster]

OK... maybe NOT: http://forums.macrum...t=636420&page=6

Think I should try out my brother's xbox controller first...