[Dark_Archon]

The trailer says almost nothing about the game. I hope it is a prequel, as I'm not sure how they'd fit a sequel after the two very different endings of Bioshock.

[jgwdoc]

Well, whichever ending you go for, Rapture still exists down there. Might be interesting to walk in there with all bosses dead and see what you could make of the place.

[teflon]

i believe one of the main ideas is that its the story of one of the little sisters who has grown up.
it could be the very first one, so a prequel.

anyway, its too early for me to get excited about this, theres more interesting stuff coming out much sooner

[Wumpus]

Ditto teflon, too early to really say anything about it. But I'm a huge fan of the Bioshock, so I have high hopes for a sequel. Be interesting to see how it goes without Ken Levine who directed the 1st one.

[Dark_Archon]

New trailer. It takes place 10 years after the first game. You play as the first big daddy and can use plasmids with one hand and weapons with the other. I haven't been too impressed with what I've heard/seen so far, but I was surprised by the quality of the first one, so I'm optimistic about this.

[teflon]

I think it looks like a solid expansion of ideas over the first entry.
First off theyve done the classic ever present nemesis thing (as seen in Metroid Prime 2 and countless other games I cant quite think of).
Then theyve placed you where you left off, as a big daddy, but with a twist, cos youre a different big daddy.
You can use both guns and plasmids at the same time, great since the first one was slow to switch between the two.
Theyre also mixing the set piece encounters, (although this was done in the first game towards the end), so that you have the option to defend your little sister from waves of splicers as she harvests adam.
Finally, underwater sections! yay!

All in all, I think that these fairly substantial changes are going to make this entry a pretty nifty sequel to what was already a rather solid game.

On my wishlist for the third game, though, would be for an open world experience, cos whilst the underwater city fascinated me, it was really just a linear rpg-shooter, and I feel it could be fleshed out to fill a whole city for real.

[J'nathus]

teflon, on April 21st 2009, 05:45 AM, said:

On my wishlist for the third game, though, would be for an open world experience, cos whilst the underwater city fascinated me, it was really just a linear rpg-shooter, and I feel it could be fleshed out to fill a whole city for real.

Isn't that always on the wish list? We're spoiled by free roaming games like GTA, Oblivion, Crackdown or Assassin's Creed and want that freedom in all games. I'll admit I share that desire, especially in games like Mirror's Edge where you have this 'what can I do over there(?)' thought all the time. The problem with the free roaming ability is inevitably that pacing is hard to manage and the experience can get boring without a 'it's just fun to climb stuff, or shoot random stuff' variable involved. I personally like exploration and puzzle solving as part of my gaming experience, but not many games include this more 'adventure-esque' ideal to any great extent these days. Getting to those rooms in the Doctor's lab that looked impossible to get into were some of the highlights of the first BioShock... Although another one (in that same area) was where you get your first shotgun and are treated to a lights out freaky / scary bit. Touches like those make a game an 'experience' for me and not just another shooter.

[PeopleLikeFrank]

I played through most of the first again recently. Solid writing and acting, although the overall package had lost its lustre for me somewhat. I think the drama and horror that they were writing quite well conflicted with some of the obvious gamey elements.

Sure it's a game, I'm not expecting 100% realism, but ammo vending machines in maintenance areas? Why? No wonder this little societal experiment went to crap. I kind of think they tried to provide too much here, should have scaled back a bit. Make me choose a little more what my character will be good at, rather than good at everything. Make resources a little more valuable. Ammo is nearly infinite, and when it isn't, money is, and when that isn't, parts to invent your own better ammo are. Ditch money. Keep the inventions (since scrounging in a defunct society works a little more), but don't put a machine for it every three meters. Don't put the game into pause while I hang from a camera on the ceiling, hacking it via a tedious mini-game. Keep trap bolts, but lose electro-gel and electric buckshot.

This guy had some nice ideas about how the latter part of the game (post Ryan's office) might have gone. These actually use some of the game elements in a way that seems a little more compelling:

Spoiler

the ever present threat of the sea, Fontaine's total control over the city, becoming a Big Daddy

. Most of these elements were underutilized or a bit disappointing when they actually happened, not to mention the finale, which was just silly.

Anyway. It was good enough that I'm interested in the second outing. I just wish critics had addressed some of the flaws a little more.

[teflon]

In some cases yes, people ask for open world when open world really shouldnt be done.
You mention Mirror's Edge, and whilst that would be interesting to see tackled as an open world game, I reckon that its better not being done like this. For ME2 I actually just want a more diverse selection of routes within a level. ME already has a small amount of side paths and routes which are mainly just there for you to shave those vital seconds of your speed run, but I dont feel its enough. I want to see 3 routes which overlap regularly which allow you to be sneaky, fast and punchy respectively. That would make for a much more interesting time of things and really add to the replay of the game rather than have an open world.

But Bioshock already had an open world feel to it, with quite a maze of areas within each level, and having you hunt down the big daddies and set traps and distractions for them while you beat them up. BS2 will have it so you have to defend your little sister from waves of splicers. Both of these gameplay instances are rooted in being able to happen anywhere and are necessary to level up, which means you have to do them several times in each level anyway.
Plonking it into an open world definitely doesnt mean that they cant have 'story only' bits which are locked off until you get to that point in the story. It would just give you the opportunity to muck around in what would be quite an engrossing underwater city of ruins when you want to before heading back and getting to the next mission bit.

[Sneaky Snake]

They could still have ' story only' bits in an open world. It could be a building, cave, location that you can't get to for nay number of reasons, like the door being locked and barred, etc.

[Wumpus]

There's some previews up on several sites including C&VG, Gamespot and IGN. Worth checking out.

[J'nathus]

teflon, on April 21st 2009, 08:37 AM, said:

In some cases yes, people ask for open world when open world really shouldnt be done.
You mention Mirror's Edge, and whilst that would be interesting to see tackled as an open world game, I reckon that its better not being done like this. For ME2 I actually just want a more diverse selection of routes within a level. ME already has a small amount of side paths and routes which are mainly just there for you to shave those vital seconds of your speed run, but I dont feel its enough. I want to see 3 routes which overlap regularly which allow you to be sneaky, fast and punchy respectively. That would make for a much more interesting time of things and really add to the replay of the game rather than have an open world.

To that end, I just found out about 2 different paths you can take through the drains on Youtube. There are 4 snipers (not just 3). I find that you can get through without engaging most of the enemies, even those that you have to. However, the design of rooftops and such left it open to only a few interpretations, but I'd like to have a lot of roaming I could do, and then I suddenly need to be somewhere. I'm spoiled by Crackdown's super jump, where I could pretty much get anywhere I wanted to.

On topic, there's a 'screenshot extravaganza' at Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/52...ot-extravaganza

[teflon]

oh yeah, theres plenty of minor variations in the path you can take, but you always go through the same doorways.

Itd be nice to be able to bypass the door by going through vents, or climb down the elevator shaft instead of taking the actual elevator, or enter the same building from a different doorway on the rooftop, which gives you a different set of challenges.

ME is very much a room by room kind of puzzle, with 3 routes per room. Why not have it be destination by destination, with 3 different sets of rooms? Triple the replay value with triple the content (essentially). And yeah, itd be a lot more work, but the game would get heaps more praise, and it would be a big step up over the original.

Im totally OT, sorry..

Anyway, as of today, Im ignoring everything to do with BS2 that there is (aside from the final trailer) right up until its launch. Got to preserve the surprise as much as possible, even if the devs are tightly controlling the trickle of info anyway.

[J'nathus]

teflon, on April 24th 2009, 09:45 AM, said:

oh yeah, theres plenty of minor variations in the path you can take, but you always go through the same doorways.

ME is very much a room by room kind of puzzle, with 3 routes per room. Why not have it be destination by destination, with 3 different sets of rooms? Triple the replay value with triple the content (essentially). And yeah, itd be a lot more work, but the game would get heaps more praise, and it would be a big step up over the original.

Im totally OT, sorry..

Anyway, as of today, Im ignoring everything to do with BS2 that there is (aside from the final trailer) right up until its launch. Got to preserve the surprise as much as possible, even if the devs are tightly controlling the trickle of info anyway.

I guess you can call them minor, but in the big room in the drain there are 3 totally different starting points and 3 totally different ways to get through. One path allows you to completely avoid all conflict, one allows you to avoid MOST of the conflict and the last one allows you to have LOTS of conflict.

What do you mean 'final trailer?' Are we waiting for THE trailer for BioShock 2? How do you know this? Where is it written? Is it coming soon!?!?!?!

[teflon]

You know, like the TV spot.

Im of the understanding that the big drain room is probably the biggest room in the game. For me that entire level was damnably cool anyway, so Id be quite happy to see something like that in ME 2. Just they need to keep it up for the rest of the game too.

[J'nathus]

teflon, on April 24th 2009, 01:06 PM, said:

You know, like the TV spot.

Im of the understanding that the big drain room is probably the biggest room in the game. For me that entire level was damnably cool anyway, so Id be quite happy to see something like that in ME 2. Just they need to keep it up for the rest of the game too.

Agreed. Once I got the hang of jumping after I can no longer see the ground I'm running on, that level began to run smooth as butter.

So, this "TV Spot" . .. you believe such a thing is going to come about, or you KNOW something. Are you going to tell me, or am I going to have to tighten the screws into your thumbs???

[teflon]

No I mean that Im not going to pay any attention to anything written by the press. Aside from if they say "BS2 launches XXth Xember 2009" or its a game trailer released by 2k.
So no previews, no gameplay vids, no nothing until launch.

Im just saying that Im interested enough in the game, and that Im confident in the series' ability to maintain its calibur of excellence for me to shut it out for the next 8 months or whatever it is.

And Im sure theyll put adverts on TV. Its a big game release, so of that Im sure.

[J'nathus]

teflon, on April 24th 2009, 03:48 PM, said:

No I mean that Im not going to pay any attention to anything written by the press. Aside from if they say "BS2 launches XXth Xember 2009" or its a game trailer released by 2k.
So no previews, no gameplay vids, no nothing until launch.

Im just saying that Im interested enough in the game, and that Im confident in the series' ability to maintain its calibur of excellence for me to shut it out for the next 8 months or whatever it is.

And Im sure theyll put adverts on TV. Its a big game release, so of that Im sure.

So you don't want me to tell you that . . .

Oh, forget it.