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Shaken Baby game approved for app store


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#21 dojoboy

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 02:57 PM

View PostKaoro, on April 23rd 2009, 04:41 PM, said:

I don't have any desire to "play" it, but even if I did - is there any reason to think I'd then go find a real-life baby and shake it too? I'm pretty sure we can all agree that playing a FPS doesn't mean you're willing to walk out the door and blast people's heads off either.

We're not so sure about you?  ;)

The issue is desensitizing young people to violence, not the legality.  So, when they view it in the real world they do not react appropriately.  Again, the issue is access by adolescents, not adults.

As a simple example, I'm a wrestling coach (involved in the sport for nearly 20 years).  Between classes, the students tussle in the hallway - just expected behavior from boys.  I rarely do more than say, "Be careful."  Another teacher, especially a female teacher, will give them detention.  Do they deserve a detention?  Maybe.  

When in public, you view a woman or man slap their 12-month old child.  

???
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#22 Kaoro

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 03:16 PM

View Postdojoboy, on April 23rd 2009, 02:57 PM, said:

We're not so sure about you?  ;)
:bleedingeyes:

You are right - I often forget how easy it is to influence kids. I still am not sure that it should be taken away completely. Maybe some age restrictions could be placed in the App store.
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#23 BenRoethig

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 05:41 PM

View Postteflon, on April 23rd 2009, 03:05 AM, said:

but the thing is that they block some really harmless apps and then let something ridiculously controversial like this through...
which means that the system is quite clearly broken and needs to be scrapped and remade with much clearer rules.


I agree.  They need an objective process based on clear rules, not how the particular reviewer is feeling that day.  If it meets certain criterial, it should be approved whether its Apple's cup of tea or not.  If it doesn't (like say...shaking children) it should not.

#24 the Battle Cat

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 05:56 PM

I'm sure the game has raised awareness of "shaken baby syndrome" to a lot of folks who haven't heard about it before and didn't know to be careful of it.  Far from causing any real harm, it just might even save a few lives.
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#25 alldaveallen

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 10:04 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on April 23rd 2009, 04:56 PM, said:

I'm sure the game has raised awareness of "shaken baby syndrome" to a lot of folks who haven't heard about it before and didn't know to be careful of it.  Far from causing any real harm, it just might even save a few lives.

Wow, I REALLY doubt that. I can only assume that you were kidding. Because I've noticed that on VERY RARE occasions you will choose to be, how shall I put it, facetious?

Speaking as a parent, I think the game is incredibly gross, and I'm totally with Dojoboy on this one.  The only difference in my overall moral outlook since I became a parent is that now I have a much harder time watching things where kids get hurt. But that doesn't mean other people shouldn't be able to watch/play that stuff if they want (obviously, as long as it's simulated).

I have always been and always will be an opponent of any kind of censorship, including "market censorship," by which I mean denial of distribution or retail opportunities for merchandise of questionable taste, as in Wal-mart refusing to sell certain movies and CDs and so on.  However, I do think an age restriction is generally a pretty good idea, especially with stuff like this.

#26 The Liberator

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 01:08 AM

View PostKaoro, on April 24th 2009, 07:16 AM, said:

…Maybe some age restrictions could be placed in the App store.

View Postalldaveallen, on April 24th 2009, 02:04 PM, said:

…However, I do think an age restriction is generally a pretty good idea, especially with stuff like this.
As you guys and some others have said, it is not necessarily that the game needs to be taken down again, but restrictions for ages in the form of ratings like at a video store or something like that needs to be done.

By the way, Apple apologises for 'deeply offensive' game.

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#27 the Battle Cat

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 08:11 AM

View Postalldaveallen, on April 23rd 2009, 09:04 PM, said:

Wow, I REALLY doubt that. I can only assume that you were kidding. Because I've noticed that on VERY RARE occasions you will choose to be, how shall I put it, facetious?

Speaking as a parent, I think the game is incredibly gross, and I'm totally with Dojoboy on this one.  The only difference in my overall moral outlook since I became a parent is that now I have a much harder time watching things where kids get hurt. But that doesn't mean other people shouldn't be able to watch/play that stuff if they want (obviously, as long as it's simulated).

I have always been and always will be an opponent of any kind of censorship, including "market censorship," by which I mean denial of distribution or retail opportunities for merchandise of questionable taste, as in Wal-mart refusing to sell certain movies and CDs and so on.  However, I do think an age restriction is generally a pretty good idea, especially with stuff like this.
I wasn't kidding.  You have to learn about shaken baby syndrome somewhere.  I didn't hear about it from a parent, or a parenting class, or in school or on educational TV.  Some guy was joking about it and I asked him what it was.
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#28 Greg Grant

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 03:11 PM

I think what this app says more than about screening processes is that Apple clearly needs a ratings system so parents can pre-screen and lock out content.

Shaking photos of babies to make it stop crying is dark humor, much in the same a lot of edgier websites post 9/11 approached the event with humor in the "Too soon" zone, like something awful. I'll admit, I laugh at things I shouldn't and part of the humor is inappropriateness. Again would I download this app myself? Nah. Would I laugh had someone shown me? Possibly, although I'd never of been one to show that one off. After art school, its almost impossible really shock me. I stand on the side of Voltarianistic views on expression "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death for your right to say it." as history shows when you start limiting speech, it becomes much easier to pull away from civil liberties.

Dojoboy, I hope you're not feeling picked on by this thread but the concerned parent thing does mean you have the best interests for your child in mind. Its just there's a more democratic solution that works for both parties.
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#29 Rev-O

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 06:04 PM

View PostGreg Gant, on April 24th 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

Shaking photos of babies to make it stop crying is dark humor, much in the same a lot of edgier websites post 9/11 approached the event with humor in the "Too soon" zone, like something awful. I'll admit, I laugh at things I shouldn't and part of the humor is inappropriateness.

I agree wholeheartedly! I think an app of Klansmen lynching african-americans would be dark humor as well, as would an incredibly darkly humorous app hat involved wife beating (provided she didn't listen)!
The humor of these would be so inappropriate, but the inappropriateness would make them so much funnier!
Oh, I forgot the "kill a gay guy" app... that would be a laugh riot! And maybe the Auschwitz Simulator! Giggles galore!

Okay, so those aren't apples to apples comparisons, but the comparos serve the purpose of showing that you've got to draw the line somewhere. You'd draw the line after killing infants as amusement. So maybe you don't implicitly approve of infanticide, but you'd draw the line after baby killing to preserve a sense of freedom of expression or some such.
I would draw the line well before it. Too bad. Am I jamming my parental values down someone else's throat? You betcha. Won't apologize because I just don't care. The app is effed up.

[edit: this is a place saver edit, because once I simmer down a bit, I'll edit this.]

#30 Greg Grant

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 06:41 PM

Oh c'mon, you never laughed at something that wasn't appropriate? Never made a joke that wasn't in good taste? I just don't buy it. Either that or you're the most hyper conservative person I've ever had the pleasure to engage in some format of conversation with.

A good deal of great standup comedy is derived inappropriateness of it all and there's plenty of TV shows like South Park, Dave Chapelle, Family Guy and other recent TV shows, all of which made jokes pretty much of everything you just listed. Maybe you are but I doubt you're offended by any of those sources. Its the videogame double standard as aforementioned. Step back from the keyboard, have a breather and think about it. No one is forcing anyone to download a poorly done baby shaking app, and I actually happen to be in favor of the ability to filter content so you can go about your day not worrying about infantile humor (Yup, I went there...) on your iPhone/Touch .  :P
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#31 Eric5h5

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 07:38 PM

I would like to take this opportunity to point out the fact that all my games are, and will forever remain, 100% baby-free, shaken or otherwise.  Thank you.

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#32 the Battle Cat

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 09:35 AM

View PostEric5h5, on April 24th 2009, 06:38 PM, said:

I would like to take this opportunity to point out the fact that all my games are, and will forever remain, 100% baby-free, shaken or otherwise.  Thank you.

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One of your games involves blowing up cute little harmless magical flying pink ponies with a rocket launcher.  Their only defense is to throw candy at you.
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#33 Eric5h5

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 10:18 AM

Yes, but they are adult flying ponies.  No babies.

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#34 Rev-O

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 12:07 PM

View PostGreg Gant, on April 24th 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

Oh c'mon, you never laughed at something that wasn't appropriate? Never made a joke that wasn't in good taste? I just don't buy it. Either that or you're the most hyper conservative person I've ever had the pleasure to engage in some format of conversation with.

A good deal of great standup comedy is derived inappropriateness of it all and there's plenty of TV shows like South Park, Dave Chapelle, Family Guy and other recent TV shows, all of which made jokes pretty much of everything you just listed. Maybe you are but I doubt you're offended by any of those sources. Its the videogame double standard as aforementioned. Step back from the keyboard, have a breather and think about it. No one is forcing anyone to download a poorly done baby shaking app, and I actually happen to be in favor of the ability to filter content so you can go about your day not worrying about infantile humor (Yup, I went there...) on your iPhone/Touch .  :P

I'll admit I was being hyperbolic in my post ;)
Oh yes, I've laughed at many great inappropriate things. As a general rule too many people are offended by too much stuff. A lot of stuff in life needs to be faced with a laugh and a lot of people in life need to be able to laugh at themselves.  But that doesn't mean that everything inappropriate is funny to me, or that as levels of inappropriateness increases that the level of humor increases. Some stuff I just find sad, tasteless, and worrisome. And that's pretty much the category I put the shaken baby app.

I'm not the type of person who would ever legislate morality. While I'm glad to see the shaken baby app gone, I shudder at the thought of the government decreeing that thou shalt not make shaken baby apps. But the "no one is forcing you to download the app" argument breaks down at a point. I believe that someone could hypothetically create an app too horrendous to be allowed. So at that point the discussion becomes on where on the sliding scale do we draw the line. Clearly there exist legal limits to freedom of expression, video games are no different. Not a big fan of censorship, but also not a big fan of telling Apple/Walmart/Whoever what content they have to carry in order to avoid censorship. Both are trampling on freedoms.

Anyways, I agree Apple should have a rating system or a filter, but it's entirely up to Apple. It's their device, they have every right to control the content that goes on to it and they can be as heavy handed or as lenient as they want.

View Postthe Battle Cat, on April 25th 2009, 09:35 AM, said:

One of your games involves blowing up cute little harmless magical flying pink ponies with a rocket launcher.  Their only defense is to throw candy at you.
Ever been hit by candy thrown by a pony? It hurts! Bastard ponies have it coming, and if a rocket launcher happens to be involved... well, who am I to say no? :)

#35 dojoboy

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 03:44 PM

View PostGreg Gant, on April 24th 2009, 05:11 PM, said:

Dojoboy, I hope you're not feeling picked on by this thread but the concerned parent thing does mean you have the best interests for your child in mind. Its just there's a more democratic solution that works for both parties.

No, not at all Greg.  This is all good.
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