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Snow Leopard officially announced for this Friday


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#41 teflon

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 05:26 AM

Well, if I did it any other way I'd either have a ton of old clutter which has a) stayed there because of an in place upgrade or b) been transferred across by the Migration Assistant, and/or I'd have to dig out a ton of old install discs which Im not entirely sure I know where they are, and still have to copy various files back across.

This way I can root out any old preference/whatever files which I no longer want or need and get rid of a ton of the rubbish which has accumulated in the corners of my drive. It'll also mean that I've definitely got all the latest versions of any apps, they all work and even after this it'll quite possibly be quicker to have my install and set up completely sorted without any of those new system annoyances where you haven't sorted out all your little tweaks yet.

Its my very own little ritual (Now, where did I put my incense candle and chimes?) that I go through every other OS release. I did it for 10.4, but not for 10.5, so now its time. Given all the architectural changes, I feel that its as good a time as any.
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#42 dojoboy

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 06:20 AM

View Postteflon, on August 29th 2009, 07:26 AM, said:

Well, if I did it any other way I'd either have a ton of old clutter which has a) stayed there because of an in place upgrade or b) been transferred across by the Migration Assistant, and/or I'd have to dig out a ton of old install discs which Im not entirely sure I know where they are, and still have to copy various files back across.

This way I can root out any old preference/whatever files which I no longer want or need and get rid of a ton of the rubbish which has accumulated in the corners of my drive. It'll also mean that I've definitely got all the latest versions of any apps, they all work and even after this it'll quite possibly be quicker to have my install and set up completely sorted without any of those new system annoyances where you haven't sorted out all your little tweaks yet.

Its my very own little ritual (Now, where did I put my incense candle and chimes?) that I go through every other OS release. I did it for 10.4, but not for 10.5, so now its time. Given all the architectural changes, I feel that its as good a time as any.

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#43 teflon

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 06:41 AM

Its not too many places. And since you've got a clone of your drive, there's no worry of missing anything and not having it.
Start off with the apps, then utilities (I like to store things in the utilities folder sometimes), preference panes, application support, preferences, music, video, pictures, then all the miscellaneous things you've got dotted around.
Doesn't have to be in that particular order, but the things that get changed the least, but used the most (so the OS and applications) should go first, so that they get the super fastest read speeds with the lowest seek times. After that it doesn't really matter too much.

There's a few gotcha's to look out for, like software licenses which tie themselves to something specific in the system, Mail (I have no idea why this app is such a PITA, but it is!), and de-authorising iTunes' (I think) to not waste an authorisation, but you can figure them out quite easily, and aside from that its just copying and pasting.

Don't feel like you're doing anything wrong, though, this is just my own little ritual to get myself as clean an install as possible to last me for the next 4 years or so. Migration Assistant would also do quite a good job, but I'd still be left with a bunch of preferences I don't want or need, so this gives me an opportunity to re-evaluate everything on my drive.
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#44 Ranger_Joe

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 07:00 AM

I just did a clean install of 10.6.  It appears that Rosetta, Apple's PPC support software is not part of a standard 10.6 install.  It is possible to include it as part of a custom install.  :blink:

#45 Janichsan

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 07:04 AM

...or it installs as soon as you try to run a PPC program.

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#46 Cougar

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 07:11 AM

View Postteflon, on August 29th 2009, 10:29 AM, said:

I believe that for compatibility, you can install QT 7 alongside QT X. But really, you've got to ask yourself why you're using QT in the first place. VLC is simply the best video player there is, and it looks like QT X has plenty of issues that means it doesn't even begin to challenge.

Oh, I use VLC all the time. I would just love a version of quicktime that would play anything you threw at it. Then there will be no need for VLC. Alas, QTX does not change that.

#47 Ranger_Joe

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 08:10 AM

View PostJanichsan, on August 29th 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

...or it installs as soon as you try to run a PPC program.
Excellent.

#48 teflon

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 09:33 AM

View PostCougar, on August 29th 2009, 02:11 PM, said:

Oh, I use VLC all the time. I would just love a version of quicktime that would play anything you threw at it. Then there will be no need for VLC. Alas, QTX does not change that.

Yeah, I just tried QT X, and it doesn't do AVIs, MKVs, WMVs are anything except MOV and MP4s out of the box. Disappointing since i understood it was meant to have better codec support...
Also there's no blanking out of a second screen, or even any preferences... Im sure I can find more that's wrong with it, but I won't bother and just use VLC till QT X2 is out...

My install went well so far. Still one or two hours from everything being set up, but that's mainly copy time for my iTunes library and WinClone backups.
The main things that aren't working for me so far are an F-key manager (OneKey) and iStatmenus, several Safari based tweaks (thanks 64-bit!), and I need to get to work on sorting out Mail (and remember how to do it too!).
Oh, and decide what to do with my Time Machine backup. I rarely use it so I might just plain simple scrap it and stick with SuperDuper for all my back up needs... We'll see...
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#49 Cougar

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 09:48 AM

View Postteflon, on August 29th 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

The main things that aren't working for me so far are an F-key manager (OneKey) and iStatmenus, several Safari based tweaks (thanks 64-bit!), and I need to get to work on sorting out Mail (and remember how to do it too!).

An iStatmenus update is supposed to come out in a few days. Safari tweaks will likely forever be broken. Running Safari in 32 bit right now with glims, which works OK except the preferences pane doesn't work!

#50 Cobra

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 11:15 PM

Snow Leopard is a really sweet OS.
I especially like the new browsing from the dock feature for folders.

#51 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:32 AM

Wonder if istat menu's will let us see how OpenCL and GCD are being used. How hard would it be to add a GPU process monitor?

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#52 teflon

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 08:45 AM

View PostCougar, on August 29th 2009, 04:48 PM, said:

An iStatmenus update is supposed to come out in a few days. Safari tweaks will likely forever be broken. Running Safari in 32 bit right now with glims, which works OK except the preferences pane doesn't work!

Yeah, ive been looking at all my plug-ins and most should be out in Snow form soon enough. It'll be interesting to see if they can all jump on the 64 bit bandwagon.

How much space have you guys all saved?
Me? I was down to about 120GB, but after clearing a ton of large files out which were just hiding in obscure places, and resigning them to fates on external HDDs or binary deaths, Im back up to....... 181.35GB. Thats a saving of 60GB! beat that!
Well, actually, Apple are lying. See they've decided that binary is for losers, so they've switched the size of each kilobyte, megabyte gigabyte and terrabyte from 1024 to 1000 units. So my space saving isn't actually 60GB, but more like 50GB. Which I guess we should have to start calling Gibibytes.  :bleedingeyes:
Stupid Apple. Give us a choice, for once, eh?

Vmware fusion isn't playing nice yet. Which, I guess is part of the problem when Apple release their OS a month early and don't tell anyone...

On the OGL front, its quit interesting. 2.1 support is complete, but 3.0 is missing only 8 out of the 23 extensions, whilst they've grabbed rectangular texturing from 3.1 and Geometry Shader 4 from 3.2... So, they're more than most of the way to 3.0, and are picking and choosing what they're using in 3.1 and 3.2.
All this is on a 8600M GT, which I believe should be able to do 99% of what a 9600M GT can do, so it'll be interesting to see what other's can use.
Get the extensions viewer here
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#53 Cougar

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 08:51 AM

I saved about 16 GB, but if you take into account the change it's about 7, just as advertised. I find the change lame because files on my PowerBook will no longer be the same size as the ones on my iMac. I'd like for it to be consistent, if nothing else. Maybe apple will address this  in 10.5.9.

Anybody having Starcraft problems? I get a blank screen. Have to force-quit, and my cursor changes into a bizarre horizontal line. It's kind of entertaining!

EDIT: Upgraded Brood War to the latest version, and all is well.

#54 ltcommander.data

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 09:34 AM

View Postteflon, on August 30th 2009, 10:45 AM, said:

On the OGL front, its quit interesting. 2.1 support is complete, but 3.0 is missing only 8 out of the 23 extensions, whilst they've grabbed rectangular texturing from 3.1 and Geometry Shader 4 from 3.2... So, they're more than most of the way to 3.0, and are picking and choosing what they're using in 3.1 and 3.2.
All this is on a 8600M GT, which I believe should be able to do 99% of what a 9600M GT can do, so it'll be interesting to see what other's can use.
Get the extensions viewer here
http://forum.noteboo...mp;d=1251520669

This is another users capture from the 9400M on a MacBook which reads the same 15/28 extensions supported in OpenGL 3.0 so it's nice that the 8600M GT is still being treated on par as the 9000 series even if Apple doesn't acknowledge H.264 acceleration in Quicktime X. It'd be interesting to see if the GTX285 which has a third-party driver from EVGA has better support.

In terms of ARB_texture_rectangle in OpenGL 3.1, and ARB_geometry_shader4 in OpenGL 3.2, those already existed in Leopard and even appear on my X1600 in 10.5.8. At least in Leopard, I believe ARB_geometry_shader4 is still limited to software acceleration regardless of what hardware you have, explaining why my X1600 would be able to claim support. Kind of like how GLSL was supported when Tiger launched but hardware acceleration wasn't activated until 10.4.4. Perhaps Snow Leopard has hardware acceleration for ARB_geometry_shader4 or it'll be activated in an update.

http://www.phoronix....i...marks&num=3

As I posted in another thread, the GMA 950 seems to have gotten a big overhaul with OpenGL support jumping from OpenGL 1.2 in Tiger and Leopard to OpenGL 1.4 in Snow Leopard.

As well, previously even though Leopard was advertised as supporting OpenGL 2.1, only the software renderer was directly reporting OpenGL 2.1 support, like driver version 2.1 APPLE for the software renderer, while my X1600 read 2.0 ATI-1.5.48 and a 9400M read 2.0 NVIDIA-1.5.48 in Leopard even though both the X1600 and 9400M supported all the extensions for OpenGL 2.1 in Leopard as reported by GLView. In Snow Leopard, OpenGL 2.1 seems to be officially acknowledged by the driver reporting 2.1 NVIDIA-1.6.0 for the 9400M for instance.

From what I can tell from the developer documentation the following are new extensions added in Snow Leopard:
GL_APPLE_rgb_422	
GL_ARB_color_buffer_float	
GL_ARB_half_float_vertex	
GL_ARB_texture_compression_rgtc	
GL_ARB_texture_rg	
GL_EXT_draw_buffers2	
GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB	
GL_HALF_FLOAT	
GL_NV_conditional_render
Many of these were mentioned by Brad Oliver previously in another thread. Not sure what GL_APPLE_rgb_422 is though.

Phoronix reported that OpenGL performance seems to have regressed in Snow Leopard. Has anyone else found this to be true?

#55 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 01:51 PM

I just installed Snow Leopard, I haven't noticed anything major, but the UI is definitely snappier on the Mac Pro.  Logging in is the biggest speed difference. My sisters, me and, my parents all have accounts and the login time has really been reduced. It used to be about 20-30 seconds to load up my account, and auto-start quicksilver, and mail. Now it takes about 2-5 seconds

I really like the new quicktime, especially how it makes the video borderless. Is the new Quicktime the same as Quicktime Pro? I noticed that it has Record Audio, Video, and Screen functionality, as well as the ability to trim video. I can't remember if the old quicktime had that (I didn't have Pro).

What all is OpenCL accelerated at the moment?
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#56 teflon

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 03:08 PM

Quicktime X is to Quicktime 7 what iMovie 08 is to iMovie HD 6.
Its nice and swish, but lacks substance. On the plus side, they've got rid of QT Pro, it looks swish, and now let you do some simple recording, trimming and exporting, but gone is getting into some nitty gritty things like cutting and pasting streams together, a decent export feature that lets you pick your codec, size, format etc. etc. It doesn't block out a second+ screen (curse and blessing?), it still doesn't do float on top, and its still got lousy codec support outside of MPEG4 and its plethora of parts..

Basically, it is teh suxxor. Still. And you're far better off with VLC for your watching, and Handbrake for your encoding. Both are infinitely more flexible.

As for OpenCL. I don't really know what's using it. I can't find any info if Quicktime X is using it, Apple don't mention anything, just stating all the Core tech's that they've used for a while now.
You can, though, give OCL a quick test run using the OpenCL Benchmark. Its not particularly impressive to look at, and might as well spout out some random numbers as far as Im concerned, but it does show my 8600M GT to do something or other 5 times faster than my CPU.

I like how setting the toolbar in the finder to use small icons now affects all the icons as opposed to just the get info icon.. Though I still wish the get info icon wasn't so freakishly big in comparison to everything else.
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#57 The Liberator

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 04:14 PM

View Postteflon, on August 31st 2009, 07:08 AM, said:

Quicktime X is to Quicktime 7 what iMovie 08 is to iMovie HD 6.
Oh, God!!! My eyes burn with how bad it is. :bleedingeyes:

View Postteflon, on August 31st 2009, 07:08 AM, said:

…Its nice and swish, but lacks substance. On the plus side, they've got rid of QT Pro, it looks swish, and now let you do some simple recording, trimming and exporting, but gone is getting into some nitty gritty things like cutting and pasting streams together, a decent export feature that lets you pick your codec, size, format etc. etc. It doesn't block out a second+ screen (curse and blessing?), it still doesn't do float on top, and its still got lousy codec support outside of MPEG4 and its plethora of parts..

Basically, it is teh suxxor. Still. And you're far better off with VLC for your watching, and Handbrake for your encoding. Both are infinitely more flexible…
I wonder how long it will take Apple to finally get their media player up to scratch?

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#58 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 04:54 PM

View Postteflon, on August 30th 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Quicktime X is to Quicktime 7 what iMovie 08 is to iMovie HD 6.
Its nice and swish, but lacks substance. On the plus side, they've got rid of QT Pro, it looks swish, and now let you do some simple recording, trimming and exporting, but gone is getting into some nitty gritty things like cutting and pasting streams together, a decent export feature that lets you pick your codec, size, format etc. etc. It doesn't block out a second+ screen (curse and blessing?), it still doesn't do float on top, and its still got lousy codec support outside of MPEG4 and its plethora of parts..

Basically, it is teh suxxor. Still. And you're far better off with VLC for your watching, and Handbrake for your encoding. Both are infinitely more flexible.

Hmmm, looks like I spoke to soon. And I do agree that VLC+HB is quite a formidable pair, I use it quiet often. Quicktime X just looks a lot more "pretty"  I suppose then the older versions, I like it better then the standard quicktime, but as you said, I guess the advanced features are gone.

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#59 teflon

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 06:06 PM

View PostThe Liberator, on August 30th 2009, 11:14 PM, said:

Oh, God!!! My eyes burn with how bad it is. :bleedingeyes:

Its not all bad though. Because of the rewrite of QT, its now much better integrated into the system than it was before. Which is very important when you think that its the engine used for video and music in iTunes, the Finder, Quicklook, Safari, etc. etc.
It uses the GPU's native abilities to decode the video too, which is going to improve performance. Its quite possible that it uses the GPU to encode the video, but I wouldn't know how to find that out. Comparing the CPU usage in Activity Monitor and iStat Pro, iStat says that QT7 uses 26% CPU, VLC 22% whilst QT X uses 18% with a 720p H.264 file playing and looking at the total of the user's CPU usage. (iStat goes to 100% total, whilst Activity Monitor goes to 100% per CPU core)
Activity monitor said QTX used 35%, QT7 alongside vdedecoder used about 55-60%, and VLC around 40%. So, I mean, something good has come of it right there.
And its improvements are great when you think that its part of why Apple are able to increase the video size in iChat and give us free video recording with relatively low overheads.

But yeah, its disappointing that it hasn't widened its codec support. In particular, we need to see it handling VC-1 (a.k.a WMV9) natively instead of through Flip4Mac before we can even begin to hope that we'll see Blu-Ray support built into OSX. But even just expanding the number of container files it can handle would be good. MKV, AVI, MP4, and plenty more all tend to use H.264 at their heart for video these days, so why can't QT read them?

So its a good and bad thing. Good that its faster, 64-bit, looks cool and is well integrated into the system. Bad that it's lost advanced features, hasn't added many new features (like float on top, for the PiP-esque mode that would then happen), is still restricted to the home codecs, and hasn't moved us any closer to Blu-Ray.
A very 1.0 release, with plenty room for improvement.
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#60 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 07:31 PM

Hey, any word on when we might expect better support for switching GPUs in the MBPs? I'm thinking of getting one of the newer ones with the combo 9400M + 9600M GT, and it would be nice to do the whole power saving thing when not needing the beefier GPU, without having to re-log the user. Not that's it's really a major factor in the decision, but just wondering.
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