231 replies to this topic

[DaveyJJ]

Matt Diamond, on 24 May 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

"Remember offline single player games? We think there's a hidden market for them, and publishers just won't listen to us. Support us and we'll deliver a game to you next year that has NO online requirement!"

Torchlight 2. Three copies for the price of one D3. 'Nuff said.

clocknova, on 24 May 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

I send my money to indie developers, and they rarely disappoint me.

Go Relic!!!

teflon, on 24 May 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Ugh. The girls were all dancing, and I just couldn't concentrate on my Pizza! Night ruined!

I notice no mention was made of the beer?

[Tacohead]

DaveyJJ, on 24 May 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

Torchlight 2. Three copies for the price of one D3. 'Nuff said

Ditto. Besides I already have far too many other games queued up to play as is. So dropping $60 on something like this doesn't really appeal to me right now.

-PN

[badger2d]

On some level, I dislike the idea that the way games are sold is shifting from the paradigm of a product to that of a service.

But in practice, it makes no difference to my playing experience, and so it's nothing for me to get worked up about.

[Cougar]

clocknova, on 20 May 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I expect Blizzard will likely follow suit.

Why would you expect this? There are two upcoming upcoming SC2 expansions, one for WoW. I expect they are already planning ones for D3.

There is zero evidence blizzard will make piecemeal DLC. Just because it's an industry trend doesn't mean Blizzard will do it.

badger2d, on 24 May 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

On some level, I dislike the idea that the way games are sold is shifting from the paradigm of a product to that of a service.

But in practice, it makes no difference to my playing experience, and so it's nothing for me to get worked up about.

Exactly.

And, honestly, I love it how D3 can transition from a single player to a multiplayer game seamlessly. Even if there was an offline option, I wouldn't use it.

[Sneaky Snake]

Janichsan, on 24 May 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

And in how far does that make Diablo 3 any different from Diablo 2 that the vast majority of players only played solo? Diablo never was about story or deep characters and no sane person would expect anything else for the latest installment of it.

I've never played any previous Diablo's. I went in knowing absolutely nothing about the game. I played it solo since that's the way I figured you play most non-MMO RPG's. I was horribly mistaken.

[Wumpus]

I was a die hard soloist in Diablo 2, the online mode was terrible in my opinion. It was all about who could kill the monsters first and steal all the loot. I tried it and hated it.

By contrast, in Diablo 3 the game is much more fun with at least another person. I like to roll with 2 people, 3 or 4 gets too crowded for my tastes, though can be fun at times. It does make it super simple, since I play alone until one of my buddies comes online then he joins. I still played most of my first run through Normal alone, but group play is where its at for Nightmare and higher. I just hit Hell difficulty with my level 51 Wizard. I find I need a barbarian or monk to be most effective as another ranged means there's no one to tank the insanely hard elite monsters.

I know a lot of people decry the online requirement, but its damn well implemented and makes it so easy to play and share and talk. Even if I'm playing alone I like being able to chat to my friends in other games. Find some epic loot? Just hop into their game real quick to show it off or share it. Its true there are occasional lag spikes, but out of some 50 hours of play, a lag spike only killed me once so I don't really care.

You also find significantly better gear with other players in the game, so its all the more reason to have at least 1 other person. I also found I could steamroll Nightmare solo, but adding in one other person actually makes it a challenge. I'm sure I'd get stomped in Hell alone since I just got there and my gear is for NM. But I like the game to be a challenge, and to have more monsters, all of which having another player facilities.

[teflon]

DaveyJJ, on 24 May 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

I notice no mention was made of the beer?

What beer?! The girls did look pretty past it when I answered the door... Gah.

[cleansanchez]

Reports filtering through that Diablo III has smashed sales records I saw above. Explains why the servers were clearly struggling at launch time. From the horse's mouth:

http://eu.blizzard.c...html?id=4662221

The Blizzard forums are starting to quieten down thankfully from the handful of old time Diablo II fans who expected Diablo III to function a lot closer to the old game, and the WoW players who all got free copies who were expecting a vastly different gear system with more predictable stats, drop rates, etc.

Many players just don't want to have to grind for many many many hours to get the gear necessary to not get one-shotted at the highest difficulty level. I LOL. They just wasted their money. Shoulda done some research (like I do) before buying a game.

Wumpus, on 24 May 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

I was a die hard soloist in Diablo 2, the online mode was terrible in my opinion. It was all about who could kill the monsters first and steal all the loot. I tried it and hated it.

By contrast, in Diablo 3 the game is much more fun with at least another person. I like to roll with 2 people, 3 or 4 gets too crowded for my tastes, though can be fun at times. It does make it super simple, since I play alone until one of my buddies comes online then he joins. I still played most of my first run through Normal alone, but group play is where its at for Nightmare and higher. I just hit Hell difficulty with my level 51 Wizard. I find I need a barbarian or monk to be most effective as another ranged means there's no one to tank the insanely hard elite monsters.

I know a lot of people decry the online requirement, but its damn well implemented and makes it so easy to play and share and talk. Even if I'm playing alone I like being able to chat to my friends in other games. Find some epic loot? Just hop into their game real quick to show it off or share it. Its true there are occasional lag spikes, but out of some 50 hours of play, a lag spike only killed me once so I don't really care.

You also find significantly better gear with other players in the game, so its all the more reason to have at least 1 other person. I also found I could steamroll Nightmare solo, but adding in one other person actually makes it a challenge. I'm sure I'd get stomped in Hell alone since I just got there and my gear is for NM. But I like the game to be a challenge, and to have more monsters, all of which having another player facilities.

That post of yours seemed quite honest. It is exactly what we are supposed to expect from Diablo III and matches my own experience exactly. It is possible to steamroll right through the game in very little time but the shortcuts (like finding a very quick quest to do and then repeating it over and over or worse, getting a higher level character to carry you through that same repeatable quest or jumping forward to Act 4 with an Act 1 character or getting a whole heap of gear off the AH so pretend you got really lucky finding amazingly powerful gear) that people obviously resort to just kill the fun for me. Although I have "carried" some lower level players through parts I must admit.

[Cougar]

Quote

It's funny in the UK, how they put a small amount of supply into the retail channel, to be sold at £35-40. All these copies also included a 3 hour trial code. I know plenty people who got this code, tried the game for their 3 hours (around server break downs) and had enough fun that they've bought the game... Except that they did so at Blizzards price of £45 online, because everywhere is completely out of stock in retail.

Are you sure that price of 35-40 wasn't the retailer discounting the game? It sounds like you are being a bit too conspiratorial. Given D3's massive sales numbers, it's more likely Blizzard wasn't prepared for the demand (in more ways than one.)

In the US, almost no retailer sold the game with any preorder bonus or discount...Newegg sold it at a $10 discount for a few days, but I passed on it because I would have had to pay tax, and wait a day. I also didn't really want a disk.

I didn't mind paying $60, considering as a Blizzard title, it will be supported for many, many years. Also, Blizzard's games have been $60 since pre-activation days (Diablo II was $60), so if you factor in inflation, the price has come down.

[Wumpus]

cleansanchez, on 24 May 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Although I have "carried" some lower level players through parts I must admit.

I ran with some lower level friends (about 10 levels under me) a few times through Normal and Nightmare, but I wasn't really carrying them, just along for the ride and to have fun. I wasn't playing full on, just casting the occasional spell here and there. I did help zap some bosses however, but they aren't really hard anyway.

[DaveyJJ]

Confession time: I didn't buy. Really.

But on the weekend my (youngest) son asked me about getting it. I sat him down and explained all of the reasons I was against buying the game. No BS, just straight facts and discussion; that's how we've always treated our kids. He hummed and hawed and said he still wanted to buy it because he liked playing Diablo II and LoD so much. It's his style of game. I promised him Torchlight 2 when it comes out. He said he understood, but still wanted to buy D3.

Well ... We've always taught him to be responsible with his money. He saves a lot. Never spends more than about 25% of what he might have in hand. He has his own saved up money from allowances and gifts etc (quite a bit in fact) so after much squirming I agreed to drive him to the local big box and let him pick up a copy (there are limits you know, I still won't let him drive my car ... he's only 11 after all). He's happy and said thank you. I'm not playing and he's not online but if you ever do see a Demon Hunter named "Lucan" a few years from now, make sure to say hi.

I'm feel personally bad for actually supporting this whole mania about DRM and always online, but damn, I'm a great dad.

[Wumpus]

Bravo! In fact, you are a great dad. I think it was really cool that you explained all your views as to why you are not buying the game yourself. Though I suspect most kids (myself included some 15 years ago) are more concerned about having fun than taking a stand with your principles and beliefs as it relates to entertainment.

We talk a lot about the whole Diablo 3 online requirement in our latest podcast which should be out in the next few days. I think you'll find it interesting.

[The Animaster]

My Barbarian has reached a point where the monsters aren't very challenging anymore. For the past two nights I've gone in to play a session only to find it hard to stay awake as everything seems to be so ... routine.

Maybe I should play sitting up in a chair and not lying down? XD

But yeah... I think the monsters need to be more challenging. Those things that spit out little flies are nice... their flies are indestructible so you have to chase the damn thing down so it'd stop spitting out the flies (the flies do considerable HURT!) But there aren't many of these (good thing too -- they're annoying) and everything else just walks into my double axes.

[Tesseract]

Matt Diamond, on 23 May 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

From Blizzard's website: "Players who buy gold actively support spam, hacks, and keyloggers, and by doing so diminish the gameplay experience for everyone else." But of course people are doing so anyway. The market is telling Blizzard that some people want to pay money to augment their gaming experience, and the criminals are happy to comply.

Perhaps by making a legitimate way to buy and sell, Blizzard hopes to reduce the spam, hacks, and keyloggers. Not that those things will go away, but Blizzards market will hopefully be safer and take some of the air out of the criminal enterprises, much as the end of Prohibition was a blow against organized crime.

Here's the thing: being able to hack, mod and cheat at games is a good thing (provided it's consensual between everyone playing). If you hit a point where the difficulty ramps up too steeply for your skill level, or a section that requires a lot of grinding, a well-placed cheat code is just the thing to let you experience the rest of the content or avoid wasting your valuable time doing what feels like a chore rather than fun.

Being able to buy items for real money is just going to shift to diminishing the gameplay experience for the players who don't have as much real money to spend.

BTW, is it possible to pause in D3? That's one thing I hate about MMOs.

[UmarOMC1]

Tesseract, on 29 May 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

BTW, is it possible to pause in D3? That's one thing I hate about MMOs.

Solo, yes.

[Janichsan]

UmarOMC1, on 29 May 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Solo, yes.

...but as far as I know, you still get kicked from the game after 30 minutes of inactivity.

[Wumpus]

The Animaster, on 28 May 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

My Barbarian has reached a point where the monsters aren't very challenging anymore. For the past two nights I've gone in to play a session only to find it hard to stay awake as everything seems to be so ... routine.

Maybe I should play sitting up in a chair and not lying down? XD

But yeah... I think the monsters need to be more challenging. Those things that spit out little flies are nice... their flies are indestructible so you have to chase the damn thing down so it'd stop spitting out the flies (the flies do considerable HURT!) But there aren't many of these (good thing too -- they're annoying) and everything else just walks into my double axes.

What difficulty level are you playing on? Hell and Inferno and quite challenging, though Normal and Nightmare are not. Also adding players ramps up the difficulty, but maybe you are the solo type.

Janichsan, on 29 May 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

...but as far as I know, you still get kicked from the game after 30 minutes of inactivity.

I don't know the exact timeframe, but I have been disconnected before when pausing the game and tabbing out to do other stuff for awhile. It is annoying, though I've only had it happen once. Usually I schedule my D3 sessions, and if I need to pause for a few, its not longer than 5-10 minutes. But I still think it shouldn't disconnect you solo. If you're going away for awhile, make sure you hit a checkpoint first! (other complaint, some checkpoints are nearly an hour apart, fail.)

[Matt Diamond]

Tesseract, on 29 May 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Here's the thing: being able to hack, mod and cheat at games is a good thing (provided it's consensual between everyone playing). If you hit a point where the difficulty ramps up too steeply for your skill level, or a section that requires a lot of grinding, a well-placed cheat code is just the thing to let you experience the rest of the content or avoid wasting your valuable time doing what feels like a chore rather than fun.

Being able to buy items for real money is just going to shift to diminishing the gameplay experience for the players who don't have as much real money to spend.

If you'd argue that hacks and mods improve gameplay by allowing players to customize their experience (e.g. skip grinding or get unstuck) then I don't see anything wrong with the auction houses doing the same thing. (And there is a _virtual_ money version of the auction house.)

My point was merely that the black market is telling Blizzard that people want alternatives, for the same reasons that you gave for using cheat codes and victimless hacks. But the people who are running the black market aren't scrupulous about the "victimless" part. If Blizzard wants to offer an safer alternative for people's money, I think that's good.

(I have no evidence that reducing demand for the black market was a goal of Blizzard's. Maybe they just see dollar signs. But it's fun to speculate about, and I like the Prohibition parallel.)

[Tesseract]

Matt Diamond, on 29 May 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

If you'd argue that hacks and mods improve gameplay by allowing players to customize their experience (e.g. skip grinding or get unstuck) then I don't see anything wrong with the auction houses doing the same thing. (And there is a _virtual_ money version of the auction house.)

Virtual money or real seems like a choice between grind or "pay to win".

Quote

My point was merely that the black market is telling Blizzard that people want alternatives, for the same reasons that you gave for using cheat codes and victimless hacks. But the people who are running the black market aren't scrupulous about the "victimless" part. If Blizzard wants to offer an safer alternative for people's money, I think that's good.

And I agree with that point.

Quote

(I have no evidence that reducing demand for the black market was a goal of Blizzard's. Maybe they just see dollar signs. But it's fun to speculate about, and I like the Prohibition parallel.)

It's probably both, though I would guess the dollar signs were the bigger factor.

[UmarOMC1]

Janichsan, on 29 May 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

...but as far as I know, you still get kicked from the game after 30 minutes of inactivity.

Note to self: Whilst playing Diablo III don't;

1. Have a heart attack
2. Go food shopping
3. Bring a good book on bathroom breaks
4. Prepare Fugu
5. Volunteer to babysit
6. Watch American Dad
7. Do anything else
8. Think of Number 8
9. Peruse Break.com
10. Operate a train...