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Steve Jobs major new product


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#41 Janichsan

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 02:53 PM

View PostAtticus, on January 27th 2010, 09:45 PM, said:

Yeah, I gotta admit that I think Apple coughed up another Cube. Oh well.
I actually started writing my post while the event was still ongoing by comparing the iPad to the Cube, up to the point that the price of the iPad was revealed to be less idiotically high than predicted (though $830 for the top-of-the-range model is far from cheap). That took one of my main arguments away.

Still: just like the Cube, the iPad falls somewhat between categories, and not in a good way in my opinion. Nevertheless, I have the feeling that the iPad will sell like sliced bread, at least when I take some of the reports from the event and commentaries to it into account. Seems like Steve's RDF is fully functional.

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#42 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:00 PM

I think this will perfectly cover the Netbook crowd and maybe a little more. I know i was suggesting an ipod touch for my parents to go travelling with, this might be better. Does Iwork come default or do you have to buy it? I don't understand why they're not pushing it as one of the main features?

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#43 DaveyJJ

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:03 PM

I will be devil's advocate here.

LCD screens may not be as good as eInk but I use them every day, all day, and read from them fine. Add in IPS and great colours and you've got a winner. You're looking at an LCD right now, I bet.

Not a netbook? Of course not. Steve said it best ... netbooks are basically underpowered cheap laptops with bad screens. If you want one, get one. But you won't get iLife with that netbook. This isn't for you.

This device does fall exactly between the power of a MacBook and the touch. It will do 95% of what every normal person does on a computer ... surfing, emailing, watching pr0n videos on YouTube, tweeting, writing notes, listening to music, playing games, iLife and iWork type stuff, devouring media. It weighs less than a netbook, can be used with one hand, has a better screen and longer battery life, etc.

It will do most people very very well, in fact. Add in the unlimited data plan (and the mic and speakers), and you have a Skype phone as well. Many here may not use it or even like it, and I agree that in many ways it's an oversized touch, and I also said there will be naysayers about it's specs/use/etc, but that works for most people. Add in the iTunes ecosystem and I think they have a huge winner on their hands. It'll sell like hotcakes and the app store will boom again.

But I know that's not the feeling of many here.

Now, my lingering question ... iBooks US-only????

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#44 jackdawsson

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:08 PM

View PostJanichsan, on January 27th 2010, 08:19 PM, said:

Seriously, what's the point?

1. It's not a good eBook reader. There's a reason why (most) dedicated eBook readers like the Kindle use eInk displays and thus limit themselves to black and white or grayscale at the best: readability. No liquid crystal display can provide the same contrast and clarity as eInk.

2. It's not a good portable media player. Okay, it's a really good media player – but not really portable. You can surely carry it around with you, but just look at the size of that frigging thing: it certainly doesn't fit in your pocket and to lug it around, you'll need a decently sized bag.

3. It's not really a netbook competitor. As limited and cheap (in every regard) netbooks are, they still have an advantage over the iPad: they run a fully featured operating system with fully featured software – which makes some more appealing for work. The portable iWork is surely nice, but still no equivalent of MS Office (as despicable as it is – it is the standard). Furthermore, netbooks have a real keyboard – out of the box. The touch keyboard of the iPad is pretty useless for real work (how the hell are you supposed to hold that thing while typing anyway??) while the additional keyboard dock (for which we still don't know a price) reduced its portability.

It really surprises me, but this is probably the first Apple product for a long time that does not tempt me at all. Not. The. Slightest. Bit.
Agreed!  Can't see much point to this at all. Though I prefer books, I've been mulling over buying an eReader sometime soon.  Now we've seen the iPad, looks like it'll be either a Kindle or one of its established competitors (maybe a Sony).  

Yes, also seems fairly useless as portable media player, besides which I already have a decent, really portable SanDisk player at a nice price.  As for "netbook competitor"?  I feel the same way.  Even a basic netbook would be far more useful to me than this.  Overall: iPad not even remotely a consideration for me.  Disappointing.

#45 Janichsan

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:15 PM

View PostDaveyJJ, on January 27th 2010, 10:03 PM, said:

LCD screens may not be as good as eInk but I use them every day, all day, and read from them fine. Add in IPS and great colours and you've got a winner. You're looking at an LCD right now, I bet.
And you are right about that. And that is exactly why I know that LCDs simply suck for actually enjoyable and/or productive reading. When I want (or need) to read something (instead of skimming short texts like forum posts), I print it out.

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#46 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:38 PM

View PostDaveyJJ, on January 28th 2010, 08:03 AM, said:

... surfing, emailing, watching pr0n


It doesnt have flash

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#47 HeadWes

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:47 PM

So, uh... what do you do with it?
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#48 J'nathus

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:53 PM

View PostAussieMacGamer, on January 27th 2010, 02:38 PM, said:

It doesnt have flash

If that's true, that'll be its Achilles heal.

#49 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:56 PM

View PostJ, on January 27th 2010, 04:53 PM, said:

If that's true, that'll be its Achilles heal.

Not necessarily. Youtube is already moving to HTML 5 for its vids, and I expect that a lot of video sites, ads, games, etc will follow. That said I have no idea if this supports HTML 5, but Safari does so I dunno.

I'm impressed with the iPad (not the name tho :P), like DaveyJJ I think that this could replace my laptop, especially if they get some sort of reasonable Data plan here in Canada (not sure about yet), although even just having a smaller data limit would be completely fine with me. Since my dad got his iPhone he's used about 1.9 GB's (about 6 months of data), that doesn't include that WiFi usage of course. Your not going to be downloading giant files on the iPad, that would take forever on 3G.

I noticed that it says iBooks is US only  :glare:


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#50 teflon

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 05:27 PM

I dunno. It's a first gen product, and it's obviously going to go through several revisions before it hits its stride. There's a certain potential for it to evolve into a great product.

On the tech side, OLED screens are on their way which will have certain clear advantages over LCDs (I have a feeling that going IPS is the prime reason for the odd choice of 4:3 decision). Revisions could also add front facing cameras, larger memory again, a better design etc. etc. But the core is already in place.

On the software side, it's a trade off. Either they go for OSX and it disappoints, or they go iPhone OS and build off the momentum there. There's a lot of potential, again, for the third parties to come along and create iPad specific versions of their main software on OSX or Windows. iWork is leading the way here, and it makes sense. It's quite fleshed out feature wise, and you could probably do as much with it with as good results (if not better) than you could on a net book or an iPad running OSX.

There's still plenty of work to be done on the iPhone OS, though. For the iPad we need multitasking/background apps in particular. It's understandable not doing so with the iPhone or touch, but the Pad needs it, and could even do with being able to display two apps side by side.
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#51 Mr. Selvetarm

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:47 PM

I feel like this is the perfect device for a lot of people. Little Tina on the couch, checking Facebook. Grandpa Bill, who can't run a real computer, but can easily figure out the email and browser on the iPad. I myself am selling my MBP to my roomate in a few days, and will pick up the 32gb with 3g model.
    Stock, it does most of what I want, but once the JB community gets to it, the majority of the percieved flaws in the device will be eliminated. Only time will tell, but I think this will fill a niche market incredibly well.

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#52 DaveyJJ

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:51 PM

It's sort of moot here in Canuckistan. Bell/Rogers and their pet dog, the CRTC, will delay and diddle the introduction of the iPad in Canada months trying ways to keep their data plan and monopolistic gouging practices going, despite Apple's best efforts. Then Chapters-Indigo will jump all over it for the whole iBook thing. I'm a book collector and avid reader ... this wouldn't be my main reading thing (that would be a book) but for titles I just want on the go it's fine. That said, lack of iBooks or Canadian equivalent is sucky but I'll wait until June-ish to make a final pronouncement.

Flash? I despise it. I did web accessibility and W3C compliance lectures for years and it can die. Anyone who does any site that needs to be properly accessible and compliant to (most) standards using Flash isn't thinking things through well and doing a huge disservice to their client and the end user. Great for little games and such, but I'm all over the HTML5 and CSS3 bandwagon these days. I write my CSS sites for major clients so that I don't even use IE-specific hacks. Flash and IE, especially IE6, need to go away forever.

I think the tablet hit the mark well for the majority of people. Apple's goal is to sell them to get us moving into the direction they want, and sell it will. I can't imagine anyone here thinking it won't.

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#53 Mister Mumbles

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:52 PM

View PostJanichsan, on January 27th 2010, 12:00 PM, said:

So, there it is – the fabled Apple tablet, aptly named the "iPad". And it is...

...an oversized iPod touch.

Posted Image

I'm completely unimpressed.

Amen. That's pretty much what came to my mind when I checked up on this after work today. This really does seem like a complete waste of money with quite a limited usability. I'll be much better off saving that kind of money for the replacement of my current unibody Macbook (which I absolutely love - sorry iMac) a year or two down the line.

Yup. So I'm covered with all my basic (and slightly advanced) computing needs by my Macbook, and I've got my iPod Touch for on the go. The iPad is completely pointless, IMO. Then again, the crippled computers that netbooks are never appealed to me either.
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#54 The Liberator

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:00 PM

View PostDaveyJJ, on January 27th 2010, 10:41 PM, said:

A clean "slate" ... tee-hee.
Oh jeez.  :cool:

View PostJanichsan, on January 28th 2010, 07:00 AM, said:

So, there it is – the fabled Apple tablet, aptly named the "iPad". And it is...

...an oversized iPod touch.

Posted Image

I'm completely unimpressed.

View PostPegasus, on January 28th 2010, 12:52 PM, said:

Amen. That's pretty much what came to my mind when I checked up on this after work today. This really does seem like a complete waste of money with quite a limited usability. I'll be much better off saving that kind of money for the replacement of my current unibody Macbook (which I absolutely love - sorry iMac) a year or two down the line.
…


View PostJanichsan, on January 28th 2010, 07:19 AM, said:

Seriously, what's the point?
…
It really surprises me, but this is probably the first Apple product for a long time that does not tempt me at all. Not. The. Slightest. Bit.
Hmm me either. I think I can completely agree with you guys, I cannot think of any reason why I personally would want this device, as it does not temp me at all. You guys can go and knock yourselves out, by all means. I am going to spend that money on other things, like a larger budget to a computer, and games, lots of games.

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#55 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:30 PM

View PostThe Liberator, on January 27th 2010, 09:00 PM, said:

Hmm me either. I think I can completely agree with you guys, I cannot think of any reason why I personally would want this device, as it does not temp me at all.

I dunno, this thing would be a great bathroom companion, for those long campaigns on the crapper  :cool:
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#56 Mr. Selvetarm

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:55 PM

View PostPegasus, on January 27th 2010, 08:52 PM, said:

Amen. That's pretty much what came to my mind when I checked up on this after work today. This really does seem like a complete waste of money with quite a limited usability. I'll be much better off saving that kind of money for the replacement of my current unibody Macbook (which I absolutely love - sorry iMac) a year or two down the line.

Yup. So I'm covered with all my basic (and slightly advanced) computing needs by my Macbook, and I've got my iPod Touch for on the go. The iPad is completely pointless, IMO. Then again, the crippled computers that netbooks are never appealed to me either.

The point of the device isn't to appeal to someone who already has an iPod/Phone and a laptop. The point is for people like myself who have neither. It's a glorified MID, and in that respect it looks great. If you look at it from just the POV as an iPod or Macbook, then it does indeed fail. But I don't need a full laptop anymore, and an iPod isn't enough for me. So there's the iPad. It occupies a niche market to be sure, but i think you'll see that that market will expand now that devices will be released to support it.

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#57 Tetsuya

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:03 PM

for me to consider one over a MacBook, it needs to:

seamlessly let me store files in folders of my own designation and choosing

access those files at will

be able to edit most types of files (however awkward it may be to do so  on the touch screen)

use most common productivity apps on the go

use more than one app at a time

background apps (i better be able to have an AIM client running)

REAL iTUNES.  I mean it.  As much of an improvement over the regular iPod as the Touch was, this needs to have real, honest-to-god iTunes on it, not the cripple Cover-flow-mandatory UI from the iTouch.  I want to be able to sort by any of the 50 options i can do so on my computer.  Given that this has plenty of screen room to do so, there's no excuse.  


2nd Gen:  be twice as thick as it is and have that extra thickness be a keyboard.  even if you have to detatch it and set it up like the shown accessory, making it a detatchable part of the main product is a must.  

2nd Gen:  be controllable via an iTouch similar to how i can control iTunes with my touch now.  

then you've sold me.  

until it does those things, no sale.  

My iTouch does everything i need it to do that this does.  And it was 300 dollars cheaper for twice the storage space.

#58 Frost

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:49 PM

Well, looks like most folks here hate it, but I sure don't!

It's everything I love about the iPhone/iPod Touch, and none of what I don't. Touch has no 3G or even options for 3G, and I do not, never have, and never will have a cellphone surgically attached, so the only thing that could possibly make me get an iPhone is the ability to use GoPhone service for the phone and then the full data plan for data; which you can't. They lowered the price of the $130 plan to $100? Great! Still $70 too expensive.

I reached a conclusion that I just want a PDA to complement my phone which simply handles basic communication and plays music, and so was going to go for the Touch eventually, but still lamented the lack of being able to use 3G, and given easy web access was the primary concern that tiny screen was just a tad annoying.

iPad solves all my problems and is bigger and far more useful to boot. It would fill the gap between my Motorola flip phone and PowerMac G5 most agreeably.
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#59 Tesseract

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 01:56 AM

I actually feel exactly the same way about this as I do the iPhone. I definitely see the appeal, but I don't think I would have any use for one at this point in my life.

It's clearly meant to be a big iPhone, not a small Mac, so if your complaint is that it isn't an MBP, you're missing the point. I think there is a definite niche for, say, a 10" MacBook Air with a swivel-around (like the OLPC XO) touch screen, but that's another product.

#60 Janichsan

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 04:16 AM

After sleeping one night over it, I came to the conclusion that iWork touch and the keyboard dock ($69, by the way – so for a high end iPad with keyboard dock, you end up at $900) give the iPad only the pretence of being suitable for actual work.

The keyboard dock is an ergonomic disaster. While keyboard itself is probably okay (being apparently the same as the recent Mac keyboard), the positioning of the iPad itself is completely unflexible: no way to tilt or swivel it, so that you are stuck with the same display angle no matter what. Annoying reflections on the screen (which is of course glossy...)? Bad luck. You want to press a on-screen button? You have to lift your arm and touch the screen. You want to resize something? You have lift both arms and touch it. Exactly the reasons why a touch screen desktop computer makes no sense – it's awkward to work with.

Coming to iWork touch: you'll probably more or less fine as long as you only have to work in one application (except for the above mentioned ergonomic problems). But when you have for example a Pages document with a Numbers graph, you'll be screwed. Want to change something in the graph? Quit Pages, launch Numbers, edit the data, save them (I assume there will be a more or less feasible way for file handling, though I have no idea how that looks like), possibly copy the graph in Numbers, quit Numbers, launch Pages, insert the graph. The lack of multitasking turns the whole experience of doing something on the iPad that actually would resemble work into a nice little flashback to the computer stone age.

There's a story about why took so long to release the tablet:

Quote

Another former Apple executive who was there at the time said the tablets kept getting shelved at Apple because Mr. Jobs, whose incisive critiques are often memorable, asked, in essence, what they were good for besides surfing the Web in the bathroom.
Unfortunately, the more I think of it, the iPad is not good for that much else than surfing the Web in the bathroom...

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