231 replies to this topic

[charmin]

Dark_Archon, on January 12th 2009, 06:52 PM, said:

I tried that and it didn't work for me. It worked when I had to do that same thing for Server2k8 though, so I could have screwed something up.

Worked for me, but for some reason the first time I created the image it was 200MB (obviously didn't work). Second time it worked fine, and the install went without a hitch (normal install launched from Boot Camp Assistant).

[teflon]

BenRoethig, on January 14th 2009, 03:05 AM, said:

With the more traditional versions of windows, each window had its own space on the task bar.  Windows 7 still does that in same cases.

AS J'nathus says, all the windows from any open application are grouped together. So its not what you seem to be saying.
Its almost literally a carbon copy of how the dock works, except each open application indicates how many windows it has open, and you hover over the icons to see those open windows instead of using expose.

[BenRoethig]

J, on January 13th 2009, 10:28 PM, said:

In which cases does Windows 7 do this?  As far as I can tell, EVERYTHING is grouped.  Windows Explorer, Steam, Pidgin, FireFox, Skype, MSWord, iTunes, Internet Explorer . . .   A new icon will spawn when something not docked in your taskbar is launched, but it disappears after it's closed, which is very much like how the Dock in OS X works.

Not always, I've had several instances where the individual windows showed up on the taskbar rather than being grouped with different applications.  I've even had instances where some windows are grouped with the app while others show up classic style on the task bar.  It seems completely random in the way it does it.

[teflon]

can you give us any examples of apps which act like this?
from what Ive used, it hasnt happened, of course, things like the Control Panel and Preferences windows and the like can count like a new app. Perhaps youre using legacy support and that conflicts with the new designs? But my interest in Windows is primarily gaming and general experimenting, so youre probably using apps which Im not.

either way, it is not intended that this be the case and that it should work as J'nathus and I described. Simply, it is a kink in the beta which needs to be and will be worked out before final release.

[charmin]

New findings from the land of Windows 7.

My two favourite features so far are:

- It finds my bluetooth keyboard on the login screen. With Vista, I had to turn it off and on and then hammer a key for it to recognise.

- Localised themes. I am all about blue windows and pictures of the UK rotating every 30 minutes. Seriously.

Also, big downside:

- My Performance Index has dropped to 3.0. Apparently my RAM got faster when I wasn't looking, but my hard drive is now only worth 3.0 It used to be 5.something.

[Kaoro]

charmin, on January 14th 2009, 03:14 PM, said:

- My Performance Index has dropped to 3.0. Apparently my RAM got faster when I wasn't looking, but my hard drive is now only worth 3.0 It used to be 5.something.

I think there is something wrong with Apple's hard drive drivers under Windows 7. My MBP gets very high marks in everything, but gets a 2.9 in the Hard Drive score. Now this is a late-2008 MBP with a 7200rpm drive. Should be a little higher, no?

[J'nathus]

charmin, on January 14th 2009, 04:14 PM, said:

Also, big downside:

- My Performance Index has dropped to 3.0. Apparently my RAM got faster when I wasn't looking, but my hard drive is now only worth 3.0 It used to be 5.something.

I heard the super low hard drive ratings thing was a bug.  I had Windows 7 initially on my 320 GB slower drive and I got a 2.9 rating.  Now I have it on my 750 GB (not MUCH faster, but still faster) drive, and it rates as a 5.9. It's fun to see my experience index numbers are higher in some places than in Vista (which couldn't go higher than a 5.9 or 6 I heard).

Also, MAJOR WARNING!!!

If you copy ANY .mp3s to the Windows 7 drive, put them in the user "Music" folder, and let them play through Windows Media player, you must do this AFTER getting all patches / updates for Windows 7, or you will suffer the meta-data .mp3 loss problem.  Essentially some way that Media Player automatically updates the .mp3s with additional meta-data (something it is set to do by default) will lose 1-5 seconds off the start of your .mp3s.  That is a MAJOR bug and one that pisses me off.  A default action that destroys your data???   Is that not the very definition of Malware?  

In other news, I've installed a bunch of games and here's my results with the ones I've had time to run so far:
American McGee's Alice - flickering textures and mis-placed items on-screen (unplayable in my eyes), the game dates back to Win 98, so this isn't horrible.  

Black and White 2 - Played perfectly

Call of Duty 4 - Played perfectly

F.E.A.R. - Played perfectly - quits rather slowly with a windows "this application has not responding" error, which was a problem in Vista as well

Games left ot be tested are: Beyond Good and Evil, BioShock, Crysis, Crysis Warhead, Tomb Raider - Legend, Mass Effect (with the DLC), Medal of Honor Allied Assault, Midnigth Club II, Star Wars KotOR, No One Lives Forever, Rainbow Six Vegas, Rainbow Six Vegas 2, Tron 2.0, UT2004, UT3, URU Ages Beyond Myst.  

That list is just what I have / play / want to play anytime soon.  I'm waiting on 3 of them to download from Steam (hopefully overnight) and then I'll have a report tomorrow what did and didn't work.  If all of those work (and I doubt they will), then it can be assumed that a good number of games from recent years will also work.

I had 2 games that wouldn't play ball though . .   Grim Fandango (it was a long shot this would install and run anyway) and Myst V End of Ages (the developer had to release a patch for Vista, but it doesn't work in Windows 7).  I have more games than in this list, but nothing I can conceive of wanting to play in the near future.

[charmin]

I'm still trying to get HL2/Steam working. After some fiddling I got as far as the HL2 loading screen, but that's it so far. Rumour has it that the old Windows medicine, a restart, may be what I need, but I'll have to wait for 12 hours before I get a chance.

Edit: Typofail

[teflon]

for stuff that isnt working, are you trying compatibility mode?
and HL2 should work no problem, so yeah, try restarting.

[J'nathus]

teflon, on January 15th 2009, 07:04 AM, said:

for stuff that isnt working, are you trying compatibility mode?

Yes, I try Vista compatibility mode first, then Windows XP SP2.  If a game doesn't work or has problems, it appears that compatibility mode has no bearing on the resulting playing or not playing (at least on MY install of Windows 7).  I only have a few more games to test and I'll have a pretty big report to post.  Hopefully that's welcome information.

[jackdawsson]

It's certainly much appreciated & very "welcome information" here. Presumably ditto for a number of others (going by the rising number of thread views). I haven't the time to try WS 7 Beta, hence can't contribute anything useful, so I find all this stuff highly informative & intend to keep reading all further posts.

[charmin]

After finding out I had no audio, I installed the Bootcamp drivers.

Now I have no audio or keyboard.

Time to reinstall Windows.

[J'nathus]

First things first.  For those editorials I've read where they think that Windows 7 is essentially ready for sale / distribution . . .  YOU ARE WRONG!!!  (I do not refer to anyone here on the forums, just the tech sites I frequent)

Possibly some of my instability is due to the default video driver I let Windows install, and I won't use the updated driver that Windows Update offers, because if it's one thing I've learned over the years of using Windows you NEVER get Creative, ATI or nVidia drivers from Windows Update (unless you like hosing your machine).  

This is a dedicated PC.  My system specs are:
CPU: Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 GHz
Memory: 4 GB Corsair DDR2 800
Storage: C: 750 GB Seagate SATA D: 320 GB Seagate SATA
Video: GeForce 8800 GT 512 MB
Monitor: 20" Dell UltraSharp widescreen (1680x1050)
Speaker: Cambridge Soundworks 250D THX  . . . some of the best speakers you could ever connect to a computer

I am not usually a single-task man, and I've gotten used to the non-maximized approach that Apple sort of gets you accustomed to, so my Destkop tends to look a little something like the following:


Just like Vista, installed games are automatically added to the "Games Explorer."


However, a new addition for Windows 7 is that they are also added to the "Games" folder in the programs menu.



As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm rather anal about organizing my Programs menu, so none of the default game install folders remain.  I move the shortcut into the games folder and then delete the folder structure left by the default installer.  The only gotcha with this is when Windows automatically puts the game shortcut in there.  You can tell the Windows version from one that was installed by hovering your mouse over it.  If the shortcut has a path (i.e. c:\Program Files (x86)\ . . .) then that's your shortcut.  If the shortcut simply has the name pop up, then that's the one Windows puts there, which is also the one I prefer to leave in there.  The reason being that if I ever uninstall the game, Windows will do the house cleaning in that folder for me. ALTHOUGH, with the taskbar the way it is, the start menu / programs menu begins to seem a bit superfluous.  

When I tried to install Steam it wouldn't install.  By default, it wants to go into C:\Program Files\, and Windows will feed it the C:\Program Files (x86) because it is a 32 bit app, HOWEVER the Steam installer doesn't like the characters in there.  Since the Windows 7 beta is so very new, I haven't been able to find any good information on how to correct this, so I just installed to C:\Steam\ and there has been no problems since.

Blue Screens I got my first one today, but it disappeared before I could make note of any of the verbiage contained in it.  When the computer restarted AVG was malfunctioning.  I tried to do a repair install, which wouldn't work.  I tried to uninstall, which wouldn't work.  After another reboot, I got another blue screen and then was presented with another AVG error.  At that time, I removed AVG from the startup processes.  Given that I can't uninstall it, I just tried to delete everything in the AVG folder.  For whatever reason, I am unable to clear one .dll file (even in Safe Mode), but I feel certain that AVG is no longer a problem.

Crysis installed .net 1.1, which I later uninstalled.  Windows 7 comes with 3.5 SP1 Beta 1 (I think that's the exact version), so blowing past the install a second time has not seen a return of it.  

- - - Games - - -
(small note, most games are played for only 5-10 minutes with as many transitions and effects as I can figure to try before I'm satisfied that the games are issue free)

Games that ran perfect (no glitches or noticeable problems to speak of): Medal of Honor, No One Lives Forever, Tron 2.0, Unreal Tournament 2004, URU Ages Beyond Myst.

Beyond Good and Evil: Runs better than in Vista (Vista had audio / video sync issues).  There's still some flickering textures in the HUD, otherwise it runs very well considering its age

BioShock: Opening videos play audio, but BioShock isn't using a full UE3 engine (more on that later).  Otherwise BioShock runs find / perfect.  I would venture a guess that it runs better than in Vista, but I didn't do framerate comparisons to verify.

Crysis: Pretty much the same as Vista in performance.  Like BioShock, it may be a bit faster, but I'll have to get further into the game to know for sure.  No graphical glitches or issues thus far. I only put a few things on high....  models, shaders and water... everything else is on Medium

Mass Effect: Some graphical incongruities (textures set to "Ultra," but wall textures looked muddy.  Changing area seemed to fix it.  This game was known for slow loading / popping textures.  Dancing back and forth between a few areas saw the problem eliminated and reloading I didn't see it again, so I'm assuming it's a "these settings won't be applied until you restart the game" although I don't recall seeing that kind of a warning.

Midnight Club II: Front end loads, but the game won't run

Myst IV: Runs fine, although the 4:3 resolutions stretch on my 16:10 monitor at 640x480 and 1024x768.  800x600  has proper vertical letter boxing. That's probably something that would be sorted with a newer video driver.

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic: Won't run at all.  I believe this one ran in Vista, but neither Vista or XP compatibility mode allow it to run.  There is no hint of the problem, it just disappears.

Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2: 95+% fine, intro movies have no sound and some in-game movies have no audio, otherwise they both play and run fine.  The first game was a bit hard on system hardware and remains so, although I can get away with higher resolutions than I could in Vista.

Unreal Tournament 3: Same intro movie issue...  I'm not sure if it's something to do with the engine or some choice Epic made, but either way I see it in 3 out of the 5 UE3 based titles I run. Otherwise, this game runs perfectly and perfectly smooth at full native resolution with all the features cranked up to a satisfying (not necessarily maximum) level.

That's all my gaming impressions so far.  I haven't thrown too many apps at Windows 7 aside from Steam, MS Office 2007, Pidgin (multi IM client), Firefox, Nero and the Skype beta. All behave predictably, so nothing to report there aside from the issues with AVG.

I've had enough issues and problems to definitely place this well into the beta status and I've sent a good amount of feedback relative to these issues.  As with many things your mileage may vary.  I will say that there are some games in my list that I could never get running right in Boot Camp, so beware that my list may not expressly indicate the experience you can expect.

[charmin]

Reinstalled Windows. Got keyboard back. Thanks to Realtek website, now have audio as well. Another day ends, and I'm further from testing HL2 than I was 24 hours ago. Such is the way of Windows.

J'nathus, I had no problems installing Steam (default settings, 64 bit Win), but usage has been a little 'off'. I've had several random errors, and I couldn't actually get into a game until a combination of half a dozen program quits and restarts, then certain updates seemed to trigger and stuff started working.

[teflon]

both of what you two are doing/ going through is great (well, not for you, but for documenting it).
Personally Im just playing STALKER at the moment, and can say that it works great. I hadnt played it for a while, but performance is great for me with the same settings that I had in XP, so Im quite happy there.

Steam installed fine for me too, as it did for charmin, but I havent really bothered with it yet, as the only games I have in it are from the Orange Box (and Psychonauts). Ill install something to it tomorrow, and give it a quick run.

Good to hear that BG&E runs well, Ive had it for a while and been meaning to play it, but havent got round to it really...

[J'nathus]

teflon, on January 15th 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

Good to hear that BG&E runs well, Ive had it for a while and been meaning to play it, but havent got round to it really...

On that point, I did say mileage may vary, and BG&E had issues in Bootcamp that I didn't have on my PC (laptop drivers always add a bit of fun to the party).  Although I haven't tried lately, so I'm not sure.  Just CY'ing my A.   

Also, if you like Psychonauts, then I think BG&E will be something right up your alley.

[teflon]

Oh I played it for a good hour or two and then got distracted by something flashier probably.
I do remember that there was a fair bit of graphical glitching with it that added slightly to me stopping with it.

I didnt finish Psychonauts either, had to delete it because I ran out of space and couldnt move it to an external (curse you steam!!!).

both of them warrant a revisit this summer.

[J'nathus]

I now have a Windows 7 64-bit BootCamp install on my 2.4 GHz, 2 GB, 8600M GT MacBook Pro.

There's a handy dandy guide here!

Also, after booting into Windows, you'll have to use the Option key at bootup until you install the BootCamp stuff.  

In short order:
-Run Boot Camp Assistant
-Reboot and run Windows Installer
-Remove the Windows install disc on the first installer reboot
-After the install is complete, run the BootCamp install from your Leopard disc
-Run Windows Updates (primarily to get the updated video card driver)
-Google for the RealTek 2.14 drivers to get the audio to work (I acquired mine at GURU3D.com)

Everything should run smoothly after that.

Don't forget to do all windows updates before allowing Windows 7 to see any of your music files, as there's a patch that fixes the destructive .mp3 metadata editing that Windows Media Player does by default.

[Kaoro]

The Windows driver scene has always confused me. So you're saying you can install other drivers on top of Apple's? Shouldn't that mess something up? My audio works but it has little pop noises in it every so often...

[teflon]

yes you can. But that is because Apple's drivers are a mixture of custom drivers for their proprietary hardware (keyboard, iSight, trackpad) and 3rd party drivers where theyve used their chipsets (intel chipset, Broadcom wireless, RealTek Audio, ATI and NV graphics). So youll be able to find updated drivers for the audio and graphics, but everything else will probably stay the same until Apple sees fit to give us a new version.

of course, every driver is separate from the others, and so each could be replaced individually.

Seeing as its mainly just the graphics that youll care about changing every so often (though you need to use the updated audio drivers for Windows 7), thats the only component that is replaced when you update.