[pvtvega]

My MacBook gets up to 80 celcius when I am doing anything that's really graphics intensive like playing World of Warcraft. Most images don't heat it up, it's mainly games. I've blown on the fans with compressed air, and that hasn't really done much. It dropped the max temperature by about 5 degrees. I have smcfancontrol installed and I have it set to its highest RPM. I did hear that Apple put a lot of thermal paste on the processor, but I don't know if I should open my MacBook up. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

[teflon]

What Macbook do you have?
If its within the 1 or 3 years warranty (and if its only 1 why don't you have Applecare?), then I wouldn't take it apart, just make sure you've got a regular backup system (preferably a weekly clone of your HDD using CarboncopyCloner or Superduper in addition to Time Machine).

If you've actually got a Macbook Pro with an NVidia GPU built into it, then these are more likely to fail because of manufacturing defects on NVidia's side of things. As such Apple have extended the warranty on 8600m GT MBPs to 3 years for heat related GPU failures, but if your 9600m GT based MBP suffers a GPU failure, I have no doubt that you could argue your way to a free fix too.

Aside from that, 80ºC is pretty much par for the course when it comes to Apple's laptops when you're running a game. Just keep backups and you'll be fine.

[charmin]

My 9600 machine gets pretty dang hot if I'm gaming. Especially under Windows, which seems to have less of a grip on the fans. I've never thought of it as being "unusual" behaviour, more the result of a crapload of electricity + metal + my legs.

[pvtvega]

It's just the regular MacBook with the GMA X3100 built into it. I mean, as soon as I exit the game it drops down to high 40's which I'm sure is perfectly acceptable. I don't have an external hard drive.

[Sneaky Snake]

80 degrees shouldn't hurt the laptop. My Macbook Pro hits 90 degrees at times while under full CPU load. The CPU is designed to thermal throttle at 100 degrees, but in reality you probably won't see any damage until you went 110 + degrees. As long as you don't game for longer then a few hours I don't think you have anything to worry about.

If you want to cool it further you can by a laptop cooling stand. Mine keeps the MBP about 5-10 degrees cooler. If you don't want to pay for that then you can shove two things under the laptop on each side, which will allow for some airflow under the laptop, maybe cooling it down a few degrees. On my old powerbook it would sometimes freeze up during gaming due to high temps. Shoving a ruler or something below each side would eliminate the problem

[Quicksilver]

Sneaky Snake, on August 7th 2009, 07:38 PM, said:

80 degrees shouldn't hurt the laptop. My Macbook Pro hits 90 degrees at times while under full CPU load. The CPU is designed to thermal throttle at 100 degrees, but in reality you probably won't see any damage until you went 110 + degrees. As long as you don't game for longer then a few hours I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Sneaky Snake, please don't post things like this, unless you want to be held accountable for the consequences. While 80 degrees celsius is a bit on the high side, anything bordering on 90 °C is definitely dangerous for your system--if you continue to run your machine for long periods of time at those temperatures, the thermal strain on the silicon will kill the machine, sooner or later (probably sooner).

The guys that overclock CPU and GPUs to temperatures at or around 85 C plan on replacing those units after they burn out in 12-18 months. They can do that because the parts they're abusing are cheap and easily replaceable--a C2Q Q8400 goes for about $160, and a Geforce 9800 GTX+ runs about $100.

The same is not the case for the components soldered to your MacBook or MacBook Pro's motherboard. If that goes out, you may as well buy a whole new system, because the repair cost will be exorbitant.

----------

That said, you're right--elevating the back end of the system to get some airflow under the case works. If the system is old (or you think that it may have inhaled some debris), opening up the system to blow out accumulated particulate isn't a bad idea. However, make sure that you're confident in your abilities, have the proper tools, and back up your data. If you ruin your Mac, it's your own fault.

[OsgoodShepard]

Too bad they are called laptops. They are not. The price we pay for 'laptops' as good or better than a desktop is 'heat'. You need to control the heat produced to extend the life of your MacBook and be cautious of over using stressing program on the computer like video intensive games. A better fan control helps but a notebook cooler is better. I use the low tech and cheap Thermapack pad which absorbed excess heat quite well and does not require a bulky fan unit and extra plugin. I also use a padded laptop board. And in any case. do not put a notebook directly in your lap without protection. The link between laptop heat and fertility loss is real. Protect your gonads as well as your Mac.

[the Battle Cat]

OsgoodShepard, on August 8th 2009, 08:57 AM, said:

Protect your gonads as well as your Mac.

Why ... that's signature material.

[Quicksilver]

the Battle Cat, on August 8th 2009, 02:11 PM, said:

Why ... that's signature material.

And what would you call such a device? The iNut? Fireballs? Frosty Dong?

[the Battle Cat]

Quicksilver, on August 8th 2009, 03:01 PM, said:

And what would you call such a device? The iNut? Fireballs? Frosty Dong?

I take it you are referring respectively to myself, Frigidman and Frost. Hmmm... I might have to damage you for that, if it weren't so true.

[Sneaky Snake]

Quicksilver, on August 7th 2009, 10:50 PM, said:

Sneaky Snake, please don't post things like this, unless you want to be held accountable for the consequences. While 80 degrees celsius is a bit on the high side, anything bordering on 90 °C is definitely dangerous for your system--if you continue to run your machine for long periods of time at those temperatures, the thermal strain on the silicon will kill the machine, sooner or later (probably sooner).

I fully stand behind what I said - as long as he's only gaming with those temps, assuming he doesn't game for longer then a few hours. However if your were to start Folding@Home or something similar with those temps then I would definitely try to lower them immediately. Laptop components are designed for higher temps then their desktop counterparts.

Generally when overclocking it isn't the temps that kill you. My homebuild has seen some large overclocks and with a decent cooler the temps remain very manageable. My E2160 that I used to have, had an 78% OC on it (3.2 GHz on a 1.8 GHz CPU) and my max temp was 63 degrees during an intel burn test, which is designed to totally max the CPU beyond what any application will do. My current CPU in my sig is a 2.8 GHz chip i have at 4 GHz, the max load temp while folding is 52 degrees. Its generally voltage that kills your components.

That aside however I would not recommend any overclocking on a laptop for beginners, since they already run hot enough without any added strain. I'm curious though, what did you use to overclock your CPU on your MBP?

[Quicksilver]

Sneaky Snake, on August 8th 2009, 06:18 PM, said:

I fully stand behind what I said - as long as he's only gaming with those temps, assuming he doesn't game for longer then a few hours. However if your were to start Folding@Home or something similar with those temps then I would definitely try to lower them immediately. Laptop components are designed for higher temps then their desktop counterparts.

Generally when overclocking it isn't the temps that kill you. My homebuild has seen some large overclocks and with a decent cooler the temps remain very manageable. My E2160 that I used to have, had an 78% OC on it (3.2 GHz on a 1.8 GHz CPU) and my max temp was 63 degrees during an intel burn test, which is designed to totally max the CPU beyond what any application will do. My current CPU in my sig is a 2.8 GHz chip i have at 4 GHz, the max load temp while folding is 52 degrees. Its generally voltage that kills your components.

That aside however I would not recommend any overclocking on a laptop since they already run hot enough without any added strain. I'm curious though, what did you use to overclock your CPU on your MBP?

Ugh. Once again, you've managed to confirm my opinion of you. You are aware that you're telling a UIUC ECE grad to shove it, right?

Anyway, the unibody MacBook Pro breaks with Apple tradition, utilizing nVidia most popular reference design (MCP79) instead of Intel's. Therefore, a large (relatively speaking) chunk of nVidia's System Tools' functionality works with this particular MacBook Pro right out of the box.

[Sneaky Snake]

Quicksilver, on August 8th 2009, 11:28 PM, said:

Ugh. Once again, you've managed to confirm my opinion of you. You are aware that you're telling a UIUC ECE grad to shove it, right?

I'm not telling you to "shove it", I respect your opinion and what your saying is correct. I am just saying that 80 + degree temps aren't uncommon in laptops and won't really hurt you when your only gaming for a few hours semi-daily, and shouldn't warrant a tech visit

[teflon]

SS is partly right.
The only reason why NV's 8 series and certain 9 series mobile chips are failing left right and centre is because they manufactured them badly. Im not 100% on the facts of the matter, but because notebooks have different usage patterns to desktops, mobile parts are rated for higher temperatures, and use higher quality compounds. In this instance, NV are cutting corners and have paid the price because a lot of their chips are failing.

Not that this really has any bearing. pvt has intel's chipset and even if he's running at 80ºC semi-regularly, it shouldn't cause any lasting harm to the machine unless its defective, in which case it should probably have failed within the warranty period.
Its when its at 85ºC and above that you should stat getting worried. At those temps the heat is going to spread, gradually it will affect the HDD and possibly start warping the case over longish periods of time.

[Quicksilver]

teflon, on August 9th 2009, 08:59 AM, said:

SS is partly right.
The only reason why NV's 8 series and certain 9 series mobile chips are failing left right and centre is because they manufactured them badly. Im not 100% on the facts of the matter, but because notebooks have different usage patterns to desktops, mobile parts are rated for higher temperatures, and use higher quality compounds. In this instance, NV are cutting corners and have paid the price because a lot of their chips are failing.

Not that this really has any bearing. pvt has intel's chipset and even if he's running at 80ºC semi-regularly, it shouldn't cause any lasting harm to the machine unless its defective, in which case it should probably have failed within the warranty period.
Its when its at 85ºC and above that you should stat getting worried. At those temps the heat is going to spread, gradually it will affect the HDD and possibly start warping the case over longish periods of time.

Sneaky Snake was dismissing 90 °C+ temperatures as nothing, if you recall.

Mobile parts are NOT rated for higher temperatures. Families of ICs are fabricated with the same high-k metal gate processes.

The 8400M/8600M (some suspect the G92/G94 as well) bump-crack fault is a serious matter, but excessive heat made the situation so much worse. When the warranty for my old Santa Rosa MacBook Pro ran out and I decided to sell the thing, it only took ~40 hours at 85-90 °C to destroy the GPU and qualify me for a free replacement motherboard under nVidia's recall conditions.

For what it's worth, I consider 82 °C surface temperature to be the absolute maximum safe temperature for any sustained CPU/GPU usage. As you push your system clocks beyond their nominal values and you start dissipating more power, you'll need to lower that temperature further and further to ensure that the temperature differential throughout the chip isn't tearing the thing apart.

For 9600M/8600M-powered MacBook Pros: 85 °C is fine for a little while every day, but watch to be sure that you don't stay there constantly. Apple's idiotic SMC tables basically guarantee that you'll hit 85 °C ± 2 °C in Windows for 5-7 minutes before the fans slowly bring the system under control at 79 °C ± 3 °C under typical gaming loads.

[Sneaky Snake]

Quicksilver, on August 9th 2009, 11:58 AM, said:

Sneaky Snake was dismissing 90 °C+ temperatures as nothing, if you recall.

I said the following: "80 degrees shouldn't hurt the laptop. My Macbook Pro hits 90 degrees at times while under full CPU load"

Then I went on to talk about thermal throttling and how damage probably wouldn't occur unless you hit 110 - by damage I meant immediate damage. The 90 degrees that I hit was while the laptop was on the couch and folding for about 15 minutes. Upon seeing the temp I immediately shut down folding. I always stated that as long as he's only gaming with those temps for a few hours and not doing anything prolonged then he has nothing to worry about. I apologize for any confusion and I'll try to word it better.

Quicksilver is right 90 degrees (and high 80's for that matter) is damaging over time and should definitely be taken care of. What I was trying to say is that a spike to 90 degrees upon starting a game or something won't really damage your laptop. Like you said, if one were to sustain that temperature then there is cause for concern.

[A.Cole]

On a similar note, should I be worried since mine gets to the mid 70s whenever I am playing games (Pirates! for example)? I mean, obviously I shouldn't have it on my lap, but should I get worried about the heat damaging the computer itself?

[Quicksilver]

As long as your lap can take the heat, anything in the 70-80 C range should be fine.

[charmin]

Quicksilver, on August 9th 2009, 04:28 AM, said:

Ugh. Once again, you've managed to confirm my opinion of you. You are aware that you're telling a UIUC ECE grad to shove it, right?

Quickly, everybody e-peen with their qualifications!

[the Battle Cat]

charmin, on August 11th 2009, 01:23 AM, said:

Quickly, everybody e-peen with their qualifications!

I can lick my own butt.