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#21 The Liberator

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:51 PM

View Postteflon, on 06 May 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

I just wish Apple would build the BD frameworks into OSX so that someone could release some software and I could use an external drive. Stupid Apple.
Yea, stupid Apple. You can convert a video file to Blu-ray in Compressor. you just cannot do anything else. ;)

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#22 teflon

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 05:09 AM

Well... There's always a way, but it's not convenient in the slightest.
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#23 Frost

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:48 PM

Apple's handling of Blu-ray is one of their most obnoxious moves in their history, IMO, and one area where Microsoft has really spanked them.

It was one thing to be in denial when there was a format war and BD's future was very hazy. It's another thing to keep pretending it doesn't exist when it's already been the new standard for over three years, is almost standard equipment on everything but budget PCs (in which it is now a relatively cheap option), has an installed base in the tens of millions in America alone, has a large market that's growing even faster than DVD was at this point in time, and usage of the format for a number of purposes has become widespread.

Instead Apple just keeps clinging to, "lol, the physical media is dead, and besides, why watch movies on BD-ROM when you can buy from the iTunes store instead and view them at 2/3 of the resolution with 1/10 the bitrate and heavily compressed stereo audio, and have them not be portable to half or more of your devices." Geez, at least Microsoft acknowledged they backed the wrong horse and got functionality built-in lickety-split within 6 months of their favored format dying. Apple still has their fingers jammed in their ears going "lalalalala, Blu-ray schmuray, people stopped buying that back in 2007 when 50 gigabit Japanese internet for $5/month became the worldwide standard."

Next thing you know it'll be 2017, we'll have HVD with 100 TB of storage and 5000x3000 resolution movies with uncompressed 7.1 audio that works on almost every consumer device and PC, and Apple will be saying it's a bag of hurt and we need to buy iTunes offerings instead because hey, they're 1080p now and the bitrate has almost reached that of 1990s DVDs. It's an embarrassment, and a pretty big knock against buying a Mac for users outside of casual territory.

And as far as Steve Jobs whining back in January yet again that the BDA is like the mafia, and Apple would have to pay, like $80,000 to put BD in Macs and with $8,000,000,000 in the bank they just can't afford that... KMA, Steve. If the BDA is the Mafia, Apple is turning into the Soviet Union. The Americans are all driving Mustangs, and we're driving frakking GAZ station wagons with 50 horsepower because we can't take the shame of admitting the capitalists have a better product.







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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#24 The Liberator

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 01:12 AM

View PostFrost, on 07 May 2011 - 11:48 PM, said:

...Whew, that felt good, I haven't delivered a serious tongue-lashing in over a month.
You sir made an excellent post! I am in complete agreement. It is time that Apple do something about it, as either physical media is going to die in the next two years, or they should have moved to using BD drives by then. As I have already said above, I think it is really quite very immature and bad of Apple to be showing off the video production apps, yet not have a (normal and easy) to burn to BR.

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#25 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 02:28 AM

I agree too and also think it's probably sadly a side effect of having someone like Steve Jobs at the helm. He seems to be the kind of person who backs one horse (the cloud in this scenario) and holds irrational views about stuff that doesn't fit his vision. So while on the one hand he's made some good decisions for Apple on the other hand he's making some bigoted decisions like not even offering blu-ray as an option when their products are heavily used in production. To be perfectly honest it's probably mostly due to Steve's influence that gives us this situation. Personally, videos aside I would still have use for those nice big blu-ray discs if I had a drive compatible with them.
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#26 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 03:51 AM

View PostFrost, on 07 May 2011 - 11:48 PM, said:

Apple's handling of Blu-ray is one of their most obnoxious moves in their history, IMO, and one area where Microsoft has really spanked them.

Blah, blah, blah, blaaaaah, blah, blah
Don't get me wrong, I also think that it is annoying that BD isn't available as a build to order, as I am making a Mac Mini 2011 media center, and have to install a drive my self..

But apart from video-prosumers and video professionals, I don't see a reason to have BD available on Mac. I personally don't use my optical drive more than once a year, max, and most people I know do the same.. I personally don't think that the market is there at all.
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#27 Frost

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 04:11 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 08 May 2011 - 03:51 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I also think that it is annoying that BD isn't available as a build to order, as I am making a Mac Mini 2011 media center, and have to install a drive my self..

But apart from video-prosumers and video professionals, I don't see a reason to have BD available on Mac. I personally don't use my optical drive more than once a year, max, and most people I know do the same.. I personally don't think that the market is there at all.
Which is all well and good; you're probably the customer who buys the Macbook Air and it suits him just fine, and that's cool. I use physical media pretty frequently though; I'm the guy who would splurge for the second BTO optical drive. I also move stuff around in the double digit GB sizes semi-regularly as well, and being able to burn those to BD-R would be fantastic.

I don't think that a majority or even a large minority has to use it to make it a viable option... hell, when Apple included "Superdrives" well ahead of the rest of the market, I bet most people weren't making full use of those at ALL except for a small minority. But I tell you what, this small minority burned several stacks of DVDs and read even more, and Apple's foresight really paid dividends. This is like the polar opposite of that; there's been a fantastic new format on the market for years with enormous capacity and allows video quality that can easily shine against DVD on their larger monitors, and Apple has its head in the sand pretending it's not there.

I tell you what, a crapload more people would make regular use of BD than make use of the QuadroFX cards and their like, but Apple's always sure to include those.

Microsoft's ads a while back mocking Apple for no Blu-ray were one of the few times they were right on the money.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#28 Cobra

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 06:50 AM

View PostFrost, on 07 May 2011 - 11:48 PM, said:

It's another thing to keep pretending it doesn't exist
Why not? I do.  :lol:

#29 teflon

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 08:27 AM

I know that if I had a BD drive in my MBP, I'd use it tons. My BD collection is rather extensive these days, as it is for plenty other people, and BD sales are still increasing.

One obstacle for Apple, though, is their never ending quest to knock a few mm of their MBPs. They're using slot loading drives, as well as going for the thinner, much less prevalent 9.5mm drives. Blu-ray are pretty damn rare in that form, so when Apple would want a few million of those every quarter, it's something they can't offer. Of course, Apple are pretty much the ultimate bullies of the supply chain, so that's not too big an obstacle for them.

Still, there's no excuse for Apple not to have built in the core software components to OSX for other software to hook into and play back BD.
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#30 The Liberator

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 04:23 PM

View Postteflon, on 08 May 2011 - 08:27 AM, said:

Still, there's no excuse for Apple not to have built in the core software components to OSX for other software to hook into and play back BD.
Yeah, they are being quite ridiculous about it all.

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#31 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 06:18 AM

View PostFrost, on 08 May 2011 - 04:11 AM, said:

Which is all well and good; you're probably the customer who buys the Macbook Air and it suits him just fine, and that's cool.
I would if it had a Radeon 6970M in it.. :P

I prefer top of the line machines, but I still never user physical discs anymore. Broadband is so cheap/fast here in Denmark, that I move everything around using that, and do backups the same way, on different machines.


No BD API in OSX is stupid though.
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#32 Sargiel

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:24 AM

I prefer getting boxed versions of games because of download overhead. I only have ADSL and it's not always the quickest so downloading GB's per game is a bit of a pain. Also I get more of a feeling that I've added something to my collection when I've some physical media for it. Although the Royal Edition of Two Worlds 2 almost gives too much :D

#33 the Battle Cat

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:53 AM

I've been foolishly hoping for a BD to store monthly physical backups.  As it is all my backups anymore are volatile because DVDs are too puny anymore.  I can only store my photos on DVD and that's getting to be a pain in the ass.
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#34 teflon

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:11 AM

You can do that regardless, tBC. Just get yourself a BD writer, internal or otherwise, and you can use Roxio Toast 11 Platinum Ginormo Titanium Mega-Pro (or whatever ridiculous naming scheme they're using now) to author discs. I don't think it even has to be from a specific mac re-seller or anything, you can just use any BD drive you like. LG seem to have some good ones.

The only thing missing from OSX is the software hooks to create the ever so precious HDCP chain of trust and delightful jams.
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#35 Tesseract

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 03:58 PM

View Postteflon, on 10 April 2011 - 01:52 AM, said:

Personally, I've not used a single bit of PPC code in a year, I'd imagine.
Amazing how Rosetta is so transparent that you don't even know you're using it, eh?  ;)

View Postmindnoise, on 05 May 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

Virtualization Engines is the future, IMHO.
As a commenter on an article elsewhere said, if PowerPC is dead and Apple thinks we should just "get over it", maybe they should "get over it" and remove the legal obstacles to virtualising their older x86 operating systems and emulating their older hardware.

Even just from a historical preservation point of view, it's a tragedy that as the hardware from those earlier eras slowly dies, less and less people are able to run the software. Almost certainly, someday the last functioning hardware will break, and all that history will be gone down the memory hole.

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 08 May 2011 - 03:51 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I also think that it is annoying that BD isn't available as a build to order, as I am making a Mac Mini 2011 media center, and have to install a drive my self..
I've thought about doing the same. If Apple offered a mini with BD (and a DVB tuner!  :pinkpony: ) it would pretty much be a perfect HTPC and I doubt I'd be able to resist buying one.

#36 teflon

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 04:09 PM

Heh  :glare:
It's rather unlikely for me to have used anything that isn't native to intel for the last year. I can't think of anything that isn't native, anyway.
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#37 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 04:25 PM

I don't know about anyone else but I can tell when something is running through rosetta... well I find out sooner or later as I end up looking at the properties of an app sooner or later. I have only one application that runs through rosetta and it's a blogging app.
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#38 the Battle Cat

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 07:28 PM

View Postteflon, on 09 May 2011 - 08:11 AM, said:

You can do that regardless, tBC. Just get yourself a BD writer, i

Holy moly!  50 bucks for a single 50GB disk!  Maybe I'll wait for it to become more mainstreamed.
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#39 Cobra

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 07:35 PM

Most of my apps are already Intel based, it's mainly my game collection that is going to take a nasty hit.

#40 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 06:05 AM

I can almost guarantee anyone who still needs use of Rosetta is in the absolute minority of Macintosh users and at any case will have a dual boot setup or better still an old G4/G5 sitting around. It's really a non issue, we're just kicking up a stink because we're a bunch of old fart mac 'gamers'. Remember Lion is likely to be digitally distributed, Apple are probably trying to shave of any spare byte they possibly can.


I feel pretty much the same in regards to optical media. I mean, BD has been different to DVD as the advent of high speed home networking, broadband and ADSL around the globe has allowed many of us to circumvent the need for DVD. The dramatic drop in price of televisions and home media solutions (including the playstation and Xbox 360) I would argue has also reduced the amount of people viewing content on optical media. Even on my playstation I rarely use optical media to view content, most of my peers are largely the same.

It's relatively obvious why Apple has been doing this:

  • largely irrelevant to majority of consumer PC users
  • Redirect customers to network based technologies, iTunes, iPhone, Apple TV, Airport, Airplay

In terms of pro users, they've always found a way. The indie film industry has largely moved online now. I think all we witness in this debate is a vocal minority. Don't get me wrong. I love Blu-Ray. Having all of the game's media on one disc, Inception in high definition, scratch proof bloody coating! It's obvious there is more than a 'bag of hurt' lying around Apple's feet on this but for frak sake, why is there no API? Must be some bad blood in the technical standard underworld.

Just my unsubstantiated opinion.

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