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#21 MightySlugMan

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:07 PM

Debbie-downer much, TBC?  ;)

Anyways, I for one have played the L4D demo nearly every day since its release for the pre-order people.  This game combines two things that I love, zombies and co-op and I find that the gameplay is pretty solid, as we've come to expect from Valve.  The hit detection seems a little wonky at times and I'll find that sometimes a gun that killed 4 zombies in a single shot each, will struggle to kill another zombie after shooting it a few times in the face.  But that's really my only gripe.  I'm eager for the full release tomorrow, the first level is starting a wear a little thing, but playing it on expert, mixed in with random/adapting system that spawns zombies/items differently every time, makes for a blast of an evening.  Too bad I have finals this week, otherwise I don't think I would do anything but play L4D tomorrow :o

Zombies may not be everyone's slice of pie, but the game deserves at least a look by everyone.
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#22 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 07:04 PM

View Postjgwdoc, on November 17th 2008, 01:22 PM, said:

Ok, now that Frigidman has trashed L4D, what do people think of Dead Space? The concept of strategic dismemberment has a certain appeal, and it looks like the graphics are pretty nice. And it's also kind of a zombie game, except in space. Sadly, no Nazi zombies.

Nice work on design. Graphics and sound used to good, sometimes even subtle effect, rather than 'just because'. The gameplay does take a nice twist from the dismemberment thing, as you're usually concerned with slowing the monsters down as much as killing them. It does get a bit repetitive, and there aren't a whole lot of super memorable moments. Zero gravity and vacuum are tossed in, and make for some nice variety even as you're getting sick of more metal ship areas.

The plot is unoriginal and not terribly interesting, lifted in large parts from SS2 and whatever generic horror films you care to think of. Twists are seen coming a mile away, characterization is frankly bad, and the horror isn't very scary. Overall, I thought it was worth a run through, even at close to release price, if only for some good design gone into a new setting for once. It won't go on my list of classics, but I enjoyed it.
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#23 jgwdoc

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 08:19 PM

View Postnobody, on November 17th 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

Nice work on design. Graphics and sound used to good, sometimes even subtle effect, rather than 'just because'. The gameplay does take a nice twist from the dismemberment thing, as you're usually concerned with slowing the monsters down as much as killing them. It does get a bit repetitive, and there aren't a whole lot of super memorable moments. Zero gravity and vacuum are tossed in, and make for some nice variety even as you're getting sick of more metal ship areas.

The plot is unoriginal and not terribly interesting, lifted in large parts from SS2 and whatever generic horror films you care to think of. Twists are seen coming a mile away, characterization is frankly bad, and the horror isn't very scary. Overall, I thought it was worth a run through, even at close to release price, if only for some good design gone into a new setting for once. It won't go on my list of classics, but I enjoyed it.


That sounds good enough for a run through to me. I've gone through many of the Windows classics folks have praised in other threads, and I'm starting to try out some newer games. Mass Effect first, though.
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#24 MightySlugMan

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 10:50 PM

After watching both a friend and my roommate play through Dead Space, I think the simplest way to some up the game is as, "Resident Evil 4 in Space."
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#25 badger2d

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 11:11 PM

I like shooters.  A well-designed co-op shooter sounds like fun.

Wait...it's another zombie game.  :bleedingeyes:

Nevermind.  Hate horror movies, hate horror stories, hate horror games.  If it has any good design features, then I'll just hope someone makes a knockoff of it in a different genre.

#26 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 12:17 AM

Wow, why so much hate for zombies?

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#27 Wumpus

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 01:06 AM

I've been following the progress of L4D and I'm pretty interested. Haven't tried the demo yet, but I'll download it soon. Honestly I'm mostly a single-player type of person, so I'll have to see how good it is that way. Sometimes I can hookup with a friend or two on LAN, and while we live nearby, we don't see each other so much due to our schedules. So it will be mostly SP for me. I heard the bots are really good in it. Although of course its primarily designed for co-op play.

I wouldn't say I'm a 'fan' of zombie things, but neither am I put off by it. I just like a good shooter, so we'll see how this one stacks up.

Further thoughts once I check it out.
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#28 Janichsan

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:13 AM

View PostAussieMacGamer, on November 18th 2008, 07:17 AM, said:

Wow, why so much hate for zombies?
There's nothing wrong with zombies per se, in my opinion. I like zombie movies, for instance. But that's because the good zombie movies have a level that goes beyond the simple fact of dead people running around. Either they use the humoristic potential of walking rotten corpses (Braindead, Shaun of the Dead) or they can be seen as parable on human society (Dawn of the Dead, Land of the Dead, Dead of Night, 28 Days Later, etc.)

Zombies in games on the other hand are a stupid cliche, used whenever the developers run out of ideas or need simple cannon fodder that is easy to code due to the total lack of the "I" in AI.

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#29 Atticus

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:18 PM

View PostAussieMacGamer, on November 18th 2008, 01:17 AM, said:

Wow, why so much hate for zombies?

'Cause this is a forum full of Linux-using, ponytailed, bearded cranks who think the only game worth playing is Marathon.

:lol:

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#30 the Battle Cat

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 07:11 PM

View PostAussieMacGamer, on November 17th 2008, 10:17 PM, said:

Wow, why so much hate for zombies?
Because anything that looks, acts or smells like a bureaucrat is on my popsnizzle list.
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#31 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:58 PM

what about a beureaucat?

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#32 Malt-Pipefishes

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 10:19 PM

Have you guys actually played the demo yet? Not only are the zombies fast, numerous, artistically varied, and joyoushly gushy when shot, but there are different types of them that emerge as the level progresses. How many games have enemies that grab you with their freaking tongue and then spray freaking cyanide? Not to mention the gigantic wall-breaking zombies, the really fast pin-you-down-and-scratch-at-your-face zombies, and the creepy meth-addict ladies who kill you in one hit.  :sabber:

Also, Janichsan, in case you didn't notice, the game has a certain degree of humor about itself. Notice the cheesy movie poster at the beginning of the level, the grainy film effect, and the comically archetypal characters. (A grizzled veteran, A naive chick who is forced to toughen up, etc)
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#33 Janichsan

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 02:16 AM

View PostMalt-Pipefishes, on November 19th 2008, 05:19 AM, said:

Have you guys actually played the demo yet? Not only are the zombies fast, numerous, artistically varied, and joyoushly gushy when shot, but there are different types of them that emerge as the level progresses. How many games have enemies that grab you with their freaking tongue and then spray freaking cyanide? Not to mention the gigantic wall-breaking zombies, the really fast pin-you-down-and-scratch-at-your-face zombies, and the creepy meth-addict ladies who kill you in one hit.  :sabber:

Also, Janichsan, in case you didn't notice, the game has a certain degree of humor about itself. Notice the cheesy movie poster at the beginning of the level, the grainy film effect, and the comically archetypal characters. (A grizzled veteran, A naive chick who is forced to toughen up, etc)
Yes, I played the demo and yes, I noticed the grain of humor in it - which might provoke a smirk now and then, but isn't up to a good zombie comedy. I can certainly see that the game could provide a certain amount of fun with four players, but it still feels lame. Even with the variety of zombies, their main tactic seems to consist of running straight at you (preferably into your line of fire), all of the characters play the same and the game strings together cliche after cliche.

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#34 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:09 AM

You played it by yourself didn't you?

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#35 Janichsan

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 07:43 AM

View PostAussieMacGamer, on November 19th 2008, 02:09 PM, said:

You played it by yourself didn't you?
Admittedly, yes. I didn't have the opportunity to gather enough friends for a co-op game before the demo time ran out. However, even with four people I don't think I could look past the dumb zombie premise. A dumb four player co-op game remains a dumb game. Sorry.

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#36 Malt-Pipefishes

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 05:12 PM

View PostJanichsan, on November 19th 2008, 08:43 AM, said:

Admittedly, yes. I didn't have the opportunity to gather enough friends for a co-op game before the demo time ran out. However, even with four people I don't think I could look past the dumb zombie premise. A dumb four player co-op game remains a dumb game. Sorry.
Though it's probably too late to say this (for you at least) you can find random people to play with online through the game lobby. Where L4D really shines is the coop mechanics/tactics; (i.e, covering eachother's back.) In this way, you won't get nearly the same experience by yourself, given the dumb-as-nails A.I. that follow you around.
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#37 teflon

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 05:23 PM

I wish they wouldnt keep using these fast zombies we see. Im talking generally here. Yeah, its a good gimmick, but now Im tired of this particular fad, and wish we could just get back to the plain old broken neck/lolling head/one armed/dragging blood smearing leg zombies, and just have them in huge implacable numbers.

So Im thinking that they follow you, relentlessly, at a slow pace. If another zombie comes across them, then they instinctively know that theyre following, so even if you dont see a zombie for 10 minutes, the zombie horde will be growing and picking up momentum. If they catch up with you and you havent got an escape route sorted (there should almost always be one present, from air shafts to fire exits to kick in to pipes to climb up a building) or a decent barricade (enter the ability to drag stuff about and create ad-hoc obstacle courses), then theyll be able to tear you limb from limb.

the team work would come through searching for survivors (NPCs and/or your team mates), you start off in pairs, and have to try and find each other and head off to escape. Here, a new dynamic comes through the ability to shout out (key press, not through headset), and shout back. But, of course, any zombies nearby will be able to hear you and follow the sound to find you (theyll also be drawn to changes in the environment, so you may want to think twice before turning the power back on in the pub ;) ), so dont stay still for too long.

in terms of story, I dont really want any, I just want a solid and inventive set of tools to take apart zombies. Scarce ammo, no super-weapons (though maybe a flamethrower), a chainsaw and an axe and any environmental things you can pick up or push over (chairs and bookshelves are prime examples). And nothing will keep them down apart from removing or destroying the head/brain.

anyway, yeah, it could be done well, and I imagine that valve will have gotten it right for anyone in the mood to do a modernish zombie game. But personally, Ill probably prefer a more classic theme to it a single type of zombie (ill never understand having different types of zombies, surely theres only going to be one virus or catastrophe or whatever that would affect everyone the same way?).

i dunno if i can be bothered with the demo yet, i might give it a go in a week or so.
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#38 Atticus

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 05:50 PM

If you haven't played online in co-op four-player mode, then you haven't played L4D at all, IMHO. Similar in some ways to WoW--WoW *can* be a fun single-player experience, but the game really comes together when you group and see all of the character classes working together towards a goal. Then it becomes a sublime experience.

Teamwork is what makes L4D fun--working together to shoot zombies off your teammates, reviving downed players, healing, even pulling them up as they dangle from ledges. You have to work together to beat any of the levels. And getting everyone prepared before the inevitable zombie swarm is loads of tense fun: "OMG, someone man the chain gun! Put the gas tanks THERE. Everyone have health? Ready? etc. etc." You sometimes do feel like you're part of a zombie movie experience.  :lol:

I agree that at the moment, the content is a little thin, but user-generated maps are apparently coming. And then it'll get RiLLY interesting.

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#39 AussieMacGamer

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 05:59 AM

Yeah you have to play Left 4 Dead online, just doesn't have the same dynamic with the bots. I wont be purchasing Left 4 Dead unless i can get Steam working with multiplayer.

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#40 the Battle Cat

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:49 AM

View PostMightySlugMan, on November 17th 2008, 03:07 PM, said:

Debbie-downer much, TBC?  ;)
My thinking was to stress that internet based co-op games would really work for me, but now that I re-read that post, it looks like I was penning a suicide note.  Don't mind me, I'm just one of those typical loner tomcats.
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