31 replies to this topic

[Janichsan]

Apple just released new iMacs. I don't see huge changes (a little speed bump in the CPUs) apart from the new GPUs: either a ATI HD 4670 (256 MB VRAM) or a ATI HD 5670 (512 MB) in the 21.5" models and a ATI HD 5750 (1 GB) in the top-range 27" iMac.

Also new: the "Magic Trackpad", which is the rumoured Bluetooth touchpad for desktop Macs.

Not new: the Mac Pro. (See below)

[teflon]

You fail, the Mac Pro has a speed bump too.

[Janichsan]

teflon, on 27 July 2010 - 07:23 AM, said:

You fail, the Mac Pro has a speed bump too.

How sneaky. That was neither announced on Apple's frontpage nor in the Apple Store an hour ago.

EDIT: Okay, I see the Mac Pro will not be available before August.

I also discovered a new 27" Cinema Display, also not yet available.

[teflon]

They didn't want you to notice...  

Not that big a difference, really. Looks like the quad and octo core models are basically identical (slight variance with the CPU clocks?) whilst the 6 and 12 cores have got a faster FSB, and newer architecture (might just be a die shrink, I'm not sure).
So basically, if you're buying, I'd say to get the 6 core over the 8 core...

[The Liberator]

If only this update came thirty days ago… if only.

It is nice that finally after three (or more?) years, the iMac has a GPU with 1GB of VRAM. I also (personally; mind you) do not understand the trackpad. I just do NOT get it. What is the point of having it. I thought trackpads were only for laptops so it would save space, rather than needing a mouse to carry around too. Now you can have a trackpad with a desktop computer?

WTF MATE¿

Liberator.

[teflon]

Yeah, when I saw this, I thought "tough break Liberator.." to myself.

The Trackpad is just an alternative. It supports all these gestures, which many people like, and they do simplify certain things within certain apps...

Also, some people can't use a traditional mouse, because they have issues with their hands. So they'll use trackballs and other crazy contraptions. Having a trackpad like this would give them another option...

So it does have its uses, but it's definitely not for everyone.

[Thain Esh Kelch]

Personally I could see myself getting a trackpad. I love having 3/4 finger swipes.

Regarding the iMac, I'm again disappointed by the choice of graphic cards. No high end? The only reason I could see for this is temperature problems in that encasing..

[bobbob]

Thain Esh Kelch, on 27 July 2010 - 12:14 PM, said:

The only reason I could see for this is temperature problems in that encasing..

... but the GTX 460 runs cooler than the 5670 anyways. It's higher-end, at least.

[devSin]

Is the 5750 (1GB) really that bad? I'm sure it's a mobile part, but it seems to be a decent step up for the ginormous display (maybe even to power OS X StarCraft II at Medium graphics settings, watch out!!!), no?

It seems like it would be enough to get you by until you can scape together the US $10K to get a real Mac...

[Janichsan]

bobbob, on 27 July 2010 - 12:47 PM, said:

... but the GTX 460 runs cooler than the 5670 anyways. It's higher-end, at least.

I have the impression that Apple once more takes the swing from Nvidia to ATI. I wouldn't be surprised when all upcoming Macs all have ATI GPUs. Possibly Nvidia is out again, so the GTX460 wasn't an option. Just speculation, though.

[teflon]

Apple have something of a love hate relationship with NV right now, much as they do with intel.

On the laptop side of things, NV have shown commitment to Apple with developing custom chipsets for them to use for the last few years, but their parts are also rather heavy on the discrete side of things, leaving Apple a little crippled. They have to use NV to get the good integrated stuff, which means they also have to use NV the rest of the time for the MBPs.

All of which is, naturally, intels fault for a) having such poopy integrated graphics, b) putting those graphics on the CPU die along with the Memory Controller, and c) throwing a hissy fit at NV for doing stuff better than they could themselves...

But Apple cant just jump ship to AMD, because intel's CPU are cooler and faster in laptops in particular...

So they're somewhat trapped. But at least with the iMac and MP, they can offer some ATI parts, which have been, to my mind, a shade better than their NV equivalents for a while now.

[Sneaky Snake]

The 5750 is a relatively high end card. It runs pretty much every maxed (in windows at least).

Also, no one seems to have noticed that the Mac Pro also got a GPU bump: 5770 is standard, with the option for the 5870. Firetruck yes!

5770 vs 5750

Sum of FPS for 5750 - what you can see here is that the 5750 beats the 4870, so again, I would say that its verging into high range. 5670 is mid range.

[The Liberator]

teflon, on 27 July 2010 - 09:18 AM, said:

Yeah, when I saw this, I thought "tough break Liberator.." to myself.

The Trackpad is just an alternative. It supports all these gestures, which many people like, and they do simplify certain things within certain apps...

Also, some people can't use a traditional mouse, because they have issues with their hands. So they'll use trackballs and other crazy contraptions. Having a trackpad like this would give them another option...

So it does have its uses, but it's definitely not for everyone.

Well, at least (I guess you could say) this computer was free. I can kind of understand the trackpad in some ways, but buying it, and the magic mouse, you are nearly buying the same product.

Sneaky Snake, on 27 July 2010 - 07:07 PM, said:

The 5750 is a relatively high end card. It runs pretty much every maxed (in windows at least).

Also, no one seems to have noticed that the Mac Pro also got a GPU bump: 5770 is standard, with the option for the 5870. Firetruck yes!

5770 vs 5750

Sum of FPS for 5750 - what you can see here is that the 5750 beats the 4870, so again, I would say that its verging into high range. 5670 is mid range.

…but is not the 5750 a mobile card though?

Liberator.

[Sneaky Snake]

The Liberator, on 27 July 2010 - 07:22 PM, said:

…but is not the 5750 a mobile card though?

Liberator.

We will have to wait for Rob_art's analysis, but the last one with the 4850 appeared to be a desktop card, according to this thread

[ltcommander.data]

The Liberator, on 27 July 2010 - 07:22 PM, said:

…but is not the 5750 a mobile card though?

Liberator.

Sneaky Snake, on 27 July 2010 - 09:46 PM, said:

We will have to wait for Rob_art's analysis, but the last one with the 4850 appeared to be a desktop card, according to this thread

http://www.pubbs.net...ack-screen.html

Based on crash logs the previous iMac HD 4850 was actually a Mobility HD 4850 which should perform something in between the desktop HD 4830 and HD 4850 so Apple had it aptly named. The previous HD 4670 was also a Mobility HD 4670 part.

Most likely the new iMacs are using a Mobility HD 5850 or HD 5870, which share the same die as the desktop HD 5700 series and would provide performance around a desktop HD 5750, hence the name. That should also mean performance is more of a sidegrade over the previous HD 4850, plus DX11/OpenGL 4.x support.

Apple going ATI for GPUs is a sensible choice. For all the marketing of Apple and nVidia being buddies, ATI OS X drivers have been very strong is recent years, especially considering the performance regressions in the nVidia drivers that Valve and Blizzard noted in 10.6.4.

[The Liberator]

ltcommander.data, on 27 July 2010 - 10:35 PM, said:

http://www.pubbs.net...ack-screen.html

Based on crash logs the previous iMac HD 4850 was actually a Mobility HD 4850 which should perform something in between the desktop HD 4830 and HD 4850 so Apple had it aptly named. The previous HD 4670 was also a Mobility HD 4670 part.

Most likely the new iMacs are using a Mobility HD 5850 or HD 5870, which share the same die as the desktop HD 5700 series and would provide performance around a desktop HD 5750, hence the name. That should also mean performance is more of a sidegrade over the previous HD 4850, plus DX11/OpenGL 4.x support.

Apple going ATI for GPUs is a sensible choice. For all the marketing of Apple and nVidia being buddies, ATI OS X drivers have been very strong is recent years, especially considering the performance regressions in the nVidia drivers that Valve and Blizzard noted in 10.6.4.

Hmmm, I guess we will have to wait for confirmation. Lt, you were saying that the 5750 is actually a 5850 mobility, which is basically a 5750 desktop, yes? So, if correct the cards (at least now) are saying what they actually are.

Liberator.

[Sneaky Snake]

The Liberator, on 28 July 2010 - 01:20 AM, said:

Hmmm, I guess we will have to wait for confirmation. Lt, you were saying that the 5750 is actually a 5850 mobility, which is basically a 5750 desktop, yes? So, if correct the cards (at least now) are saying what they actually are.

Liberator.

Yea, its confusing, but that appears to be the case. A mobile 5850 or 5870, which gives performance around that of a 5750.

[ltcommander.data]

The Liberator, on 28 July 2010 - 01:20 AM, said:

Hmmm, I guess we will have to wait for confirmation. Lt, you were saying that the 5750 is actually a 5850 mobility, which is basically a 5750 desktop, yes? So, if correct the cards (at least now) are saying what they actually are.

Liberator.

http://forums.macrum...ad.php?t=978676

The iMac's HD 5750 is confirmed as a standard clocked Mobility HD 5850 with GPU-Z.

[The Liberator]

Thanks for clarification guys. Hmm well that now makes me think. Why did Apple not try and fit a more powerful card in there? Would there have been heating problems or…?

Liberator.

[teflon]

heat and form factor.
Heat because Apple like to run a fairly fine line with their parts and the space they cram them into.

Form factor, because a desktop card 99% of the time comes on its own distinct card with its own ports on the back etc. etc. A mobile GPU is very compressed, has no ports of its own to worry about, etc. etc. So when Apple are cramming all this stuff in, it's easier to go with a mobile part which is very often used in such a way (Possibly still using the MXM connectors to have easily replaceable mobile GPUs) than go for a desktop part where it would be very much a custom job.