23 replies to this topic

[motorsep]

As a game developer I would like to know from the source (aka Mac gamers) what format is preferable for downloadable games.
Our game, Steel Storm ( http://www.steel-storm.com ), runs on Mac natively, but I don't have Mac in my possession to create .dmg archives. We have been using a person with Mac to create .dmg files for us, but most of the time, he is not available.
So, my question is if it's ok to deliver our game in a form of .zip archive? Can Mac gamers live with it or .dmg is essential for Mac gamers?
Thank you.

[The Liberator]

motorsep, on 10 October 2010 - 03:21 PM, said:

As a game developer I would like to know from the source (aka Mac gamers) what format is preferable for downloadable games.
Our game, Steel Storm ( http://www.steel-storm.com ), runs on Mac natively, but I don't have Mac in my possession to create .dmg archives. We have been using a person with Mac to create .dmg files for us, but most of the time, he is not available.
So, my question is if it's ok to deliver our game in a form of .zip archive? Can Mac gamers live with it or .dmg is essential for Mac gamers?
Thank you.

I like .dmgs more, but that is just me. Then again, I also liek it when that .dmg has been compressed too.

Liberator.

[Sneaky Snake]

The Liberator said:

I like .dmgs more, but that is just me. Then again, I also liek it when that .dmg has been compressed too.

Liberator.

I would like .dmg way more but I guess I could live with .zip

[the Battle Cat]

A compressed .dmg file is much preferred over a .zip file but OSX can easily unzip .zip files.

[Hansi]

The only real reason to go with a dmg is that one average it offers better compression and looks prettier (provided you set up backgrounds etc to the disk image).

With that in mind I don't think anyone will really mind if you provide a zip instead. But what kind of format is it distributed as if you can compile it on a non Mac and just use a Mac to set up the disk image? JAVA I'd assume. but even then there might be permission issues with going from Windowns based zip to Mac.

[Frigidman]

Zips are pretty ugly and unfriendly to the casual gamer. Many have a hard time trying to figure out a dmg, when it already pops open a window with a pretty kindergarten-grade message of "Drag this, to that". Zips just add insult to the process. As well, if its a big game that must be unzipped, then installed, you are asking people to waste 3x the disk space, while a dmg can allow install from the dmg itself (and many cases you can even run the game from the dmg... only properly coded games though). Finally, games that look of quality, come in dmg packages. A zip just looks like some junk that was jambed together and thrown on the web for anyone to get.

[motorsep]

Hansi, on 10 October 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

The only real reason to go with a dmg is that one average it offers better compression and looks prettier (provided you set up backgrounds etc to the disk image).

With that in mind I don't think anyone will really mind if you provide a zip instead. But what kind of format is it distributed as if you can compile it on a non Mac and just use a Mac to set up the disk image? JAVA I'd assume. but even then there might be permission issues with going from Windowns based zip to Mac.

No, I don't compile Mac builds.. Someone else does. I just get binaries and package it with the game.

[Hansi]

motorsep, on 10 October 2010 - 08:30 PM, said:

No, I don't compile Mac builds.. Someone else does. I just get binaries and package it with the game.

Could said person not also do the packaging? Repetitive tasks like this are quite easily scripted (Well icon positioning on the DMG needs to be controlled manually first and then the .DS_Store copied over each time).

[Janichsan]

Besides, here's what Apple says on this topic. Definitely in favour of .dmgs.

[Thain Esh Kelch]

I personally prefer dmgs.. Probably because I think that zip files are a windows thing. But in practice, it means no difference to me.

For normal users though, some of them have trouble understanding the concept of DMG files, but then again, they surely will see them often, so they have to learn.

One thing though; Safari mounts and deletes the DMG files automatically, which I find quite smart. Does it do the same thing for ZIP files?

[Hansi]

Thain Esh Kelch, on 11 October 2010 - 05:15 AM, said:

One thing though; Safari mounts and deletes the DMG files automatically, which I find quite smart. Does it do the same thing for ZIP files?

This is a setting in Safari not universal.

[Janichsan]

Thain Esh Kelch, on 11 October 2010 - 05:15 AM, said:

One thing though; Safari mounts and deletes the DMG files automatically, which I find quite smart. Does it do the same thing for ZIP files?

Hansi, on 11 October 2010 - 07:28 AM, said:

This is a setting in Safari not universal.

Actually, that depends on the DMG. These are those "internet enabled disk-images" mentioned here.

[Bernie]

Frigidman, on 10 October 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

Zips are pretty ugly and unfriendly to the casual gamer. Many have a hard time trying to figure out a dmg, when it already pops open a window with a pretty kindergarten-grade message of "Drag this, to that". Zips just add insult to the process. As well, if its a big game that must be unzipped, then installed, you are asking people to waste 3x the disk space, while a dmg can allow install from the dmg itself (and many cases you can even run the game from the dmg... only properly coded games though). Finally, games that look of quality, come in dmg packages. A zip just looks like some junk that was jambed together and thrown on the web for anyone to get.

Ditto.

motorsep, do DMGs and do them right. Then you'll have a much better response from the Mac crowd.

[Cougar]

They both suck, though I prefer zip. You can just double-click and run without putting the app anywhere manually. OS X needs a better way of downloading/installing apps. The Mac App store will be nice for this reason, but Apple should also do something for apps downloaded elsewhere.

One thing that could help is if developers add code that detects if the App is running outside the App folder, and if so, offer to move it to that folder. The Hit List is the only app that I know that does this, though. The programmer has a nice writeup of why he did this.

John Gruber has an excellent article on this titled, How should Mac Apps Be Distributed? Spoiler: He prefers Zips.

Quote

What I like best is the resurgent trend of delivering Mac apps as simple .zip archives (a technique that harkens back a decade to when Mac apps were typically delivered as StuffIt archives). Download the .zip file, double-click, and there’s the app. Just like with disk images, what users should do then is move the app to their Applications folder. But — and this is the advantage of using a zip archive over a disk image — they don’t have to. Users can just launch the app right from their Downloads folder, and it’ll work just fine. They can drag it to their Dock, and it’ll work just fine. It’s not tidy, but there’s no confusing abstraction like a virtual disk volume that will disappear after they log out for reasons they don’t understand.

[Mister Mumbles]

I suppose that's why a good portion of Mac devs have started including the easy move of files through shortcuts to one's applications folder in disk images.

I still see the previously mentioned method as more of a 'dimwits of the world' approach though. Using a computer a person will have to learn a few things, OS X or otherwise. If something as simple as a disk image baffles them then... well, good luck with the rest of it.

[Jude]

I much prefer zip files.  I have come across too many dmg files lately that will not mount under OS X 10.3.9 or older ones that will not mount under OS X 10.6.4.  
Jude

[Cougar]

Pegasus, on 06 November 2010 - 09:13 PM, said:

I still see the previously mentioned method as more of a 'dimwits of the world' approach though. Using a computer a person will have to learn a few things, OS X or otherwise. If something as simple as a disk image baffles them then... well, good luck with the rest of it.

But if there's an easier, more elegant solution, than why not use it? DMGs are cumbersome, period.

[Eric5h5]

I usually prefer .dmgs; in the past I've been annoyed by careless .zip files which result in tons of files/folders which I then have to clean up.  Also, I can try stuff in .dmgs (unless it's a read-only .dmg and the app needs to write data), and if it's not something I'm interested in keeping at that particular time, then I just eject the .dmg and don't need to do anything else.  They just seem neater/more organized overall.  On a purely superficial level, a nicely packaged .dmg presents a professional, "this is a real thing" vibe, while a .zip file kinda says "here's a cheap piece o' junk that I couldn't be bothered to spend any time on".  However, small simple things don't need the overhead of .dmgs and are fine as .zip files.

Looking at the last 30 games and apps I downloaded, 29/30 are .dmgs.  Updates tend to be zipped though.


--Eric

[Bernie]

Cougar, on 06 November 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

DMGs are cumbersome, period.

Sorry, but that period is for you, not for me. Also, thanks for the links in your earlier post; it was interesting and useful reading.

I've got to the point where my opinion is that the average computer user should not deal with the file system at all. That is based on the last 5 years of dealing with the computer problems of average people. People understand documents, not files. Files are containers for documents; folders/directories are containers for files and other folders; disks/volumes are containers for folders. Most people understand none of that. There is a huge difference between a local drive and a network drive. There is a huge difference between a drive and an email. I keep telling people at work to save files, especially large ones, from their emails to their hard disk and open the them from their hard disk. But, people keep opening them in their emails; and when they are large, they take a long time to open. Then, either I get called about the "problem" or they assume that their computer is frozen and do something drastic or they try opening the file again, which results in it being open twice. (FYI: We use GroupWise at work.) And I love when I get the call about lost changes because they edited a read-only copy opened directly from an email and did not save a copy to their hard disk.

I could go on and on and on. So, I agree that there should be a better way of handling installations than having the user deal with files.

[ikir]

Better to use DMG but add also the check for Application folder. Some newbie Mac users runs the app from DMG itself slowing down loading. Most app nowdays tell you to drag to application folder or a subfolder of it if you run from DMG itself.