101 replies to this topic

[beb2]

Hello. It's not long to wait since Lion will be finally released. Now you can dl so called "Developer's Version" if you wish. So basically I am thinking is it worth to instantly update to Lion or have a few month delay. It does include some nice changes and new functions like Versions which is alike time machine but with file changes.
So I wish to ask and discuss will YOU upgrade to Lion after it is released or no?

[Cobra]

Not for a little while yet... there are some PPC Apps that I can't do without so I will have to wait on their developers to address this before I make the switch.

[Thain Esh Kelch]

Since Lion won't support PPC apps, I have to go over what old games I have in order to make that decision. Also, I would personally wait for 10.7.1 until I upgrade, just to make sure the worst bugs are out..

[Tetsuya]

can you not install Rosetta at all in Lion?

[the Battle Cat]

Tetsuya, on 09 April 2011 - 05:48 PM, said:

can you not install Rosetta at all in Lion?

Can ya huh?  Can ya huh?  Can ya can ya can ya huh?  Seems awful drastic to suddenly cut the cord on Rosetta without some sort of backup plan.

[devSin]

the Battle Cat, on 09 April 2011 - 06:27 PM, said:

Seems awful drastic to suddenly cut the cord on Rosetta without some sort of backup plan.

You secretly use Windows, don't you?

When has Apple ever cared about abandoning technology that no longer serves any forward-looking purpose? Frankly, I'd rather they spend their limited time working on something else than making sure Rosetta still runs (and having to support it), especially since Mac OS X already probably only gets leftover engineering time these days.

NDA-breakers have claimed that there is no Rosetta, not even optional (you simply get an alert that PPC applications aren't supported if you try to launch one). X11 is still around, but off-by-default optional.

[teflon]

Well, it's now 5 years since the first intel macs showed up, and by the time Lion is released, 5 years since the last PPC mac was sold by Apple. If Rosetta's causing problems in the OS, then I can understand them ditching it. I agree it's a shame that it's been removed though.

Personally, I've not used a single bit of PPC code in a year, I'd imagine. As it was when they dropped Classic, 99% of all those programs you use have got intel patches, probably even a couple new versions since that point.

Where does this all fall apart? Well, simply with games. Apple really doesn't give a rats arse about games, and they're always what suffers when Apple does things and releases a new OS. There's a single simple solution to it, and that's to dual boot your OS, or have a fairly powerful PPC machine running 10.5, so you can turn to that when you want to play PPC.
The final solution is that maybe Codeweavers or someone come out with a Rosetta replacement, or someone can splice Rosetta into 10.7.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

Funny you should mention codeweavers because another final solution is to migrate those games to the windows version in either codeweavers crossover or a wrapper like WINESKIN. I maintain that's more worth doing than to try to splice Rosetta into 10.7 both in performance and even stability.. especially for games like Star Trek Voyager Elite Force which are a buggy mess even on a PPC Machine on anything above Tiger. IMAO it's not worth clinging onto old PPC code like that so bad that you'd attempt to hack Rosetta onto 10.7.

[the Battle Cat]

teflon, on 10 April 2011 - 01:52 AM, said:

Apple really doesn't give a rats arse about games, and they're always what suffers when Apple does things and releases a new OS. There's a single simple solution to it, and that's to dual boot your OS, or have a fairly powerful PPC machine running 10.5, so you can turn to that when you want to play PPC.
The final solution is that maybe Codeweavers or someone come out with a Rosetta replacement, or someone can splice Rosetta into 10.7.

I bought my G5 with this in mind.  I wanted to play my legacy games.

Smoke_Tetsu, on 10 April 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

Funny you should mention codeweavers because another final solution is to migrate those games to the windows version in either codeweavers crossover or a wrapper like WINESKIN. I maintain that's more worth doing than to try to splice Rosetta into 10.7 both in performance and even stability.. especially for games like Star Trek Voyager Elite Force which are a buggy mess even on a PPC Machine on anything above Tiger. IMAO it's not worth clinging onto old PPC code like that so bad that you'd attempt to hack Rosetta onto 10.7.

That's an idea.  Legacy PC games are very cheap.

[mattw]

the Battle Cat, on 10 April 2011 - 09:36 AM, said:

I bought my G5 with this in mind.  I wanted to play my legacy games.


That's an idea.  Legacy PC games are very cheap.

This is exactly what I'm doing at the moment with Crossover Games & Wineskin as I get ready for Lion - I even got some of the OS 9 only titles I never got round to finishing back as well

[Sargiel]

I have to admit that Crossover has been great for the selected titles I've needed it for. It was definitely a good purchase and it'll only get better as WINE develops. Also unless you're collecting Mac hardware it's better to save the space and use Crossover than have a legacy machine left hanging around for just the odd game

[mindnoise]

Sargiel, on 10 April 2011 - 02:23 PM, said:

I have to admit that Crossover has been great for the selected titles I've needed it for. It was definitely a good purchase and it'll only get better as WINE develops. Also unless you're collecting Mac hardware it's better to save the space and use Crossover than have a legacy machine left hanging around for just the odd game

I am with this 100%
I hate to say it but I effectively abandoned Mac Games with Bootcamp. If a game runs on Mac these days I take it happily as a cross platform bonus! But Bootcamp, CrossOver & Parallels are now filling my gaming needs.
Being f****ed by Apple twice this way is enough to learn my lesson and I can play Deus Ex all I want.

Virtualization Engines is the future, IMHO.

And to contribute to the Topic, I try to avoid Lion as long as possible,
which is until Pro Tools demands it, maybe in a year.

[Mister Mumbles]

Unless Lion will come with some sort of essential feature (most probably gaming-related) - of which I haven't heard a peep - I'm going to skip this OS X iteration altogether. Now if they added something like blu-ray playback capability I might be interested, but that seems to be quite unlikely at this point.

[The Liberator]

Mister Mumbles, on 05 May 2011 - 11:19 AM, said:

…Now if they added something like blu-ray playback capability I might be interested, but that seems to be quite unlikely at this point.

…Which I think does not sound like the smartest idea. At least in the next couple of years I do not think it will be. Blu-ray is clearly here to stay, and as time goes by, the need for a media player to read a blu-ray disc will just be going up.

That is at least what I think.

Liberator.

[Mister Mumbles]

There has been no mention of such a feature for Lion, so I suspect we won't see anything like that for 10.7. My fear is that Apple will completely ignore it - I wouldn't even care if they didn't have Macs with internal bluray drives as long as I could plug in an external one - while pushing it's own digital download/rental agenda, despite being a supporter of said blu-ray format. I somehow have a feeling they primarily did that to kill off another one of MS's proprietary formats, which is a good thing in a way.

I'd like to say 'Time will tell,' but at this point there's been plenty of time for that already.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

Blu-ray is a Microsoft proprietary format that Apple is trying to kill off? Blu-ray doesn't even use microsoft codecs. If anything hddvd was more up Microsoft's alley... you know.. the other (failed) HD disc format? Microsoft was backing that format. Blu-ray is more of a Sony format. Microsoft isn't even on the blu-ray board... Apple is though ironically. I don't know where you got the idea that by not including blu-ray they are trying to kill off a proprietary microsoft format... especially when Microsoft didn't have anything to do with it.

If anything Apple wants to kill off optical discs and physical media... and the itunes store, app stores and cloud stuff probably have more to do with why than anything else.

[Thain Esh Kelch]

"The "Blu-ray Disc founder group" was started on May 20, 2002 by MIT and nine leading electronic companies: Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung.".

[teflon]

He means that Apple joined the Blu-ray Disc group in order to buddy up with MS' opponents over HD-DVD. The enemy of my enemy is my friend thinking.

That's what Mumble um.... mumbled, so you didn't read it clearly. Cutting it down to the barest form he said:

"My fear is that Apple will completely ignore [Blu-Ray] ... despite being a supporter of said blu-ray format. I somehow have a feeling they primarily [supported BD] to kill off another one of MS's proprietary formats."

[Smoke_Tetsu]

Although to be technical Microsoft was only a supporter (as opposed to owner) of HDDVD backing it (including making an external HDDVD drive for the 360) and contributing an optional codec. But yeah that seems like the likely scenario.... and from the public perception it was mostly like Microsoft vs Sony with HDDVD and Blu-ray. Either way I still think at this point Apple is more against physical media in general

[teflon]

Yeah, it was owned by Toshiba, primarily, but MS pitched their oar in a huge amount, creating the VC-1 codec branch from it's main WMV profiles, to compete with the AVC branch of MPEG-4 H.264 that Sony etc. were backing. In the end both VC-1 and AVC were used on both HDDVD and BD formats.
MS also did a lot of work for the interactive features of HDDVD creating HDi which was eventually a major sticking point in the last ditch attempts to avoid the format battle, and could have been the tipping point.

So MS had a bigger hand in things than you suggest. However, they were definitely not all that fussed by the format, they just wanted to make Sony's life difficult, and grab some royalties in the process. So they had to back Toshiba's format, which meant that Apple's reaction was only ever going to be siding with Sony and BD. Since then MS and Apple have both heavily pushed video downloads.

I just wish Apple would build the BD frameworks into OSX so that someone could release some software and I could use an external drive. Stupid Apple.