539 replies to this topic

[UmarOMC1]

Linux-user, on November 16th 2009, 08:01 AM, said:

Those games at GamersGate are only digital downloads. I only buy retail games. I want a nice box and a disc and manual, something I can place on my shelf. This gives the feeling of actually owning a product. When buying a downloadable version, I don't feel like I own the game. When I buy retail games, I can point my friends to the shelf which is full of games and I can say: "Look, those are my games." Maybe I'm getting old, but I really don't like digital distribution and I don't like games that reuire an internet connection. I just want to buy a game, install and play the game even when my router has exploded, which means I don't have an internet connection at that moment.

Digital download's not for me, either. Even if I want to install the game years later I don't want to assume blindly that a company will allow me access to it after going through the hurdles of supplying all the original purchasing information. Any new computer I get I can scrounge through a box or two, find and install a game. I experienced this when trying to get Pom Pom's SpaceTripper again for my new MacPro. I'd given my bro my MDD G4 and, sure, had it not been for the computer dying while in his possession, I could have copied it over to a USB drive, etc. Hence my dependence on the company to re-download it. The escrow company that had supplied the original download had been bought by another company and after a few back-and-forths with someone that worked at Pom Pom games, I was supplied with a download link. I also had to scour around for their directory for updates and thank God I had access because they no longer sell or officially support SpaceTripper since its re-release as downloadable content and being renamed Astro Tripper for the PS3 and PC only. Had I possession of a copy on disc? No hassle, save for finding the update.

[Sargiel]

Just to chip in I agree with regards Digital Downloads. I've not (yet!) had any problems - but if my HDD died I'd be screwed. I did put an external HDD on my letter to santa so I can get into a good routine of backups hopefully but still..

I'm currently waiting on physical releases of X3: TC & HOI: 3 as I really don't fancy buying digital unless there's no choice. VP must get tired of me asking questions I bought Europe Universalis 3 from them the other day and then started asking if the expansions were only digital or if they'd ever be a boxed version!  Probably there won't be for those but it's good to show interest.

I won't completely deprive myself as if it's a great game and no other option I'll buy - as I did for Jade Empire. But I have a definite preference that impacts my buying decisions.

[Tesseract]

iRolley, on December 5th 2009, 12:04 AM, said:

That might the problem. The fan "should" start and doesn't. So the chip overheats.

I guess I wasn't explicit enough... I know what it sounds like because it does crank up when the GPU is working hard. I don't ever get to play BioShock long enough for that to happen.

Quote

Get iStat Menus : http://www.islayer.c...pps/istatmenus/

Play until you get the freeze. Log in through ssh, kill the BioShock process and quickly check your GPU temperature.

That would be a great idea, except for the part where

Tesseract, on December 3rd 2009, 05:57 PM, said:

none of the temperature monitoring utilities out there (AFAICT) will tell me my GPU temperature.

Well, that and killing the BioShock process not working, though that could be worked around with a CLI temperature monitor if the sensor data was available.

BTW, I installed a fresh copy of 10.6 and the 10.6.2 combo updater onto a separate partition, and the problem still happens when booted from it. So it's definitely either hardware or an OS/driver bug.

[Tesseract]

Just got this email from Feral:

Quote

Dear Customer,

We are aware of the issue with the X1900XT and we have spoken to ATI for more information on the issue. It seems that the graphics card is hanging with numerous applications across the board and they believe this is all related to the current drivers available for this series.

From what I've heard they are working on an update, but i don't imagine this will be available until the next OS update (10.6.3). Considering 10.6.2 has just been release i don't realistically see Apple releasing this until early next year, although i could be wrong.

I'm sorry i don't have any better news for you at this time and hoe this issue isn't ruining your gaming experience too much.

[Janichsan]

Awesome moment today: I shot one of those doctor Leadhead splicer and instead of simply collapsing, he tilted forward while standing on one leg, did a whole pirouette(!) in that position like an ice skater* and then fell head first over a railing. That took maybe two seconds, but I laughed my ass off for the next five minutes.

Ragdoll physics is sometime hilarious.


* Like this:

[Camper-Hunter]

edddeduck, on 30 October 2009 - 04:24 AM, said:

The deactivated option is the only DX10 effect in the game which is not currently enabled. If in the future it is easy to get the effect working we can look at turning this option back on but for now it is always grey.

I was wondering if there's any news on this deactivated option?

[edddeduck]

Camper-Hunter, on 18 March 2010 - 03:55 AM, said:

I was wondering if there's any news on this deactivated option?

Nothing right now

Edwin

[UmarOMC1]

Camper-Hunter, on 18 March 2010 - 03:55 AM, said:

I was wondering if there's any news on this deactivated option?

If I'm ascertaining things correctly I'd wait for an update from Apple and/or AMD/ATI concerning new, DirectX10-congruent OpenGL features to their drivers. Or I have no idea what I'm talking about. Either way the game looks great and I'm not worrying about it.

[Janichsan]

UmarOMC1, on 20 March 2010 - 06:12 PM, said:

If I'm ascertaining things correctly I'd wait for an update from Apple and/or AMD/ATI concerning new, DirectX10-congruent OpenGL features to their drivers. Or I have no idea what I'm talking about. Either way the game looks great and I'm not worrying about it.

Wasn't there supposed to be a complete OpenGL 3.0 implementation in the upcoming OS X 10.6.3? Isn't that more or less DX10 equivalent?

[edddeduck]

Janichsan, on 22 March 2010 - 04:11 AM, said:

Wasn't there supposed to be a complete OpenGL 3.0 implementation in the upcoming OS X 10.6.3? Isn't that more or less DX10 equivalent?

You are correct that 10.6.3 will have better support for OpenGL 3.0, but 3.0 is should not be taken as 100% DX10 equivalent. Due to the different design philosophies behind them they never will have a 100% equivalency.  

Off back to work now

Edwin

[Sneaky Snake]

Any chance will see Bioshock for Mac on Steam ??

[Mister Mumbles]

How about all of Feral's catalog? I remember Tuncer mentioning a while back that he approached Feral at the time Mac Games Arcade came to be, and it sounded like they were looking for another online delivery option instead. I've been wondering whether that may have been Steam or if it was of an entirely different nature altogether.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

To be honest I'm more curious about Bioshock 2 coming to the Mac than Bioshock coming to steam. Especially since there's nothing AFAIK that you can enter into steam to prove you have bought it so you'd have to re-buy it through steam again to have it there if they do put it in there. But for those who haven't bought it yet that could be good but for some reason I don't think it'd support steamplay so you wouldn't be able to download it if you have already bought the PC (or Mac.. that's what I have =P) version on there. But yeah, Bioshock 2... I want it to come to the Mac.

[Wumpus]

Smoke_Tetsu, on 15 May 2010 - 09:42 PM, said:

But yeah, Bioshock 2... I want it to come to the Mac.

Ditto. I played Bioshock back in 2007. I'm not really into it coming to Steam, when its already out for Mac anyway. What's the point? It has no multiplayer or social aspect. Bioshock 2 on the other hand, would be good in that respect. Plus I haven't played Bioshock 2 yet

[teflon]

The main sticking point for Aspyr and Feral  is the whole SteamPlay thing. In order to be part of that, people that own the PC version of the game need to be able to play it on mac for free... That means that they need to get a new deal with the original publisher, though I'm not really sure what kind of deal that would end up being.

For newer upcoming games, it'd be easier to get such a deal, but again, the sticking point would be the money. Porting houses have to pay for the privilege of doing the port, so how would they divide up the cash between the two? Would it be handled by analysing the download stats? a PC-only downloader gets all the money to the originals, Mac-only downloader gets the money divided up as if it were retail, and a downloader of both versions gets it half and half?
And what about games where you can input the code from a retail box? If that all goes to the PC publisher, then all the people that exploit the loophole of buying a cheap retail box and getting the mac version for free, but play it on a mac would deprive them of the cash...

I'd be very very interested to know the terms of the Civ 4 deal that got Aspyr's (presumably) port on Steam for free. Perhaps it was a lump sum? Though I guess we'll never really know.

Of course, this could all be a moot point and we'll see Mac only versions of games appear on Steam.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

Wumpus, on 16 May 2010 - 06:54 AM, said:

Ditto. I played Bioshock back in 2007. I'm not really into it coming to Steam, when its already out for Mac anyway. What's the point? It has no multiplayer or social aspect. Bioshock 2 on the other hand, would be good in that respect. Plus I haven't played Bioshock 2 yet

I forgot to add "if you own either the mac or PC versions" since I happen to have the Mac version of Bioshock 1 already. So yeah, buying it again to have it in steam does not appeal to me especially since like you said it doesn't have any social aspect to it... so what would be the added value to someone like me? Achievements? That's not enough! Bioshock 2 on the other hand... yeah especially since it also has multiplayer and DLC. But of course I know being UE3 has to hurt its chances. I'm not too hopeful at this point that engine is ever coming to the Mac anymore.

BTW, with those games that have cd codes you can input it's just as likely that in a hypothetical steamplay situation that a person could enter in their Mac version cd-key and have given their money to the mac porting house.  Although it's generally cheaper to do it the other way. In the situations where both use the same keys they most likely used the same keys for both for multiplayer compatibility. That's probably why we don't see a lot of ports nowadays though... it's just not cost effective when both the porting house and the original publisher want their cuts which drives up the cost of the game when on the PC the game is most likely already in the bargain bin.

Although before you say it I did pay full price for recent ports such as SWTFU and Bioshock. Although the force unleashed was so short I kind of felt like it wasn't totally worth it.. but that's another story. So yeah I do support the porting houses efforts however it doesn't mean I have to like the situation. That's one reason why it was good that Valve did the porting of their games themselves because it pretty much bypasses that situation and they passed along the savings to their customers by having just one price and you download it for either platform.

[teflon]

Why does UE3 hurt the chances?
It's not like Bioshock 2 didn't use bits a pieces of UE3 woven into a crazy mish-mash that also included UE2.5, Havok a custom water and wave effects engine, I believe there was also a custom layer of physics they used for particle effects and tons of other custom code. Surely switching to a purer UE3 with Havok and custom water would make it an easier engine to run?

Not that it matters, because BS2 uses the same engine as BS1... MOOT!




Back to who gets the money, yes the hypothetical cd key from mac version (incidentally, BS1 nor BS2 is in this scheme on PC at the moment) would in theory give money to the porting house, but don't forget that there the prices are only so high on the retail side because the porting house has to pay a lump sum for the privilege of porting plus a cut of every sale. So whatever the case, the original publisher wins since they get at least as much as they would from a PC version of the game (bearing in mind that this is often a year or more after the original release date, and those games can be found for a few quid in bargain bins).

I'm just concerned about how the porting houses would be affected by signing up to steamplay. if they get a lump sum or reduced initial downpayment, then good for them, since it's good publicity for everyone involved to be on steam, but if they get peanuts, why would they sign up to it? It'd likely detract from their already rather small potential market...

[Sneaky Snake]

Biggest hurtle I see for Bioshock going to Steam is the price difference between the PC and Mac versions: $20 for the PC, and $50 for mac. I doubt they'll post 2 different games with different prices

[Smoke_Tetsu]

teflon, on 16 May 2010 - 11:36 AM, said:

Why does UE3 hurt the chances?
It's not like Bioshock 2 didn't use bits a pieces of UE3 woven into a crazy mish-mash that also included UE2.5, Havok a custom water and wave effects engine, I believe there was also a custom layer of physics they used for particle effects and tons of other custom code. Surely switching to a purer UE3 with Havok and custom water would make it an easier engine to run?

Not that it matters, because BS2 uses the same engine as BS1... MOOT!

Are you sure about that? For one thing just because it had some features similar to UE3 doesn't mean it used actual UE3 code. For example darkplaces (which powers nexuiz) is a modified quake 1 engine and has features like id tech 4 but that doesn't mean it uses id tech 4 code. So far no true UE3 game has come out for the Mac has it? That simple fact has to mean something. BTW they used to list Bioshock 2 on wikipedia as using UE3... but they've since changed it to 2.5. So I'm wrong about that. However if it did.. I kind of think it would hurt its chances considering no other UE3 game has managed to come out for the Mac not even the simplest ones. Not even the UDK available for independent games can produce mac versions. EIther way it'd be nice to hear some news about it (either Bioshock 2 or the UE3). So let's say it does use some actual UE3 code... I'm guessing it's not a significant enough amount to be held back by whatever is holding back the pure UE3.

[teflon]

But Bioshock 1 uses the same engine as Bioshock 2, so UE3 or not, it doesn't matter in the slightest. Feral already have a working port of the engine. If they wanted to do BS2, then they could. Whatever is holding back UE3 proper is completely irrelevant (and it's assuredly not code based by now).

And yes, I'm sure about the use of UE3. They started development on UE2.5, got to a certain point and decided to integrate Havok, saw what UE3 could do and bought a license (well before UE3 was a finished product) to integrate parts of the code into their engine hodge-podge engine. They also had a two man coding team working hard on water effects and water physics.