[CJR]

Okay so this is sort of a rant, but I'm honestly looking for suggestions here...

I was playing Quake 4 which I've had for over a year but been unable to play until now - not having had an intel powerbook.

What is it with games now? The graphics get better, but the play gets worse.

More and more it seems they want a very linear story-line which you must follow. There's no decision making, it's just a series of beautifully rendered hoops to jump through!

I got frustrated with this in Splinter Cell, Warcraft III and now here. It's more like a choose-your-own adventure graphic novel.

This is the opposite of what I loved in Deus Ex. It had a great storyline, but each level you were pretty much dropped in an large area with an objective and then it was up to you. There were often many different solutions you could use to win.

Worse, the trend toward Squad-based games takes even some of the play out of your control. As I was playing tonight, a bone-head squad guy kept charging off into the obvious death. I thought, great now even the computer takes over some of the playing! Pretty soon I'll just be able to sit back and watch them move... maybe we could call those games "movies" or something catchy like that...

Finally, I reached a level where you're in a vehicle... but wait, you don't get to drive it! Its path is pre-determined. You just ride around and shoot. Now the game is reduced to a cross between a haunted-house fair-ride and "Duck-Shoot".

Does anyone know of a good Mac game that leaves some strategic thinking and freedom to the player rather than just run down this hallway, then turn right, click & jerk?

[Janichsan]

CJR, on February 25th 2009, 09:07 PM, said:

What is it with games now? The graphics get better, but the play gets worse.

More and more it seems they want a very linear story-line which you must follow. There's no decision making, it's just a series of beautifully rendered hoops to jump through!

Man, you have no idea how much I agree. I can give you an advice: when you already feel like this about Quake 4, stay the hell away from Call of Duty. It's even worse.

Unfortunately, there aren't really any newer FPS on the Mac in a similar vein as Deus Ex at the moment. Only Bioshock – which comes later this year for the Mac – offers a certain extent of freedom (although not as much as Deus Ex). Should you consider BootCamping, you could think about getting S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Far Cry 2 (although the latter one has some flaws). Crysis would also be an option, but only for the first half or so (then it becomes pretty linear).

[teflon]

unfortunately linear is here to stay.
Generally, FPS devs try to tell a specific story which relies on and tries to match hollywood. Because of that its all about dropping you in set pieces and then letting the AI try and take you out from there.

But the rare few (Janichsan got all the ones I can think of too) venture into this kind of semi-freeform gameplay. Bioshock is still pretty linear, you just get to wander around as you want. STALKER is much better though because you can just explore around this huge world for ages before deciding to go and do some missions or follow the story. Which quite bizarrely would probably tend to push you to want to complete the story more than if it was on the rails.

it really all comes down to budget and development time. STALKER was stuck in dev hell, almost, because of its huge ambitions, whilst Bioshock took several long years to complete. Installments of CoD get bashed out very quickly because you only have a single path to follow.

[Frost]

I've gotta agree. I don't know if it's just me, but aside from some really good gems (that fortunately have been coming along at regular intervals), I find gameplay seems to be on a steady decline in most games. I don't think it's just linearity either, it's something else, though I can't quite put my finger on what. Lately I've been firing up a bunch of older games, and I'm surprised by, despite looking like absolute crap by modern standards, how absolutely FUN they are to play.

Like I said, I can't put my finger on what it is, but it's like with the eye candy and super-heavy computing, games have been somehow forgetting to make the player have fun while they play.

And then of course you have games that throw in stupid gimmicks to make themselves more "fun" or interactive, like Far Cry 2's malaria, which I found so stupid and annoying I stopped playing it.

[the Battle Cat]

CJR, on February 25th 2009, 12:07 PM, said:

Does anyone know of a good Mac game that leaves some strategic thinking and freedom to the player rather than just run down this hallway, then turn right, click & jerk?

Postal 2: Share the Pain. Get it, play it. It is one of the few games that gives you a nearly free reign on how you approach the game. The game takes place in a single city and although portions of the city open up after you accomplish some goals, it is very open ended. You can continue to play the game long long after all the goals are accomplished. The game has large elements of humorous social satire and enough carnage to sate even a violent no-neck like myself. It is a must have FPS and it still gets me going after having played it for a number of years. Like I said, you will probably play the game long after it is officially over, but try it again with some of the very fun and inventive cheat codes that are unlocked after you complete the game once.

[The Liberator]

The only problem with Postal 2 is that the gameplay is not as fun. Other than that, and you will be able to simulate waiting in a line, the game is great.

Liberator.

[AussieMacGamer]

Janichsan, on February 26th 2009, 07:29 AM, said:

Should you consider BootCamping, you could think about getting S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Far Cry 2 (although the latter one has some flaws).

Far Cry 2 is one of the worst games i have played in a long time, and in some disturbing way, also the most linear... maybye even more than Call of Duty 4.

[The Liberator]

Really, more linear that CoD, that is saying a lot, then again I haven't played Far Cry 2, have I?

Liberator.

[Nail]

If you like fast games, you could try openarena
http://www.openarena.ws/

very quake like (based on ioquake3) and free

[Janichsan]

the Battle Cat, on February 26th 2009, 02:27 AM, said:

Postal 2: Share the Pain. Get it, play it. It is one of the few games that gives you a nearly free reign on how you approach the game.

Yes, right. I second that (and completely forgot about it). It has a pretty special kind of humour, though, so that it might not be everyone's cup of tea.

AussieMacGamer, on February 26th 2009, 07:30 AM, said:

Far Cry 2 is one of the worst games i have played in a long time, and in some disturbing way, also the most linear... maybye even more than Call of Duty 4.

Far Cry 2 really seems to polarise: some like it, despite pointing out its flaws, other completely hate it. However, I really wouldn't call it linear in any way (except maybe in the succession of the missions, but that's the same for Deus Ex). You have a couple of choices how to solve certain missions and some decisions in the game affect the rest of the plot.

[Frost]

Janichsan, on February 26th 2009, 02:35 AM, said:

Far Cry 2 really seems to polarise: some like it, despite pointing out its flaws, other completely hate it. However, I really wouldn't call it linear in any way (except maybe in the succession of the missions, but that's the same for Deus Ex). You have a couple of choices how to solve certain missions and some decisions in the game affect the rest of the plot.

I was stoked for Far Cry 2 and really wanted to like it, but once I actually got ahold of it and played it...

Between the irritating malaria "feature", the guys standing in .50 cal machinegun fire and reacting as if they're being hit by mosquitos, and the highly annoying, highly frequent instances of killing a badguy whose gun was functioning perfectly, taking his gun, and having it explode in my hands...

Guh. The game could've been a hell of a lot of fun, but it just derails itself.

[AussieMacGamer]

I think i would have enjoyed it if i was mentally disabled. Even the gunplay was boring. Felt wack as. I found it easiest to just machete people to death.

What a horrible game

[CJR]

Janichsan, on February 25th 2009, 12:29 PM, said:

Man, you have no idea how much I agree. I can give you an advice: when you already feel like this about Quake 4, stay the hell away from Call of Duty. It's even worse.

Unfortunately, there aren't really any newer FPS on the Mac in a similar vein as Deus Ex at the moment. Only Bioshock – which comes later this year for the Mac – offers a certain extent of freedom (although not as much as Deus Ex). Should you consider BootCamping, you could think about getting S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Far Cry 2 (although the latter one has some flaws). Crysis would also be an option, but only for the first half or so (then it becomes pretty linear).

Thanks for everyone's response of this. I'll definitely check out some of the suggestions. I do have a couple of PCs for work so I could play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. on them.
Sadly I am concluding that Deus Ex was fairly unique in its scope.

For those not familiar with it... What was different about something like Deus Ex was that you'd get a level where, for example they'd drop you on Liberty Island with the objective of freeing hostages held in the statues head by terrorists. Beyond that you'd have free range. There were guards and such posted around the tower, as well as security cameras and booby-traps. You could get in via front entrances, rear entrance, the sewer system and inside take different routes, even the crawling through ventilation ducts. You could evade guards by stealth, use force, hack into security systems, and so on. Basically the entire scenario was scoped out and you could then solve it any number of ways.

Sadly I suspect Teflon is right - the problem lies in the fact that games like that are much more costly to produce, vs. forcing the player along a single path. It is true that a typical player would not see much of the work done in DX simply based on the choices they made. In fact there were entire optional levels based on player decision and 4 different endings.

I also suspect some of this might the result of games being ported from consoles, which tend to be simplistic, rather than real computer-based games.

Thanks for the help!

[PeopleLikeFrank]

CJR, on February 26th 2009, 12:53 PM, said:

Sadly I suspect Teflon is right - the problem lies in the fact that games like that are much more costly to produce, vs. forcing the player along a single path. It is true that a typical player would not see much of the work done in DX simply based on the choices they made. In fact there were entire optional levels based on player decision and 4 different endings.

I also suspect some of this might the result of games being ported from consoles, which tend to be simplistic, rather than real computer-based games.

Thanks for the help!

Yeah, as well as the greater investment involved in a less-linear game, there's also a distinct effort to 'streamline' games as they gain more mainstream appeal. Sometimes this is an honest improvement in UI, but more often it's either taking away choice in order not to scare people away by having to think (DX 2!), or removing obstacles to players smoothly advancing through the plot. The latter more or less tends to remove any fun challenge for the sake of holding the player by the hand and passing them through a bunch of scripted set pieces, with the exception of annoyingly difficult checkpoints to artificially extend a 7-hour game into a 10-hour one.

One of the best shooters I recently played for giving a bit of freedom was Crysis. The Warhead followup is a little better, as they keep the levels a little more open through the game.

STALKER is also an excellent one.

[PeopleLikeFrank]

Frost, on February 26th 2009, 04:08 AM, said:

I was stoked for Far Cry 2 and really wanted to like it, but once I actually got ahold of it and played it...

Between the irritating malaria "feature", the guys standing in .50 cal machinegun fire and reacting as if they're being hit by mosquitos, and the highly annoying, highly frequent instances of killing a badguy whose gun was functioning perfectly, taking his gun, and having it explode in my hands...

Guh. The game could've been a hell of a lot of fun, but it just derails itself.

Y'know I really wonder what it is with Ubisoft and these games that could have been awesome but weren't. Assassin's creed did free-roaming, running-climbing-jumping so well, and the exhilaration of your first assassination and escape was amazing. But then the combat was tedious, and the side-quests repetitive and insultingly simple.

[teflon]

Hopefully Assassin's Creed 2 is better. Theres two rumours going around ATM, first is revolutionary Paris, the second is Venice during its prime. Im more interested in the former, but the latter rumour mentions costume changes and disguises to help you blend in better etc. which could be cool. It would also tie in better with them putting a lot of effort into getting Altair's successor to be able to swim..

Anyway, gaming is kind of stuck in a rut at the moment. The only real advances that were going to see to the linear shooter is wider, more open set pieces for the player to do battle with the AI in. Hopefully AI will continue to improve along the lines of working as a team, flanking and exploring new tactics and just generally being more adaptable and believable.

as the battle spaces get bigger, the number of AIs increases and both your side and the other side increasingly tend to joust with each other with you able to sit back a little and take the initiative with a well placed grenade or something... When the AI isnt focussed solely on you unless youre the main threat. I got KZ2 today and its getting pretty close to that feeling at some points.. Well have to wait for the next generation of consoles to come along before this improves further, though, because theres only so much power to go around, and developers need to spread their games across more platforms (except exclusives) in order to get the funding and sales to carry on...

But a game in the style of Deus Ex (with levels created only for a single story line) wont happen again. Those kinds of games will get shoved into being open world, which is both better and worse. The polish wont be as good, but you have more freedom to tackle a mission how you want.

[nagromme]

CJR, on February 25th 2009, 03:07 PM, said:

Does anyone know of a good Mac game that leaves some strategic thinking and freedom to the player rather than just run down this hallway, then turn right, click & jerk?

Without a doubt--Quake Wars. You didn't mention the need for a plot

It can be played offline with bot forces, and has great freedom to experiment and try endless new tactics. The sequence of battles is scripted, but within each scenario (some indoors) you have lots of freedom. Having 10 different classes to choose from in each of about 40 different scenarios (divided into 12 massive "maps" in 4 "campaigns") helps a lot.

But the real creativity comes from human opponents/allies online, of course. It's not mindless deathmatching at all. If you haven't tried class-based team shooters, maybe now is the time!

And if you want story... QW doesn't have it. The Strogg have invaded Earth and the humans must fight back. That's about it. Still, I feel that QW is the best game I've ever bought.

Among linear shooters (a trend I too am tired of) Prey stands out for me. But it's shorter than Quake 4.