[jgwdoc]

So, games started crashing for me under Vista, and I blamed the game, then I blamed Vista, but then they started crashing under OSX so I'm getting suspicious it might be my 8800GT dying (after only 18 months?). Under either OS, everything works fine until you launch a game (any) and then I get a hard crash. TechTool Pro 5 tells me my VRAM is OK, and the 2 crashing OSes are on different HDs, so I doubt it's the drive. Also, TechTool tells me the computer is OK when it runs its suites. So how do I know if it's really the video card before I run off an buy a new one?

[flyman]

jgwdoc, on September 29th 2009, 06:24 AM, said:

So, games started crashing for me under Vista, and I blamed the game, then I blamed Vista, but then they started crashing under OSX so I'm getting suspicious it might be my 8800GT dying (after only 18 months?). Under either OS, everything works fine until you launch a game (any) and then I get a hard crash. TechTool Pro 5 tells me my VRAM is OK, and the 2 crashing OSes are on different HDs, so I doubt it's the drive. Also, TechTool tells me the computer is OK when it runs its suites. So how do I know if it's really the video card before I run off an buy a new one?

I too have had problems with games crashing and fragmented images on my Mac Pro with an 8800GT (also about 18 months old).
I ran all the necessary hardware checks but oddly it didn't flag any issues with the graphics card!
I've since spoken with Apple and they've sent me a replacement card which at the moment seems to be working ok - thankfully I had Applecare!

Sorry I cant offer any practicle advice but I hope you get it fixed soon.

[PeopleLikeFrank]

Graphic artifacts are a pretty good sign. It sounds like the card isn't having a problem until it starts getting stressed - likely over heating - so the hardware diagnostics likely aren't finding anything. You could try downloading a graphics benchmarking tool, and see if it has the same results as the games. You could also try downclocking the card, and see if that helps, which would nail down whether it's overheating.

I think it sounds like you've pretty effectively narrowed it down already. I'd have a talk with Apple if it's still under warranty.

[jgwdoc]

Thanks folks, you're confirming my take on the issue. Hard to explain in any other way a problem on multiple OSes and multiple HDs, particularly since my motherboard seems to check out ok. I'll talk to Apple, though I'd be impressed if they replaced it after 18 months. A good excuse to get a flashed 4870 with 1GB of RAM.

[PeopleLikeFrank]

I just had the 4870 in my PC crap out on me. I had put a 3rd party heatsink on it, which had small sinks for the RAM that attached via adhesive. After the computer booted with no video signal, I opened the case, and three or four of the RAM sinks had fallen off, who knows how long ago. So I put the original heatsink back on and sent it in for exchange...

[yo-mike]

My nvidia ti4600 just kicked the bucket too. It started out with misaligned screens. Then I got out of range monitor errors. Finally it gave nothing else, save a black screen. I replaced the
ti with my 9200, which properly supports RAVE. I'm pleased enough.

-Mike

[jgwdoc]

How do you folks feel about after-market fans? Are they necessary, or only if you heavily overclock? And which ones do you like? I have to believe that if my 8800GT died it was from heavy usage, and maybe keeping the next card cooler would help.

[bobbob]

First things first: memtest+.

jgwdoc, on September 29th 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

Are they necessary, or only if you heavily overclock?

You can typically find quieter ones than stock, and they might cool better, but you should really check the temps before you bother. The chips are specced to run hot (~100C, max), and 50C-60C is usually what they usually run at, but those shouldn't be hard targets to reach. Also check the airflow, even around the RAM.

Quote

I have to believe that if my 8800GT died it was from heavy usage, and maybe keeping the next card cooler would help

Unless you actually noticed high temperatures I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

[PeopleLikeFrank]

Aftermarket coolers really aren't necessary unless you want to overclock or quiet the card. I personally usually get one for the latter reason (or keep an eye out for editions of the card that use a custom cooling solution designed to reduce noise. Word of warning though: the Arctic Cooling Twin Turbo, though excellent at cooling the GPU itself, had real problems cooling the voltage regulators on my 4870 until I got someone's custom made heatsink for that purpose. It was fine after that until the adhesive crapped out on the VRAM sinks. So if you do look at aftermarket cooling, I'd either take a look at an alternative to the TT, or get some good thermal adhesive tape for the VRAM sinks.

[jgwdoc]

I checked my current temps and they were pretty normal, so maybe my 8800GT was a bit of a lemon. I'll check the temps on the 4870 when it comes, but the guys at bruinmacs who sold me the card told me they've never really needed coolers on it, so I guess I'll wait and see. Have you folks noticed that it's now possible to buy flashed 4890s and injected GTX285s for first gen MacPros? Very tempting, but I didn't really want to deal with constantly updating my drivers manually since Apple would not support them in Software Update, and apparently there have been some crashes when Apple sneaks in GPU updates for their supported cards.

[feral_thierry]

As someone who swaps in/out video cards on a fairly regular basis, I'm always amazed at how much dust can gather on them in a relatively short period of time (or maybe I'm just really messy).

Cleaning out the insides of your tower with some compressed air every once in while shouldn't hurt in your quest to keep the temperatures down

[Tetsuya]

jgwdoc, on September 30th 2009, 05:53 AM, said:

I checked my current temps and they were pretty normal, so maybe my 8800GT was a bit of a lemon. I'll check the temps on the 4870 when it comes, but the guys at bruinmacs who sold me the card told me they've never really needed coolers on it, so I guess I'll wait and see. Have you folks noticed that it's now possible to buy flashed 4890s and injected GTX285s for first gen MacPros? Very tempting, but I didn't really want to deal with constantly updating my drivers manually since Apple would not support them in Software Update, and apparently there have been some crashes when Apple sneaks in GPU updates for their supported cards.

uh.. what?

Software Update doesn't check your video card and download new drivers for your card - driver updates 99% of the time come as part of the point updates, and the update just updates all of the video drivers for every card apple supports.

and what do you mean by "injected" 285s?

[jgwdoc]

Tetsuya, on September 30th 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

uh.. what?

Software Update doesn't check your video card and download new drivers for your card - driver updates 99% of the time come as part of the point updates, and the update just updates all of the video drivers for every card apple supports.

and what do you mean by "injected" 285s?

But the updates (obviously) wont support a card that Apple doesn't support, and will often break things if you've jerry-rigged a solution for an esoteric card.
As to injectors, I mean this: netkas

[teflon]

Most of the time those cards are only working in macs because they're the same card, or close enough that they might as well be the same card bar a few clock speed changes.
In the case of the 4890, as far as Im aware its literally a 4870 just at slightly higher clocks. Get the RAM timings right in the ROM, change the identifier code and you're golden.

I don't understand injectors even with that link.

Anyway, I've yet to hear of any flashed cards being broken by one of Apple's software updates. And I've had a couple flashed cards for a good few years now. The ROM which is flashed onto the card contains all the necessary gubbins to hook straight into the driver, often by means of a copied device ID code.

[Eric5h5]

There aren't any non-Apple drivers for OS X, are there? So there's nothing for updates to break. Any fiddling one might do with firmware is unrelated to the drivers, and won't be touched by Software Update.

--Eric

[Greg Gant]

Y'know the only graphics card I've had die, (A GeForce 4 Ti something or other) and ATI Radeon 9800, died rather instantaneously without much warning. The 9800 died like every other 9800 did, with the garbled screen, same as my brother's on his PC and two of my good friends.

On the subject of aftermarket coolers:

I installed a silent headpipe heat sink on my 8800 GT. Its rather nice having a fanless graphics card as its the loudest component in the Mac Pros. After market coolers are optional but there are reasons to install them outside of simply ocing.

[jgwdoc]

teflon, on October 1st 2009, 10:29 AM, said:

Most of the time those cards are only working in macs because they're the same card, or close enough that they might as well be the same card bar a few clock speed changes.
In the case of the 4890, as far as Im aware its literally a 4870 just at slightly higher clocks. Get the RAM timings right in the ROM, change the identifier code and you're golden.

I don't understand injectors even with that link.

Anyway, I've yet to hear of any flashed cards being broken by one of Apple's software updates. And I've had a couple flashed cards for a good few years now. The ROM which is flashed onto the card contains all the necessary gubbins to hook straight into the driver, often by means of a copied device ID code.

Eric5h5, on October 1st 2009, 10:39 AM, said:

There aren't any non-Apple drivers for OS X, are there? So there's nothing for updates to break. Any fiddling one might do with firmware is unrelated to the drivers, and won't be touched by Software Update.

--Eric

Most of my knowledge (which is not too extensive) comes from the Netkas site and from a few ongoing conversations about these issues in the macrumors forum. Flashed 4890s have crashed with software updates, and netkas actually released a patch to solve the problem. And he (again, netkas) seems to have figured out a way to modify PC GTX285s to make them work in first gen MacPros. You folks (I would think) would understand what he's talking about a lot better than I do. My knowledge is reduced to the primitive: it can be made to work, and I covet one. But apparently the same process would work in the 300 line soon-to-be-released, so I'm going to use the 4870 for now, esp. since the prices are falling.

[teflon]

Righto, Ill have a look at his site, see what's going on.
Although I have no idea how they can claim that the 300 series cards will work with the same process, since they're not out yet, and they've announced that its on a whole new architecture...

[jgwdoc]

The card was indeed the problem. 4870 works fine in all OSes. Yeah! A week without gaming made me very cranky.

As to more on injectors (they insert new kexts), the following links are helpful: netkas 1 ;
netkas 2 ; netkas 3

There are also some discussions about the topic at the Project OS X forums. A bit over my head, but interesting and I suspect teflon/Eric/bobbob will understand it much more easily than I.

[yo-mike]

jgwdoc, on September 29th 2009, 10:58 PM, said:

How do you folks feel about after-market fans? Are they necessary, or only if you heavily overclock? And which ones do you like? I have to believe that if my 8800GT died it was from heavy usage, and maybe keeping the next card cooler would help.

Hi,
Speaking from experience, I'd recommend a GPU aftermarket fan. Cooler is better, heat cooks.
As for slot coolers, search for something a bit quiet, just because it looks cheesy or glows, doesn't mean it can't cool well. Search for lower dba and highest CFM (if possible) - they tend to get dusty, too.
Edit: btw, is that Dr. Strange on your avatar?
-Mike