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FERAL is porting BIOSHOCK RELEASE MID2009


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#41 Janichsan

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 12:59 PM

View Postxcman22, on January 14th 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

The MacWorld article says it has been confirmed. In addition, there is an Editor's Note alerting readers that speculation used in the article has been removed, which suggests it's more then unofficial.
Unofficial in that way that Feral has neither released a press release nor actually officially announced and/or demoed the game in any way (as they did for Rome TW and Lego Batman).

It's sure Bioshock comes, it's just not really official, if you get my drift. It's a fine distinction.

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#42 Eric5h5

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:36 PM

View Postmattw, on January 14th 2009, 01:35 PM, said:

That would include the cost of a copy Windows, the time to install it and having to allow Windows access to the internet or spend time ringing Microsoft to jump through all the DRM and get it activated. Then there is the on going maintenance of a second operating system, security updates, driver updates patches etc. It is a lot of hassle just for a few extra games which is why some of us would rather wait for an OS X port.

Not to mention that when I'm gaming, it's often when I'm taking a break for a couple of hours when I'm working on stuff, and I do not want to go through the bother of getting everything set up the way I had it again.  (Also the reason why I usually sleep my computer instead of shutting it off.)

--Eric

#43 Quicksilver

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:52 PM

View Postteflon, on January 14th 2009, 11:15 AM, said:

as someone says every time you bring it up, its way more than 30 seconds. It is at least 2 minutes on either end. Heck, round that up to be 5 minutes.

You want a video of my machine booting in less than a minute?

View PostEric5h5, on January 14th 2009, 11:54 AM, said:

I'm laughing at you for repeatedly failing to understand why it's a lot more of a big deal than just "waiting 30 seconds for Windows to boot", which is why only a small (but overly vocal) minority of gamers using Macs will ever do it regularly.

--Eric

Actually, as far as Mac gamers go, you're in the minority.  IMG, for all intents and purposes, appears to be functioning as an echo chamber.  At the universities that I've attended (UIC and UIUC)--both of which have an ACM department (or equivalent)--the only gamers that didn't use a Bootcamp partition were playing World of Warcraft, exclusively.

View Postmattw, on January 14th 2009, 12:35 PM, said:

That would include the cost of a copy Windows, the time to install it and having to allow Windows access to the internet or spend time ringing Microsoft to jump through all the DRM and get it activated. Then there is the on going maintenance of a second operating system, security updates, driver updates patches etc. It is a lot of hassle just for a few extra games which is why some of us would rather wait for an OS X port.

The latter half of your sentence was spoken like someone who hasn't installed Windows ever.  As far as installations go, XP is more tedious than Vista or Windows 7 by a long shot, but once they're installed, running Windows update really isn't significantly more annoying than updating OS X from plain-vanilla 10.5 to 10.5.6 (although the actual process takes longer, thanks to the the fact that there aren't any "combo" updaters in the Windows world).  If you don't want to do things manually, you just set the system to do everything in the background.

Your complaints about updates and patches (in other words, maintenance) are interesting, but ultimately misguided.  The reason why OS X is easier to configure "off the hop" than Windows is because Apple controls the hardware and can bundle all of the appropriate drivers in with the OS.  When you install Windows, you get most of the essentials, but then you have to do a couple of manual installations to get your custom components working (in our case, Apple pretty much took care of that for us).

Where you're wrong is the implied tedium.  Once you run the Boot Camp disc and run Windows Update, you're pretty much done for good.  There are two exceptions:

1) You're not very familiar with computers, use Outlook and IE, and you have a tendency to click on everything you see--no matter how dubious. If that's the case, you'll have to constantly work to undo the damage that you're causing to your system.  That's where OS X has the advantage--since viruses really aren't targeted at Macs (yet), you can be all manner of stupid and get away with it.

2) You're a performance nut (like me).  In that case, you'll be constantly updating your audio and video drivers because you want the best possible performance you can wring out of your machine.  Why?  Here's the key: not because you have to, but because it's fun.  It's not a chore any longer--it's a hobby.  My MacBook Pro runs immensely faster on Windows than it does in OS X.  It doesn't mean that I dislike Windows' interface any less, but when performance is key, I'm in Windows.  I can't customize my Mac like I can in Windows--I know is sounds strange, but there you have it.

The last thing you said doesn't make sense at all.  Let me mention a few of the "extra games" that installing Windows gets you:

- The Half Life series
- The FEAR series
- The Splinter Cell series
- The Witcher
- Mirror's Edge
- The Titan Quest series
- The Longest Journey series
- Portal
- Team Fortress 2
- Left 4 Dead
- Gears of War
- Halo 2
- Max Payne 2
- Saints Row 2
- Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
- The original Homeworld
- Overlord
- The STALKER series
- Bioshock
- The Company of Heroes series
- The Crysis series
- Mass Effect (soon to be a series)
- Fallout 3
- Call of Duty: World at War
- Dead Space
- Defense Grid: The Awakening
- The Prince of Persia series
- Lost Planet: Extreme Condition
- The Grand Theft Auto series
- GRID
- Indigo Prophecy

Over the past two years, I've played all but one or two of games on this very Mac more than once.  Meanwhile . . . OS X has gotten a slow Call of Duty 4 port, and Spore.  Wheee.
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#44 Dark_Archon

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:56 PM

View PostQuicksilver, on January 14th 2009, 10:35 AM, said:

That was me, and I'm not repenting.  I'm laughing at you guys for being willing to wait two years for a bad OS X port because you're unwilling to wait 30 seconds for Windows to boot.
Bioshock is one of the games that is worth rebooting for, but I do need to point out that the reboot time isn't why rebooting is inconvenient.  Rebooting means closing everything I'm working on, completely halting my work flow. It simply isn't worth the bother if I only have an hour or so to kill.


Edit:
Other than Bioshock, in recent history, there has been The Witcher, X3: Terran Conflict, and Mass Effect. And of those three, I only found myself willing to reboot my machine for X3:TC and Mass Effect. If The Witcher was out for OS X (please ASPYR or Feral), I would pick it up in a second because I'd love to finish it, but it is a pain in the ass to reboot.

Forget Mac Gaming, gaming in general seems to be dying. Want an example of this? Look at Fallout 3. That is what passes for a good game now?
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#45 charmin

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 02:10 PM

Fallout 3 was good and you are wrong.

Someone Wrong said:

The Half Life series
- The FEAR series
- The Splinter Cell series
- The Witcher
- Mirror's Edge
- The Titan Quest series
- The Longest Journey series
- Portal
- Team Fortress 2
- Left 4 Dead
- Gears of War
- Halo 2
- Max Payne 2
- Saints Row 2
- Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
- The original Homeworld
- Overlord
- The STALKER series
- Bioshock
- The Company of Heroes series
- The Crysis series
- Mass Effect (soon to be a series)
- Fallout 3
- Call of Duty: World at War
- Dead Space
- Defense Grid: The Awakening
- The Prince of Persia series
- Lost Planet: Extreme Condition
- The Grand Theft Auto series
- GRID
- Indigo Prophecy

2 games in there worth playing. Don't be spammin'.
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#46 Eric5h5

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 02:12 PM

View PostQuicksilver, on January 14th 2009, 02:52 PM, said:

Actually, as far as Mac gamers go, you're in the minority.  IMG, for all intents and purposes, appears to be functioning as an echo chamber.

No, sorry, I'm talking about Mac users in general, not IMG members or anecdotal evidence from a university.  Bootcamp users are the minority for a reason; deal with it.  Most Mac gamers aren't hardcore; but then most gamers in general aren't hardcore.

--Eric

#47 nagromme

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 02:31 PM

View Postteflon, on January 14th 2009, 12:15 PM, said:

as someone says every time you bring it up, its way more than 30 seconds. It is at least 2 minutes on either end. Heck, round that up to be 5 minutes.

You might need to round that up to be 30 minutes: I don't fire up Windows all that often, and when I do, Microsoft and the usual anti-malware tools all clamor for updates or firewall alerts, popping up a zillion windows I have to answer, and downloading lord knows what, slowing Windows to a crawl until they finish their never-ending housekeeping. Throw in three reboots in a row, as I had to do this week just to install some Windows patches. And assume a long virus scan before AND after each step. (Cancel it or not? Convenience or good security habits? You could remove SOME of this hassle if you run no anti-malware apps.) So much for being able to play a game whenever you feel like it! It can become a big production, and people game LESS when gaming is harder--so I'd be paying less for my games on Windows... and playing them less too. No thanks.

View PostQuicksilver, on January 14th 2009, 10:35 AM, said:

That was me, and I'm not repenting.  I'm laughing at you guys for being willing to wait two years for a bad OS X port because you're unwilling to wait 30 seconds for Windows to boot.

Correction: we weren't "waiting"--we were playing OTHER games! :) The fun people have with Mac gaming may bother you, but it's still fun :) And, after two years, so is BioShock. So are many games from two years ago that you didn't play, if you were to try them today. (You would not, however, have bragging rights about playing them "first," I'll grant you.)

And as someone says every time, it's NOT just the time (be it 30 seconds or 30 minutes). It's also the storage space, the cost of the Windows license (which won't pay for itself in game pricing for some time), the extra effort (and time spent keeping informed) to keep TWO OS's running and patched instead of one, the change of OS habits and shortcuts back and forth, and the loss of all your Mac apps and data when you switch to gaming--all your bookmarks, your email setup, your IM apps--all the things you use to research and communicate ABOUT the games you play, to download add-ons, to edit inis, etc. You have to have a whole separate set of those apps for your gaming activities. Someone shares a mod link on this forum? I can't just drag it to my desktop for later, I have to email it to myself, reboot, go to webmail in Windows, check my mail, and THEN save the link. If someone IMs me a UT mod's ini tweak, I can't just do a Spotlight search to find the ini, fire up the text editor I like (TextWrangler) and paste the tweak, I have jump through hoops in Windows. It's like having two separate computers, only worse, because they can't network to each other when only one runs at a time!

And worse than ALL of that is the loss of whatever you were DOING on your Mac. Yesterday I had iTunes open (two windows) for a Trip Hop playlist I've been working on, iCal open to an upcoming event that needed a decision, my browser open to a REALbasic support forum topic I was referring to, ControllerMate open for experiments with my gamepad settings, Preview open displaying search results within some PDF documentation, VMWare running Windows XP so I could test both the Mac and PC versions fo my REALbasic work, REALbasic itself with two projects open to specific panes, TextWrangler where I was processing various code snippets with search-and-replace, EyeTV DVR which is set to auto-record certain programs by name, Calculator with a paper tape where I was adding up project hours, Folding@Home plus the InCrease monitoring app, and my iChat logged in to three services where friends and clients can reach me. I would have been running Mail as well, where I was composing en email about those project hours--except these days I do my emailing on my Air, sitting next to me.

To game, I don't have to quit anything except (sometimes) VMWare, which saves its state anyway. So I hopped into Quake Wars in seconds, had my fun, and everything was waiting for me immediately at the end of the match. Folding@Home pauses itself automatically for anything in my Games folder, the rest of the apps have minimal CPU usage when dormant, and I don't know or care whether there were any TV shows on then or not: EyeTV recorded them automatically if there were. And what if a client call comes in or a friend IMs to see if I'm free for dinner on Thursday? Since I don't use Boot Camp, I can quickly quit the game (or simply switch away from it, for some games), giving me access to all the my projects, calenders, etc. that I might need to answer whatever comes up.

By your Boot Camp method, I'd have to check the TV schedule before deciding to game (or risk losing a show), I'd have to shut off all my IM services, and make needless new documents to save my temporary TextWrangler snippets and Calculator tape log. And after gaming I'd have to fire up all those apps again. I'd have to remember which projects and web pages and  files I had open in each one. I'd have to re-arrange my windows again. I'd have to re-do my search in the PDF docs and find my place again, I'd have to find where I was in the code of my two REALbasic projects, I'd have to find where I was in the support thread I'd been reading, and I'd have to reload the snippets I was working with in TextWrangler. Calculator's paper tape would be gone, so I'd have to refer to the saved text from before and add from there. I'd have to re-open iCal to the meetup I was deciding whether to RSVP for. Hope I don't forget I was doing that! I'd have to find the ControllerMate page I'd been working with and re-open the two playlist windows I was shuffling around in iTunes. Etc. etc. And when that friend IMs me (assuming I bothered to run a Windows IM service), I'd have to reboot and interrupt the IM session to just to check my iCal!

Your "only 30 seconds" penalty is closer to the truth if you don't do much BUT game on your machine, or if you never want to game for less than hours at a stretch. But for those of us who use our computers for a whole range of tasks in our daily lives, rebooting is like having to pack your home and office into a moving van, and then get it all back out again. You COULD do it, but it's not a great option. All that hassle... and what's the incentive? To play certain games over others. But there's no shortage of games I want to play on my Mac--there are more than I have TIME for. I would have loved to play BioShock and Gears of War when they were knew. I loved the games I played instead, and had just as many hours of fun as if I were a Windows gamer. There are unquestionable reasons to game in Windows (or on a console for that matter) but the reasons not to outweigh them for me.

And the cost of my gaming Mac was zero: I play on the Mac I already use for other tasks (which I couldn't do as well, if at all, on Windows).

I'm glad Boot Camp is there for those that like that method. And it's nice to know the option is there if a game comes along that I can't live without. So is building your own PC. But desktop gaming without Windows is ALSO a very reasonable choice. Laugh all you like: your habits and choices aren't the one right way for everyone :)

And while you laugh, we'll STILL be having fun with our games--and BioShock will be among them :)

A lot of it I think comes down to getting used to your situation and deciding it's "not that bad." You've decided that rebooting hassle is "not that bad." Some of us have decided that playing other games instead of BioShock two years ago was "not that bad." Neither of us is wrong, nor needs to laugh at the other. But I will say, the time and productivity you lost "just rebooting" won't come back... and the fun we'll have playing Mac BioShock won't go away :)

#48 xcman22

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 02:50 PM

View PostJanichsan, on January 14th 2009, 11:59 AM, said:

Unofficial in that way that Feral has neither released a press release or actually nor actually officially announced and/or demoed the game in any way (as they did for Rome TW and Lego Batman).

It's sure Bioshock comes, it's just not really official, if you get my drift. It's a fine distinction.

Can't argue with that logic - your reasoning makes perfect sense to me.

#49 teflon

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:13 PM

I agree with the notion that it can be 'fun' to get windows running. I like tinkering, thats why there is barely any free space on my OSX menu bar, Ive got lots of custom icons etc. etc. But, I dont like having to reboot for patches to be applied. You can have Windows update automatically, but then it pesters you to restart, but you can just ignore them whilst youre playing. The video drivers arent part of the hobby, theyre a necessity, but at the same time, you can stick with whatever youve got until you feel the need to switch up to the latest and greatest...

as for that list of games, half of those are on consoles (some of them, such as racing games, are better on consoles anyway), half of them are 'series' when you only really want to play one (TLJ was good, Dreamfall bad), and half of them youve run around saying that its no good (GoW springs to mind).

I really hate how this 'discussion' pops up every 2 weeks somewhere.
Who cares? we all like games, and we like gaming. Instead of being negative about Feral porting Bioshock, we could eagerly anticipate it and look forward to seeing it on our platform of choice, because given a choice, I would choose OS X over Windows 100% of the time, and that is literally all that this boils down to.
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#50 nagromme

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:20 PM

View Postteflon, on January 14th 2009, 04:13 PM, said:

I agree with the notion that it can be 'fun' to get windows running.

Absolutely. There's real satisfaction for some (myself included... sometimes!) in wrestling a difficult system into giving good results. Just like it's fun for some to build a computer, fix a car, or tile their own bathroom. I can see the pleasure in all of the above, and I also can see why people would avoid them.

We don't put down people who choose to deal with Windows gaming--it's a valid choice. And nobody should be putting down those who choose NOT to.

As is often the case, there are three viewpoints:

1. Nobody should game in Windows.

2. Everybody should game in Windows.

3. Take your choice--I don't speak for everyone.

In this thread I see viewpoints 2 and 3. But 2 is hard to defend! Extremes--and assuming that your choice is best for everyone--always are.

#51 Dark_Archon

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:22 PM

View Postcharmin, on January 14th 2009, 03:10 PM, said:

Fallout 3 was good and you are wrong.
How was it good? What did they do well?

Was it the poorly written, uninteresting dialogue? I guess you've gotta give Bethesda a break, it is their first game with real dialogue.

What about the boring story and the lack of consequences for your actions and karma rating.

Was it the gameplay? That skating on ice feeling you get as your character walks sure is great. I also like how turning and aiming feels clumsy, unlike real shooters where the developers at least pay attention to the details of movement.

How about the shallowness of the world? There is no reference at all to any sort of farming or food production, or any sort of living at all really. And how high tech weapons are scattered all over the place from the beginning of the game on, with no feeling of scarcity.

What about how the game sets the level of the areas when you enter them for the first time? This makes supermutants ridiculously easy. They are much beefier and better armed than you They should be a difficult opponent when you are a moderate level and armed to the teeth.

There have been games that I've purchased and not finished, but Fallout 3 is the first game that I regret wasting money on.
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#52 Atticus

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:25 PM

Not to rain on everyone's parade, but I found Bioshock to be underwhelming, and probably the most overrated game of the past five years. Despite appearances, it's surprisingly shallow, probably to make the konsole kiddies happy.

By the end, I was maxed out on every conceivable item, weapon, and plasmid, and completely bored. Then came....the "boss fight."

Ugh.

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#53 nagromme

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:31 PM

It's like books or movies or music: one person won't always like what another does. Reviews lead me to think I will like BioShock :) Bad reviews and good reviews alike are all useful, so keep 'em coming!

#54 Janichsan

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 04:00 PM

View PostQuicksilver, on January 14th 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

You want a video of my machine booting in less than a minute?
Actually, as far as Mac gamers go, you're in the minority.  IMG, for all intents and purposes, appears to be functioning as an echo chamber.  At the universities that I've attended (UIC and UIUC)--both of which have an ACM department (or equivalent)--the only gamers that didn't use a Bootcamp partition were playing World of Warcraft, exclusively.
The latter half of your sentence was spoken like someone who hasn't ... blablablabla
Here we go... again.

Seriously, could we finally cut that crap instead of rehashing the same bloody discussion that we already had for what feels the millionth time? Just use the frigging forum search if you just have to read the arguments once more, why quite a lot of people don't want to bother with Bootcamp. It's all been said.

View Postcharmin, on January 14th 2009, 09:10 PM, said:

Fallout 3 was good and you are wrong.
There are people that beg to differ.

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#55 teflon

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 05:08 PM

I cant think of a single game which isnt over-rated. Halo 2 and 3 werent deserving of the adoration that they got (Halo 1, I feel, deserved it initially, but not quite the everlasting legacy of praise), GTA 4 is not the perfect game, etc. etc. etc.
Every big game release has its fans and its detractors.

Personally I found Bioshock to be a good game that struggled under the weight of its own ambition, which resulted in its combat being rather unwieldy, and suffering a bit for it. Equally, it was a bit on the long side, and (likely because of the aforementioned 5 minute+ reboot time) I gave up on it 70% of the way through, coming back to it a month later and finishing it off.
But despite all of that, I had fun.
Sure it wasnt perfect, and doesnt deserve all the praise it gets, but it had a good story, very flexible gameplay, and a great art direction and setting.

Your mileage may vary, but Im very glad that this game is being brought over to the Mac.

EDIT: and I just spotted QS's rebuttal to my time claim above.
Yeah, Id like to see you reboot in less than a minute, from the time you click restart to the time that you get the splash screen of, say, Gears of War up. To make it fair, you can have all of your apps closed in OSX, and turn off steam etc. etc. that you have in Windows.
And even if you do beat the 1 minute time mark, this means absolutely nothing. For one thing, I believe you have a non-standard HDD in there, whilst most people will have the 160Gb or 200Gb drive running at 5,400rpm. Then they will have differing amounts of slow down depending on how full their drive is/how its partitioned etc. etc. etc.
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#56 The Liberator

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 05:36 PM

View PostQuicksilver, on January 15th 2009, 02:35 AM, said:

That was me, and I'm not repenting.  I'm laughing at you guys for being willing to wait two years for a bad OS X port because you're unwilling to wait 30 seconds for Windows to boot.

On top of that, you'd better be prepared to buy a Mac Pro with that $150 (?!?!) 8800 GT--this game makes Call of Duty 4 look positively anemic in the system requirements department (informally, I'd say you can expect to see half your CoD 4 framerate).  To get the game running at 1440x900 in DX9 mode, I had to pull all kinds of tricks that you can't do in OS X (including a pretty enormous GPU overclock; from 375/500 to 650/750).  I haven't touched the Mac version of CoD 4, but if performance and feature set is roughly what I think it is, few Mac gamers are going to be playing Bioshock as it was intended to be played.
How do you know it will be a bad port? How do you know that it will run so terribly? If I am correct, Bioshock is older than CoD 4, and if you have read one of the threads on here, it is detailing that the fps on CoD 4 that is especially appearing with the 8xxx series of cards will be fixed (hopefully) in the near future.

When you were saying of having to over-clock the hardware, I assume that was for Bioshock. It is obvious that you would have to do that, if you were running hardware that was not good enough for the game the run properly.

Liberator.

P.S. I think you are being slightly melodramatic, and exaggerating the situation here. We will not know how Bioshock will run like, until Feral have done a large amount of tests, also as a note ET:QW is supposed to run pretty darn well on our hardware. If you want to say something reasonable, more logically sound, then say it, otherwise do not waste (at least my time), maybe even everyone else's'.

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#57 teflon

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 07:02 PM

CoD4 is more scalable than bioshock, by quite some way, despite being released 2-3 months later.
and he was running it on the same MBP as I am, with the 8600GT. On that I could just about struggle to get 1280x720 with medium to high settings... and that was hovering at the barely playable, if I remember correctly. Given that you lose a certain percentage in the porting process, unless you go over the code several times and optimise to an extreme (as happened with ETQW in order to get it playable on the X1600 cards).
So whilst he is being a bit melodramatic in several ways, Bioshock is definitely a more demanding game than CoD4, and its going to be quite a struggle for Feral to get a port out which doesnt lose much in the process. Having said that, I believe that they can manage it.
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#58 the Battle Cat

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 07:24 PM

View PostQuicksilver, on January 14th 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

but
Oh sure, that's easy for YOU to say!  Contrast something with something else all you want, it's not going to change the truth!  Why don't you come down here and live in the trenches with me and see how often you thrown your little conjunctions around.
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#59 Kaoro

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 07:32 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on January 14th 2009, 08:24 PM, said:

Oh sure, that's easy for YOU to say!  Contrast something with something else all you want, it's not going to change the truth!  Why don't you come down here and live in the trenches with me and see how often you thrown your little conjunctions around.
:lol: I'm not sure if I should find that funny or terrifying!  :lol:
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#60 jgwdoc

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 08:52 PM

View PostDark_Archon, on January 14th 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

How was it good? What did they do well?

Was it the poorly written, uninteresting dialogue? I guess you've gotta give Bethesda a break, it is their first game with real dialogue.

What about the boring story and the lack of consequences for your actions and karma rating.

Was it the gameplay? That skating on ice feeling you get as your character walks sure is great. I also like how turning and aiming feels clumsy, unlike real shooters where the developers at least pay attention to the details of movement.

How about the shallowness of the world? There is no reference at all to any sort of farming or food production, or any sort of living at all really. And how high tech weapons are scattered all over the place from the beginning of the game on, with no feeling of scarcity.

What about how the game sets the level of the areas when you enter them for the first time? This makes supermutants ridiculously easy. They are much beefier and better armed than you They should be a difficult opponent when you are a moderate level and armed to the teeth.

There have been games that I've purchased and not finished, but Fallout 3 is the first game that I regret wasting money on.

Well damn, DA. That pretty much does it for me. Hard to imagine a more scathing negative review, from my perspective. Always amusing to compare that with the comical ratings on the gaming sites.

View Postnagromme, on January 14th 2009, 02:31 PM, said:

It's like books or movies or music: one person won't always like what another does. Reviews lead me to think I will like BioShock :) Bad reviews and good reviews alike are all useful, so keep 'em coming!

Bioshock was interesting as a story,pretty well plotted (suspension of disbelief always required) visually arresting, and (at least for me) a real pleasure to play. Not perfect. But better than most games I've played in the last 5 years. A must buy,I would say.
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