[The Liberator]

This has been happening to me for about nearly three days straight. Whenever I open mail, launches, and then does not load any of my emails, it does not get any new mail. Instead it waits a few seconds, and eventually freezes up and does not respond (with the swirling cursor).

I am running 10.4.11, and Mail's version is 2.1.3

Thanks in advance, Liberator.

[yo-mike]

The Liberator, on November 20th 2008, 01:14 AM, said:

This has been happening to me for about nearly three days straight. Whenever I open mail, launches, and then does not load any of my emails, it does not get any new mail. Instead it waits a few seconds, and eventually freezes up and does not respond (with the swirling cursor).

I am running 10.4.11, and Mail's version is 2.1.3

Thanks in advance, Liberator.

No secondary e-mail programs? SeaMonkey? Thunderbird? (Apps that get regular updates).
How about System Maintenance programs? Like Socks.
Maybe the mail pref file croaked?

Mike

[The Liberator]

Well, I know I am fine when I check my mail on Safari. I assume that all the other email client applications would not be affected, although I have not checked it with anything else yet. I think it is only to do with Mail, whatever this problem is.

Liberator.

[teflon]

are all of the emails backed up on the web server?
if so, then you could quite happily remove your current database and have everything download again.

at the same time, Id say its probably your best bet to remove the database anyway and see what happens. so head on over to Home/Library and move the 'Mail' folder to the desktop, then open Mail and see what it does.
It should come up asking for you to set up the accounts afresh, which you could do, and then try to replace the freshly created mailboxes with the old...
im sure what I just said is about as clear as mud.

unfortunately, the workings of mail are incredibly complicated and difficult to figure out. The database isnt very user friendly, and its high time that Apple started afresh, scrapping everything and moving to a easier to use system, which allows for the simple transferring of a database from one system to another.

[yo-mike]

teflon, on November 21st 2008, 08:34 AM, said:

are all of the emails backed up on the web server?
if so, then you could quite happily remove your current database and have everything download again.

at the same time, Id say its probably your best bet to remove the database anyway and see what happens. so head on over to Home/Library and move the 'Mail' folder to the desktop, then open Mail and see what it does.
It should come up asking for you to set up the accounts afresh, which you could do, and then try to replace the freshly created mailboxes with the old...
im sure what I just said is about as clear as mud.

Which is exactly why I suggest from the depths to have a secondary e-mail client. Liberate!

Quote

unfortunately, the workings of mail are incredibly complicated and difficult to figure out. The database isnt very user friendly, and its high time that Apple started afresh, scrapping everything and moving to a easier to use system, which allows for the simple transferring of a database from one system to another.

Again, liberate.

You say much, teflon. To scrap everything is pretty steep.

Has customization of Mac OS X gotten worse in Leopard?

Gastly compared to Panther's mail. Customization on Mac OS X has taken the back seat more and more.

[teflon]

well, I personally prefer the layout and functions of mail, after giving it HTTP access and using a widemail modification. ive already got it set up, and it hasnt broken for me in about 2 years. But when it did break, I generally have a good instinct for being able to get it working again (though its difficult for me to explain what you need to do).

My main complaint is the difficulty of porting the database from one computer to another, or from one system to the next. For that to happen, they would need to effectively start afresh, but this would be for 10.6, and so all they need to do is add the ability to import a previous database (easy for Apple, as its their own system) and convert it to the newer one. Create a sensible hierarchical system for the files within the finder itself, so that youre not relying on Spotlight if you dont want to, and have the files names clearly labelled somehow. Possibly create it with smart folders, so its simple to navigate through.

theres lots of little tricks and cheats to customise OSX still, but as yet, youre not able to re-introduce the decent buttons for the top bar, which were much clearer.

[Eric5h5]

teflon, on November 21st 2008, 10:52 AM, said:

theres lots of little tricks and cheats to customise OSX still, but as yet, youre not able to re-introduce the decent buttons for the top bar, which were much clearer.

What about MailStamps? Works fine, so my Mail looks pretty much the same as it did in 10.3. I haven't had any problems with it (yet?) after some thousands of emails, but I agree the database is far from the best thing ever.

--Eric

[yo-mike]

Eric5h5, on November 21st 2008, 12:05 PM, said:

What about MailStamps? Works fine, so my Mail looks pretty much the same as it did in 10.3. I haven't had any problems with it (yet?) after some thousands of emails, but I agree the database is far from the best thing ever.

--Eric

Ha, ha. What is mailstamps? Oh yeah, that GUI supplement. Why bother?
Mail in Tiger looks worse than MS Excel XP.
And if having FOSS backup Apps. isn't one of the best option to keep you up and running I don't know what is.

This post has been edited by yo-mike: 21 November 2008 - 11:25 AM

[teflon]

mail stamps is 10.4 only. If you use it in 10.5, then it cuts off the top and the bottom of each icon, cos Apple changed the icon size..

I disagree about mail's looks. Aside from the buttons, it fits in perfectly with the rest of the OS. However, by rights, it should have the same style of buttons as Safari or the Finder, but it doesnt. It is another example of Apple breaking their own rules, but thats just the way it goes.

It works especially well if you add WideMail into the mix.

[The Liberator]

So then gentlemen, what should I do?

Liberator.

[Eric5h5]

Do what teflon said.

--Eric

[The Liberator]

I just did that, everything works fine. Can I delete the Mail folder that is now on the Desktop?

Liberator.

[yo-mike]

Whatever.

[yo-mike]

teflon, on November 21st 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

mail stamps is 10.4 only. If you use it in 10.5, then it cuts off the top and the bottom of each icon, cos Apple changed the icon size..

Like I said before, where is all the customization going to?
Mac OS9 still outshines OS X in customization.
And what about Leopard's customization?
Mac OS 10.4 took away one of my favorite options. Customizing System Pefs Tool Bar of all things! If THAT doesn't hurt my workflow, pigs fly.

Quote

I disagree about mail's looks. Aside from the buttons, it fits in perfectly with the rest of the OS. However, by rights, it should have the same style of buttons as Safari or the Finder, but it doesn't. It is another example of Apple breaking their own rules, but thats just the way it goes.

It works especially well if you add WideMail into the mix.

Mail stinks. Looks like some mobile phone jumble up mess from MS.
Thunderbird is eye-manageable to be actually enjoyable and SeaMonkey mail is fundamentally fine enough to be productive with a learning curve.
WideMail- Aack! Please, no! Small is bad enough!

[teflon]

well, its a personal preference. I find mail simple and easy to use, simple as that. It doesnt have a learning curve, and fits in with aqua.
widemail just makes the progression clearer, from left to right.
i agree to disagree.

anyway, liberator, if mail has re-downloaded everything from the server, and you didnt have any emails backed up only on your computer, then you can quite happily delete it, yes.

[yo-mike]

teflon, on November 22end 2008, 08:17 AM, said:

well, its a personal preference. I find mail simple and easy to use, simple as that. It doesn't have a learning curve, and fits in with aqua.
wide mail just makes the progression clearer, from left to right.
i agree to disagree.

Well, I guess some personsonal preferences move right along with Apple's hammered out updates. Perhaps if Apple actually offered themes, I'd probably pass out. But at this late time in the game it's probably only going to get worse and worse and You'll still have to buy half the stuff you like just to get Mac OS X the way you like and get Apps to make it work the way it should work already

The learning curve I'm referring to actually makes a computer use a little more fun to use, plus there's a built in Text Editor/Web page composer and Address Book. These are good things, and if they don't fit in with Aqua, that's a nice break for me. Half the web has adopted that. IMG hasn't and SeaMonkey Classic theme actually fits in perfect with this site. Did you know that? Probably not. It took me a while to adopt SeaMonkey, but I saw it's potential to become my main stand alone Application that I consequently use every day. The updates issued by release are getting better and better and actually taking the time to use it has paid off immensely! And the Spell checker in Composer is out of this world dude. If you give it an honest try I can almost guarantee you or anyone else won't be disappointed. The layout is entirely professional, which is the way I want to go and not be hindered by the Mac dumbed down aluminum interface.
And SeaMonkey is very fast, getting faster with every release. Make no mistake. I'd glady use an Application suite over 6-7 separate Apps. any day.
Cheers,
Mike

This post has been edited by yo-mike: 22 November 2008 - 02:25 PM

[teflon]

Pre-10.5, I was using shapeshifter (got a free license for it somewhere along the line) or Uno to get me some aqua in the finder and the main apps. That Apple finally moved to a unified aqua theme across the board, and ditched the now ghastly brushed metal look (though it was good for its time, I must admit), pleased me no end. I didnt follow Apple, I, like many people who used Uno, was ahead of apple in this by a good few years.
yeah, they dont offer quite enough options, I wish that mail had the wide interface as an option anyway, and a few other things, but aside from maybe 2 or 3 (tops) plug-in type apps, everything is free. And those 2-3 come to a total of around $20.

of course, I vaguely remember that youre not a fan of aqua (to put it lightly).

To be honest, Im 99% happy with the set up I have for web browsing right now. Considering that I have Mail accessing my hotmail account, and only entourage works otherwise, and its nicely set up for me, I dont want to change there. I also prefer safari to FF or Camino or anything else, having tried them all (SeaMonkey may be the sole major exception). Finally, I use NetNewsWire for RSS feeds as I dont like the way that Apple have just slapped it into everything going in OSX for no reason, and whilst it doesnt match the style that Apple set out completely, the keyboard controls are dead simple to use, the interface is wide (just how I like it), it will pass links onto safari in the background (again, just how I like it), and the icons in the menu bar are still clear and easy to understand.

but anyway, Im sure that shapeshifter will eventually catch up with OSX by the time 10.6 comes out, and then youll be able to customise the interface to your hearts content for just $20.

[The Liberator]

Well, thank you everyone for your input and help.

Liberator.

[charmin]

yo-mike, on November 22nd 2008, 08:18 PM, said:

I'd glady use an Application suite over 6-7 separate Apps. any day.

tBC would slap me silly if I said what I want to right now.

teflon, on November 23rd 2008, 02:43 AM, said:

but anyway, Im sure that shapeshifter will eventually catch up with OSX by the time 10.6 comes out, and then youll be able to customise the interface to your hearts content for just $20.

Or maybe Façade will prove not to be vapourware.

[the Battle Cat]

charmin, on November 23rd 2008, 03:40 AM, said:

tBC would slap me silly if I said what I want to right now.

::tBC slaps charmin silly anyway::

charmin, on November 23rd 2008, 03:40 AM, said:

Or maybe Façade will prove not to be vapourware.

At first I thought you meant this Façade and I was going to say that it was only a concept demo and that I talked Grace into leaving Trip but she flew out the door before I could start hitting on her. But then I quite well know the vacuum power of that door, having been bulldozed through it a dozen times by Trip.