101 replies to this topic

[DaveyJJ]

Frost, on 06 June 2011 - 08:47 PM, said:

Fantastic.

Too bad when the hard drive goes, so will the restore partition. What happens if your disk is on the fritz and you want to boot from the Os install disc and run some tools on it? What if you need to reset something? What if you need to reinstall the OS and the Mac isn't fully functional and running Snow Leopard?

What if I have a bare drive because I just replaced the startup disk and I want to install a fresh OS and then migrate stuff over by putting the old drive in an external enclosure like we've been able to do since Panther.

Apple's solution in 1991: Pop in the OS install disc.

Apple's solution in 2011: Install Leopard, upgrade to Snow Leopard, get on the Mac App Store, redownload Lion. Hope you've got internet access available at the time.

Basically, if you can't even service your equipment if you're not in a 1st world country and hooked up to broadband 24/7, and sometimes not even then, then your way of doing things f'in sucks. I think Apple has gone full-on delusional.

Microsoft isn't looking so bad these days.

Install Lion once. $50 500GB external disk. Carbon Copy Cloner. Never be without a back up.

[Silver Samurai]

No DVD option for Lion? Well I'm out. I'm not going to eat up my bandwidth for this.
Shame too, some of Lions new stuff looked neat.

I sort of agree MS isn't looking to bad nowadays... Might be worth giving another look when it comes time to replacing my Mini...

[Tetsuya]

I also really, really, really dislike the move towards Lion being half iOS.  I like iOS on my iPad - because my iPad isnt a full-featured computer and isn't trying to be.  I like to organize my files. have backups (that aren't the property of Apple's iCloud and require me to have broadband), and do serious work on my computer.  I dont want my serious computer being turned into "just another device" that runs a choked mini-OS that is locked and closed like the iOS.  

I want a real computer.  

If Lion is an indicaton of where the next OS after Lion is going, it is increasingly likely that my next full-featured PC will be a Windows machine... and ill do my casual computer on my iPad.  

Reading this Apple (of course not, but) I dont want a gimpy desktop OS or one that tries to look like a tablet OS - i have a three thousand dollar workstation sitting under my desk and want a real OS to go with it - on a disc, so when my drive bellies up, i can reinstall it.

[Eric5h5]

Tetsuya, on 07 June 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

If Lion is an indicaton of where the next OS after Lion is going, it is increasingly likely that my next full-featured PC will be a Windows machine...

Have you seen what they're doing with Windows 8?  They're turning it into Windows Phone 7; the iOSification of Lion is mild by comparison.  It's like they're racing with Apple to see who can mobile-ize their OS the most, the soonest.

--Eric

[DaveyJJ]

How to burn a Lion boot disc ...

http://www.tuaw.com/...lion-boot-disc/

[Sargiel]

Bookmarked just in case

But to be honest I'm definitely going to wait a while on this and see what the gaming repercussions are RE compatibility.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

Eric5h5, on 07 June 2011 - 11:17 AM, said:

Have you seen what they're doing with Windows 8?  They're turning it into Windows Phone 7; the iOSification of Lion is mild by comparison.  It's like they're racing with Apple to see who can mobile-ize their OS the most, the soonest.

I agree with you and I hate that new UI for WIndows 8 and it's tablification.... it also strikes me as very dumbed down. The changes in Lion are a joy by comparison. Knowing them though the new UI is just a shell that runs on top of the real OS and the way it slides away to reveal the real desktop when you launch a "legacy" app is similar in execution to going from a full screen app the desktop in mission control. The new "UI" is probably just an HTML5 page running full screen as well. Anyway, windows 8 sure seems more extreme when it comes to trying to turn the whole OS into a tablet OS. It's also very similar to what they are doing with the xbox.

DaveyJJ, on 07 June 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

How to burn a Lion boot disc ...

http://www.tuaw.com/...lion-boot-disc/

Ah, beat me to it. They should also have a section for making a USB install drive from it which is a slightly different process where you restore to the usb drive from the disk image with disk utility.

[Mister Mumbles]

Ugh. Well, if this is where Apple is headed, no fraking thanks. Also the crap that Frost mentioned with what's happening with MobileMe - I also got the e-mail about the change to iCloud - certainly doesn't make me feel like an appreciated customer. More like a tool. Yeah, if this keeps up this will more than likely be my last Mac.

DaveyJJ, on 07 June 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

How to burn a Lion boot disc ...

http://www.tuaw.com/...lion-boot-disc/

Sounds also very "intuitive". I don't expect the average user will know this.

[Hansi]

There will still be DVDs and USB sticks, stop jumping to conclusions. Half this threat is filled with doom and gloom over things that have not been confirmed and make no sense. I know Apple can sometimes be twats but generally even those "bad" decisions are view favorably by a majority of the user base.

Tetsuya, on 07 June 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

I want a real computer.  

I agree, I'm not a fan of the iOS-ification. But they are additions. Nothing you can do today is going away.

Silver Samurai, on 07 June 2011 - 10:26 AM, said:

No DVD option for Lion? Well I'm out. I'm not going to eat up my bandwidth for this.
Shame too, some of Lions new stuff looked neat.

Really? Bandwidth? Might be time to look into other options for net connectivity unless you live really rural and are locked in.

You will still be able to get DVD copies of Lion.

Mister Mumbles, on 07 June 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

Sounds also very "intuitive". I don't expect the average user will know this.

Any decent developer can build a double clickable application to do this for you in a matter of minutes. One will sure be available on the Mac Store if not built into the System.

[Tetsuya]

Hansi, on 07 June 2011 - 12:54 PM, said:

There will still be DVDs and USB sticks, stop jumping to conclusions. Half this threat is filled with doom and gloom over things that have not been confirmed and make no sense. I know Apple can sometimes be twats but generally even those "bad" decisions are view favorably by a majority of the user base.

"available exclusively as a download from the App Store" is pretty conclusive - no DVDs - unless i have to make them myself, which is, again, just dumb.  Just burn the disc and put it in stores for 40 bucks.  Ill still buy it.  I guess a better point is:  what exactly do they *gain* by not putting it in retail space over what they save?  the paltry 10 cents a copy they spend on boxing and pressing the discs?

Quote

Really? Bandwidth? Might be time to look into other options for net connectivity unless you live really rural and are locked in.

You will still be able to get DVD copies of Lion.

Or live in Canada, where bandwidth isnt unlimited, ever.  Or the 65% of the United States that doesn't have broadband access.  Or have broadband access that is extremely limited (we live in Michigan, and less than 100 miles away from Detroit there are towns where your only option for "broadband" is a 3G card).  

Again.. "available exclusively from the App Store" - Apple stated, on stage at WWDC, that they are not releasing Lion DVDs.  Download only - and you have to link the computer you're installing it on to your iTunes account, also requiring internet access.

[Janichsan]

Tetsuya, on 07 June 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

I also really, really, really dislike the move towards Lion being half iOS. ...  I dont want my serious computer being turned into "just another device" that runs a choked mini-OS that is locked and closed like the iOS.  

I want a real computer.

Things might be worse than you think: take a very close look at Apple's OS X Lion promo page. There's a certain little word missing. Hint: it's the word missing in OS X Lion.

Tetsuya, on 07 June 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

Again.. "available exclusively from the App Store" - Apple stated, on stage at WWDC, that they are not releasing Lion DVDs.

Yep. It said "Only in the Mac App Store" in the corresponding Keynote slide. Around minute 35 in the Event.

[Frost]

DaveyJJ, on 07 June 2011 - 09:26 AM, said:

Install Lion once. $50 500GB external disk. Carbon Copy Cloner. Never be without a back up.

Still sucks compared to a proper CD/DVD.

Tetsuya, on 07 June 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

I also really, really, really dislike the move towards Lion being half iOS.  I like iOS on my iPad - because my iPad isnt a full-featured computer and isn't trying to be.  I like to organize my files. have backups (that aren't the property of Apple's iCloud and require me to have broadband), and do serious work on my computer.  I dont want my serious computer being turned into "just another device" that runs a choked mini-OS that is locked and closed like the iOS.  

I want a real computer.

Ditto. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see, but this is the first time since the original launch of OS X that I haven't been enthused about a new Mac OS. And in that case, it took them two years to come up with a serious successor to OS9, that being 10.2 Jaguar. I remember Cheetah being a whole bag of "WTF is this popsnizzle" followed by "well, at least it's less popsnizzle" with Puma, and finally a real OS again with Jaguar, or Jagwire if Steve Jobs is talking about it. Hoping they don't go off the iOSification deep end, and if they do, they backtrack with 10.8.

I love what Apple's been doing in the mobile area, but the direction the Macintosh seems to be taking nowadays... meh. Do not want.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

For me the "real" OS started with Panther Still I think it could be worse again take a look at what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8.

[Cougar]

Janichsan, on 07 June 2011 - 08:58 AM, said:

Obviously? I think not. I'm pretty sure that all Mac sold with Lion will only have one of those "Restore Partitions" on the built-in hard drives, but won't come with Install DVDs.

Yep. Someone over at MacRumors just said an apple engineer told him (Im assuming he's at WWDC) that this will happen in future macs.

Apple is done with physical media.

Hansi, on 07 June 2011 - 12:54 PM, said:

Any decent developer can build a double clickable application to do this for you in a matter of minutes. One will sure be available on the Mac Store if not built into the System.

It needs to be built in. Otherwise the people who need it won't know about it.

[Hansi]

Tetsuya, on 07 June 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

"available exclusively as a download from the App Store" is pretty conclusive - no DVDs - unless i have to make them myself

Apple has numerously before made such forceful statements and then backed off when someone tells Steve Jobs the rest of the world doesn't live in his fantasy reality. I assume they'll start selling them a short while after it hits the store or offer you to grab a copy from a Apple store provided you authenticate that you've bought it on App Store be it on optical media or just provide you with access to a download on the premises.

Tetsuya, on 07 June 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

Or live in Canada, where bandwidth isnt unlimited, ever.  Or the 65% of the United States that doesn't have broadband access.  Or have broadband access that is extremely limited (we live in Michigan, and less than 100 miles away from Detroit there are towns where your only option for "broadband" is a 3G card).

I used to live in Iceland which was the most oppressed developed country in the world when it came to bandwidth limits and I had a 5-10GB limits for years (heck today the basic package comes with 1GB!!!!). Canada is what? 25GB that's more than enough for the 4GB+a heafty load of browsing.

I highly doubt that 65% rural US is even a market Apple cares about.

I've been using 3G at my house for a week now since I just moved in and it's not a horrible as I expected (only 0.5MB instead of the advertised 5MB but still enough for browsing). I just checked the bandwidth sales in Iceland for 3G and the 7GB one is actually cheaper then the 1GB broadband I mentioned above.... (how they came to that pricing I'll never understand though).

[Hansi]

Heck while we're on it. Iceland doesn't have a bloody Mac Store. This is the number 2 or 3 in terms of % of market share for Apple products in consumer computers and smart phones but it a minority of the global market share in much the same way that rural US is a minority in the over all US market share for Apple.

Apple doesn't care about the small stuff, they are in the business of maximizing profit and that's best done by focusing on eating the cake and disregarding the crumbs until the forgone cost of collecting them up (time, resources etc) goes down to nil.

[Hansi]

Cougar, on 07 June 2011 - 02:54 PM, said:

It needs to be built in. Otherwise the people who need it won't know about it.

I think the most "Apple like" option is that the recovery partition will be come part of future macs and the old ones can create such partitions via a utility similar to Boot Camp Assistant. How they will stop users from wiping the partition I have no idea.

Edi: Built into the OS install: http://www.apple.com...internetrestore

[Smoke_Tetsu]

OK but as others have said what if the whole drive dies? All mac users should have a recovery option that's on a separate drive. I like how they started including USB thumb restore drives with the newer air's they should at the very least go with that for new Macs or offer them to purchase separate for those who want them and can't make their own. Unless they decide to put an embedded flash drive into the Mac that has the recovery partition that's seperate from the main drive.

[Hansi]

Smoke_Tetsu, on 07 June 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:

Unless they decide to put an embedded flash drive into the Mac that has the recovery partition that's seperate from the main drive.

Makes more sense and speaks to the point I made about preventing the user from wiping the partition

Edit: Plus Apple wants you to keep an external Time Machine backup. Preferably two.

[Frost]

Smoke_Tetsu, on 07 June 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:

OK but as others have said what if the whole drive dies? All mac users should have a recovery option that's on a separate drive. I like how they started including USB thumb restore drives with the newer air's they should at the very least go with that for new Macs or offer them to purchase separate for those who want them and can't make their own. Unless they decide to put an embedded flash drive into the Mac that has the recovery partition that's seperate from the main drive.

I can see it now. The iFlashback 60GB restoration drive, only $649, $799 in an external enclosure.