[jgwdoc]

Nice to see a (more or less) cutting edge card in the MacPros. But what about the older machines? Is this going to be a replay of the 8800GT saga with an eventual 4870 for the older MacPros, or is that not likely? Opinions desired. Trying not to get my hopes up.

[Cain]

If you go to the Apple store they have the upgrade kit listed where it states:

Requires Mac Pro (Early 2009 with 1066MHz DDR3 memory) or Mac Pro (Early 2008 with 800MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM memory) with PCI Express 2.0 slot

So it will work with the Mac Pros released last year but not with the first generation Mac Pros.

[teflon]

well, there isnt a shift from 32-bit to 64-bit this time around, so the 4870 will work in the previous generation of MP for sure. Then it just depends on if ATI have put legacy support in their ROM (the issue last time round was with NV, whilst the ATI cards worked just fine).

So it comes down to if someone decides to sell it as an add on or not.

[jgwdoc]

teflon, on March 3rd 2009, 09:52 AM, said:

well, there isnt a shift from 32-bit to 64-bit this time around, so the 4870 will work in the previous generation of MP for sure. Then it just depends on if ATI have put legacy support in their ROM (the issue last time round was with NV, whilst the ATI cards worked just fine).

So it comes down to if someone decides to sell it as an add on or not.

Thanks teflon, that's what I was wondering about. It doesn't sound like it would be such a big deal for ATI to make it backwards compatible.

[Greg Gant]

I'll wait for non-gaming benches to come in but there's a good chance I'll get one if it makes motion render faster.

[Dark_Archon]

I wouldn't bet on compatibility with the 2006 Mac Pros, but I probably won't be replacing my graphics card again before I replace the whole machine a few years down the line so it doesn't really affect me.

[jgwdoc]

Dark_Archon, on March 3rd 2009, 06:21 PM, said:

I wouldn't bet on compatibility with the 2006 Mac Pros, but I probably won't be replacing my graphics card again before I replace the whole machine a few years down the line so it doesn't really affect me.

I had hoped that with a "top of the line" machine I could go on replacing the graphics card for more than 2 or 3 years. Otherwise, what's the point of getting a high end machine? If they become obsolete that quickly you might just as well buy a new iMac every 3 years.

[The Liberator]

I think that is not a bad cycle of using computers, although I guess that would become a tad costly if you are always buying a new Mac Pro.

Liberator.

[Dark_Archon]

jgwdoc, on March 3rd 2009, 11:16 PM, said:

I had hoped that with a "top of the line" machine I could go on replacing the graphics card for more than 2 or 3 years. Otherwise, what's the point of getting a high end machine? If they become obsolete that quickly you might just as well buy a new iMac every 3 years.

The 8800GT isn't exactly obsolete and the August 2006 Mac Pros with an 8800GT are still significantly beefier than the just released top of the line iMac.

[ltcommander.data]

Dark_Archon, on March 4th 2009, 01:52 AM, said:

The 8800GT isn't exactly obsolete and the August 2006 Mac Pros with an 8800GT are still significantly beefier than the just released top of the line iMac.

Well that's the thing. The reason Apple should offer a high-end or at least performance GPU option is that in 2 years they will still be relevant. The 8800GT was cost $279 when it was released and it just gets beaten now by the HD4850 in the iMac. The 512MB HD4870 is a great card, but at ATI's MSRP of $149 it's a replacement for the $129 HD2600XT that Apple sells in the mid-range rather than replacing the 8800GT. There is already a tweaked 55nm RV790 core coming to replace the HD4870 along with a 40nm shrink to replace the HD4830 and HD4850. (The 40nm seems to have problems at high-clock speeds which is why lower-end parts are coming first). In a year, the 512MB HD4870 will be decidedly low-end, especially with next-gen DX11 GPUs coming soon. Apple doesn't offer a high-end GPU anymore so things may not degrade as gracefully.

[gizmo]

I was checking out our good friend Rob's website today (Bare Feats) and saw this interesting snippit:

"Good news for owners of the "early 2008" Mac Pro, according to THIS PAGE on the Apple Store, the Radeon 4870 can be ordered in kit form for $349 (USD). One more thing. This card requires OS X 10.5.7. We've heard from a reliable source that it has successfully run on the first generation Mac Pro. We'll be giving that a test and report next week"

It will be interesting that news turns out to be true.

link: http://barefeats.com/nehal01.html

[jgwdoc]

gizmo, on March 4th 2009, 09:33 PM, said:

We've heard from a reliable source that it has successfully run on the first generation Mac Pro. We'll be giving that a test and report next week"

It will be interesting that news turns out to be true.

link: http://barefeats.com/nehal01.html

Now that's exciting. I still have one machine with a 1900XT and it would be nice to slip the 4870 in before the 1900XT dies its usual death.

[rob_ART]

jgwdoc, on March 5th 2009, 08:08 AM, said:

Now that's exciting. I still have one machine with a 1900XT and it would be nice to slip the 4870 in before the 1900XT dies its usual death.

To expand, we'll be receiving the 2.93GHz 8-core Mac Pro next Monday. The first thing I'm going to do is pull the Radeon HD 4870 and try it in the first gen Mac Pro. I'll give you guys the news as soon as I have some.

[jgwdoc]

rob_ART, on March 5th 2009, 07:38 PM, said:

To expand, we'll be receiving the 2.93GHz 8-core Mac Pro next Monday. The first thing I'm going to do is pull the Radeon HD 4870 and try it in the first gen Mac Pro. I'll give you guys the news as soon as I have some.

Thanks rob_ART, you're a prince. Could you also get specific about model types--I have two pre-08 MacPros ( a model 1.1 and a 2.1) and I'm never sure what limitations apply to the later, but still pre-08 model.

[rob_ART]

He guys, after some puzzling delay, my 2.93 Mac Pro octo-core Nehalem ordered on March 3rd with Radeon HD 4870 is shipping today.

I also have a 2.26 Mac Pro octo-core Nehalem with GeForce GT 120 in the lab that I borrowed.

Hopefully by Monday I can share some 3D Game test results.

If any of you have a Nehalem with the 4870, I'd love to see your FPS for ET:QW or CoD4.

[ltcommander.data]

http://www.macworld....benchmarks.html

Macworld has benchmarks of the new iMac with the GT120, which you'd think would be similar to the GT120 in the Mac Pro. They actually found the old HD2600 Pro beating both the new GT120 and the GT130/8800GS in Call of Duty 4. Might be interesting to have more comparison between ATI and nVidia GPUs to see where else nVidia's drivers are lagging besides Core Image acceleration.

The GT120 is only about 15% faster than the HD2600Pro in Quake 4. I'm suspecting the GT120 won't be much of an upgrade over the HD2600XT, and the HD4870 would then be a recommended upgrade for the Mac Pro. Sadly Macworld didn't have the HD4850 BTO.

http://www.phoronix-...ite.com/?k=home

Oh, for rob_ART, if you are looking for more benchmarks, I've just noticed that Phoronix supports their Test Suite in OS X. Seems like a very comprehensive set of benchmarks with games, media encoding, data compression, program compilation, memory bandwidth, disk tests, etc. Might be something to look into.

[Greg Gant]

I'm really curious to see encoding tests where its big gobs of mathing to be done steady supply where the Nehalem 4 core stands against the previous 2008 8 core. I have a feeling the previous model will be better in some tasks that aren't as contingent upon memory bandwidth.

[rob_ART]

Just ran CoD4 on the 8-core 2.26GHz Nehalem with GeForce 120 GT (pipeline timedemo)
I get 22 fps at 1920x1200 (no AA)
and 20 fps at 1280x800 (4x AA)
and 36 fps at 1280x800 (no AA)
(No shadows, no smoke effects, max anisotropic, trilinear textures with high, high, high)

Pretty pathetic.
Compare the 1920x1200 result to
the iMac 3.08 with GeForce 8800 GS at 22 fps
and the Mac Pro 3.2 with GeForce 8800 GT at 48 fps or Radeon HD 3870 at 53 fps.

Glad I ordered my 2.93 with the Radeon HD 4870! It's scheduled to arrive Monday. More test results to come....

[Sneaky Snake]

rob_ART, on March 14th 2009, 11:23 AM, said:

Just ran CoD4 on the 8-core 2.26GHz Nehalem with GeForce 120 GT (pipeline timedemo)
I get 22 fps at 1920x1200 (no AA)
and 20 fps at 1280x800 (4x AA)
and 36 fps at 1280x800 (no AA)
(No shadows, no smoke effects, max anisotropic, trilinear textures with high, high, high)

Pretty pathetic.
Compare the 1920x1200 result to
the iMac 3.08 with GeForce 8800 GS at 22 fps
and the Mac Pro 3.2 with GeForce 8800 GT at 48 fps or Radeon HD 3870 at 53 fps.

Glad I ordered my 2.93 with the Radeon HD 4870! It's scheduled to arrive Monday. More test results to come....

After you test the 2.93 Mac Pro you should try out the 4870 in the dual 2.26, there's a guy in another thread trying to decide between dual 2.26 or single 2.93, both with 4870.

[rob_ART]

Sneaky Snake, on March 14th 2009, 09:56 AM, said:

After you test the 2.93 Mac Pro you should try out the 4870 in the dual 2.26, there's a guy in another thread trying to decide between dual 2.26 or single 2.93, both with 4870.

Oh yes. I'll be running the 4870 in the 2.26 and 2.93 as well as the 2008 3.2 and 2007 3.0.

Full results coming soon here as well as on BareFeats.com as early as Monday night.
I was hoping to have them much sooner but there was an unexplained delay on the 2.93 which has the CTO 4870.