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Assassins Creed 2 woeful performance


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#21 Wumpus

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:07 AM

I got the official word on Cider or not. Its NOT Cider. From the VP of TransGaming (email):

"Ubi internal as best we know. Was not TransGaming tech as we were not involved."

That's nice to know. Hopefully they do a native port for Splinter Cell: Conviction and any future games.
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#22 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:30 AM

I hope they do Brotherhood as well I'm looking forward to it. It's been delayed until 2011 for PC though... maybe so they can release it simultaneous with Mac. ;) :unsure:
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Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#23 Greg Grant

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 04:57 AM

Assassin's Creed puts murder on my Mac Pro. I have the older 2.8 Ghz octocore, 8800 GT and 14 Gigs of ram, and the thing chugs along. I can't run it at 2560 x 1600. I'm running max detail, 1600 x 1000, medium shadows, no subsampling and its playable but slows down.

I need to try this game out on the Windows side, but I'm lazy.
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#24 J'nathus

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 02:08 AM

View PostGreg Gant, on 30 January 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

Assassin's Creed puts murder on my Mac Pro. I have the older 2.8 Ghz octocore, 8800 GT and 14 Gigs of ram, and the thing chugs along. I can't run it at 2560 x 1600. I'm running max detail, 1600 x 1000, medium shadows, no subsampling and its playable but slows down.

I need to try this game out on the Windows side, but I'm lazy.

The 8800 GT is an AWESOME card and it held me for a VERY long time, but it's not enough muscle for 2560x1600.  My PC with a GTX 460 1GB hardly has the muscle to maintain 60 FPS, and AC2 shows the hallmarks of a high degree of lack of optimization - UNLESS that is, you play it on the X-Box 360. :)  (which I ALSO do).

Man, I wish I could afford a 30" - but then again, I'm sort of glad I can't...  I'd be trying to get everything running at that stratospheric resolution and I'd be bummed at how wimpy my system would stack up against that. :)

#25 Jan

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 11:36 AM

Assasins Creed 2 runs great on my iMac i5. Settings: 1.920 x 1.080, everything maxed out, 2 x AA.
Seems like a solid native port.
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#26 devSin

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 06:02 PM

View PostWumpus, on 16 December 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

I got the official word on Cider or not. Its NOT Cider. From the VP of TransGaming (email):
Uh, so who's responsible for it, then? Ubi couldn't have just woken up one day and discovered they had a Mac engineer or two laying around who could port the game from scratch...

I'd be heartily amused if they found a way to use Wine/CrossOver stuff and cut TransGaming completely out of the process.

#27 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 06:48 PM

Neither WINE nor crossover have multichannel sound support but Assassin's Creed on OS X does. Someone has asked crossover if they can support it and they flat out said WINE's sound driver doesn't support it and it's very low priority as well so it wont happen anytime soon. People say it's not even supported in LInux. Cider is a branch of WINE and it too doesn't support it so it can't be Cider. Transgaming said the port was done in house at ubisoft and it seems to me that's the truth. There's more evidence that supports that than there is that it's using some kind of magical version of WINE that has better sound support (amongst other things) than everyone else has including many native ports. Many other native ports have buggier implementations.

At the end of the day however most direct3D games get at least the graphics portion wrapped by a library that wraps it to OpenGL on the Mac quite a few of the native games ported to the Mac have that. So they at the very least probably did that. There are companies that would gladly help out like Valve has been offering their Direct3D compatible OpenGL interface they used in the Mac Source engine to other companies to help expedite their ports. The graphics part is usually the heaviest part of the game as well and that sort of wrapping library can have the same kind of characteristics as WINE's implementation.

This also could have been an offshoot from their iOS efforts to dip their toes in the water for Mac gaming so to speak. They probably have Mac dev stations with XCode and programers because of that. I'm not saying without a doubt that's what happened but it could have. Like I said before it's been said it was done in house and it has support for things no other wrapped game has (and few native games as well) and the package itself has no WINE or windows libraries or files whatsoever in fact it has native versions of the libraries that you can find like bink. They wouldn't mix in native versions of things like that into a wrapped port as the wrapped port would simply wrap the windows versions of those libraries.
--Tetsuo

Alex Delarg, A Clockwork Orange said:

It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.

the Battle Cat said:

Slower and faster? I'm sorry to hear such good news?

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#28 Jan

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 03:47 AM

Cider was fine for older Ubisoft titles like Rayman Raving Rabbids or PoP: The Two Thrones. But Prince of Persia (2008) is the worst cider port I've played so far and I really regret I bought it. Maybe Ubi learned its lesson and want to support the Mac natively from now on. All major gaming companies have a few Xcode developers for iOS projects anyway, why not use them for OS X as well?
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#29 Brad Oliver

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 08:11 PM

View PostHansi, on 22 October 2010 - 05:45 PM, said:

This isn't native at all. This is just Cider package with everything obscured so people aren't able to rip off the Cider version to use for other games.

Old reply, I know, but I looked at this is pretty close detail and I see no suggestion or hint of Cider at all. This looks like a native port to me. There are even some (clumsy) details left in the binary from their Mac developer, including the various paths to the source files on his hard drive.

View PostUmarOMC1, on 25 November 2010 - 01:12 AM, said:

It can't be the hardware so much [as] it is the software- the drivers to be specific. Apple hasn't even got OpenGL 3.x compliance across the board (despite being a Khronos Group Promoter, aka "Board of Director", and OpenGL 4.1 now having been introduced!) much less anything akin to Direct X after their short-lived GameSprockets venture. If Apple went full force and delivered an OpenGL-dependent (because RAVE is dead and they sure as heck won't introduce an OpenGL rival or license Direct X) GameSprockets that is at least equivalent to Direct X 9 in feature set we'd see even more games ported because I'm sure they'd include it (‹berGameSprockets libs) with XCode! C'est la vie. Could you imagine Direct X 11-equivalent drivers for OS X? Whoa!


Wut? GL in 10.6 is at least DX9-level, with many bits that are DX10/11-level. What I haven't seen, however, are too many PC games that use DX10/11.



View PostJan, on 01 February 2011 - 03:47 AM, said:

Cider was fine for older Ubisoft titles like Rayman Raving Rabbids or PoP: The Two Thrones. But Prince of Persia (2008) is the worst cider port I've played so far and I really regret I bought it. Maybe Ubi learned its lesson and want to support the Mac natively from now on. All major gaming companies have a few Xcode developers for iOS projects anyway, why not use them for OS X as well?

Your other point aside, there's a huge gulf between iOS's OpenGL ES support and what is necessary for a DX9-quality game in terms of both performance tuning and feature utilization.
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#30 devSin

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 10:01 PM

Didn't you know? You can't mention "Mac" and "game" in the same sentence these days without evoking some tired diatribe about Apple's OpenGL.

Things will be much better once Apple claims to support full 3.x! (Except, of course, that it won't be, and then the target will mysteriously change to OpenGL 4--things will really be better then, if only Apple cared about its customers!).

#31 Brad Oliver

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 09:32 AM

View PostdevSin, on 06 February 2011 - 10:01 PM, said:

Didn't you know? You can't mention "Mac" and "game" in the same sentence these days without evoking some tired diatribe about Apple's OpenGL.

Things will be much better once Apple claims to support full 3.x! (Except, of course, that it won't be, and then the target will mysteriously change to OpenGL 4--things will really be better then, if only Apple cared about its customers!).


Yes, this is amusingly true given that pretty much all of GL 3 is currently in Apple's implementation. ;)
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#32 ltcommander.data

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 10:35 AM

View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on 31 January 2011 - 06:48 PM, said:

This also could have been an offshoot from their iOS efforts to dip their toes in the water for Mac gaming so to speak. They probably have Mac dev stations with XCode and programers because of that. I'm not saying without a doubt that's what happened but it could have. Like I said before it's been said it was done in house and it has support for things no other wrapped game has (and few native games as well) and the package itself has no WINE or windows libraries or files whatsoever in fact it has native versions of the libraries that you can find like bink. They wouldn't mix in native versions of things like that into a wrapped port as the wrapped port would simply wrap the windows versions of those libraries.
Interestingly, I believe it was Pocketgamer that recently reported that Ubisoft was pulling back on iOS game development due to the poor reception of their own games and will be letting Gameloft handle things going forward. This must be the first case of a major game developer giving up iOS development for Mac development. Not that I'm complaining.

View PostBrad Oliver, on 06 February 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

Wut? GL in 10.6 is at least DX9-level, with many bits that are DX10/11-level. What I haven't seen, however, are too many PC games that use DX10/11.
The first major DX10/DX11 only game looks to be Battlefield 3 which uses Frostbite 2.0 and was designed for DX11 and presumably supports DX10 GPUs through feature levels. Seeing more than 21% of DX10/DX11 GPU owners actually use Windows XP according to the latest Steam survey, which since Windows XP isn't commonly available in modern computers anymore probably consists of their targeted audience of hardware, tech-literate gamers who could build these custom configurations, it'll be interesting to see whether this impacts DICE's sales or whether this causes the users to finally switch over to Windows 7.

View PostdevSin, on 06 February 2011 - 10:01 PM, said:

Didn't you know? You can't mention "Mac" and "game" in the same sentence these days without evoking some tired diatribe about Apple's OpenGL.

Things will be much better once Apple claims to support full 3.x! (Except, of course, that it won't be, and then the target will mysteriously change to OpenGL 4--things will really be better then, if only Apple cared about its customers!).
I'll be very interested to see how people will react if Lion does not ship with OpenCL 4 support and instead advertises full OpenGL 3.0 support like it's a significant game-changing feature. Pardon the pun. I know I wouldn't be pleased, although there's not much I can do about it.

#33 Janichsan

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 10:37 AM

View PostBrad Oliver, on 07 February 2011 - 09:32 AM, said:

Yes, this is amusingly true given that pretty much all of GL 3 is currently in Apple's implementation. ;)
Hmmm.... does it still say "Aspyr Media" beneath your avatar or does it again?  :unsure:

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#34 Brad Oliver

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 10:53 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 07 February 2011 - 10:37 AM, said:

Hmmm.... does it still say "Aspyr Media" beneath your avatar or does it again?  :unsure:

Hah, I noticed that too. It's not something I control. Maybe battlecat will come to my rescue and Feral me up, although honestly I'd rather not give the impression of official blabbermouth for anyone. ;)
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#35 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 10:56 AM

He'll probably change it into "Electronic Arts", just for the laughs.
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#36 devSin

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:00 AM

View Postltcommander.data, on 07 February 2011 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'll be very interested to see how people will react if Lion does not ship with OpenCL 4 support and instead advertises full OpenGL 3.0 support like it's a significant game-changing feature. Pardon the pun. I know I wouldn't be pleased, although there's not much I can do about it.
I don't think it will even get a single mention (in fact, I can't remember Apple ever advertising OpenGL version support for anything).

Anyway, I get the feeling that Apple's (probably frighteningly small) team decided at some point to ignore version parity and spend their (certainly limited) time working on the features that would be most likely to be used. So Lion would still have some OpenGL Frankenversion, animated from the mixed parts of every version of the standard.

And that means another few years of misguided comments about how games would be running so fast for us if only Apple could claim full conformity to the favorite version of the day.

#37 Brad Oliver

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:05 AM

View Postltcommander.data, on 07 February 2011 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'll be very interested to see how people will react if Lion does not ship with OpenCL 4 support and instead advertises full OpenGL 3.0 support like it's a significant game-changing feature. Pardon the pun. I know I wouldn't be pleased, although there's not much I can do about it.


Apple will have to continue shipping a GL 2 implementation for a long time so as to not break every GL game made for OS X. That means any introduction of GL 3 or 4 will mean a new framework, which is engineering intensive for both them and us as it'll mean 2 separate codepaths.

I have enough difficulty debugging OpenGL on OS X with OpenGL Profiler right now (e.g inspecting a cubemap texture will crash your app instantly). I have fears that GL 4 will break things even more. Conversely, if they introduced GL 4 and a GL profiler that worked awesome (say, like PIX for Direct3D), I'd drop GL 2 so fast it would disrupt the Hadron collider.
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#38 Eric5h5

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 12:36 PM

View PostBrad Oliver, on 07 February 2011 - 10:53 AM, said:

although honestly I'd rather not give the impression of official blabbermouth for anyone. ;)

How's that?

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#39 Brad Oliver

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 01:29 PM

View PostEric5h5, on 07 February 2011 - 12:36 PM, said:

How's that?

It ties the room together, man. Posted Image
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#40 the Battle Cat

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 02:12 PM

It should have said "Awesome Klingon Blabbermouth Developer Dude Guy"
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