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To some PPC Mac owners: stop giving games low scores for being Intel only.


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#1 Naman

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 04:05 AM

Please, I know you dig your PPC Macs, but for the rest of us, please understand: Your platform is dead. They do not make them any more. If devs want to support them, that's awesome, and more power to them, but please stop lowering software's scores on review sites (Macgamefiles especially) because it won't run on obsolete hardware. Thank you.

#2 Tesseract

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 05:06 AM

Some of them seem to be in response to the description claiming that it's a universal binary when in fact it's Intel-only. But yeah, it's pretty dumb to give a low rating when by definition you haven't even played the game.

#3 bobbob

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 02:28 PM

View PostTesseract, on October 5th 2008, 04:06 AM, said:

it's pretty dumb to give a low rating when by definition you haven't even played the game.
What if you can't because the promised UB never came, or it opens to a black screen, or it's broke and your told to pay for the expansion to fix it?

#4 Naman

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 03:17 PM

View PostTesseract, on October 5th 2008, 04:06 AM, said:

Some of them seem to be in response to the description claiming that it's a universal binary when in fact it's Intel-only. But yeah, it's pretty dumb to give a low rating when by definition you haven't even played the game.

Most of the time people just aren't reading the system requirements, though. A game can be compiled as a universal binary and only work on Intel if it has Intel-specific calls in it. True, "universal binary" is misleading, but if it says in the reqs "Intel processor" and makes no mention of PPC, it's Intel-only. :P

And giving it negative reviews doesn't help anything, it just messes the score up. You're better off emailing the site admin/moderator and telling them you think there's an error in the description.

#5 bobbob

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 04:03 PM

Quote

And giving it negative reviews doesn't help anything
If Feral says there will be PPC support, and they never deliver, that's quite the error in description. I think that deserves to be reviewed.

#6 charmin

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 04:25 PM

Which game?
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#7 Tesseract

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 05:42 PM

FlatOut 2 demo, presumably.

#8 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 06:11 PM

a demo is hardly a good reason to start tossing bad reviews around
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#9 Naman

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 08:18 PM

View PostTesseract, on October 5th 2008, 04:42 PM, said:

FlatOut 2 demo, presumably.

That one did inspire this topic, truth be told, but this is a phenomenon I've seen a lot over time.

#10 yo-mike

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 09:40 PM

What bad reviews are there for Intel only Macs anyway, the cause being no PPC Mac support?
I don't think I've seen any.

Flat out 2 didn't get a bad reviews for this on MGF.

I don't see why someone can't give a 'bad' review for
a demo. I like reading what users have to say, besides reviewers all the time, about what I might buy.
Everyday users have some of the most useful comments sometimes.

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#11 Buzz Bumble

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 11:29 PM

Mac OS X 10.5 still runs on PowerPC G5 Macs. All software, not just games, being released should realistically also run on any Mac supported by the currently shipping operating system (at least! Even better if it also supported the previous one as well, if only for the first six months or so.). Doing so obviously gives the company more possible customers for their product.

#12 bobbob

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 12:48 AM

View PostBuzz Bumble, on October 5th 2008, 10:29 PM, said:

All software, not just games, being released should realistically also run on any Mac supported by the currently shipping operating system
The problem isn't so much the OS, but the hardware. Some games just don't scale well onto slow G4s and G5s, or the integrated graphics of the lower-end Intels. Since Apple couldn't sell many fast G5s, basically only PowerMacs and only then iff the buyer ditched the junk they came with, there just aren't enough PPC users to run some of these demanding games. That, and the OS does suck a bit in the OpenGL and graphics driver department so hardware performance is even more of a factor than it should be.

#13 The Liberator

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 12:50 AM

From what I have been told, more recently the reason why games are Intel only is that only a small fraction of the PPC market could run a modern game. That is why a year after Intel Macs started to be shipped, the developers started to look to the future and to who they could support for the system requirements.

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#14 charmin

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 03:18 AM

View Postbobbob, on October 5th 2008, 11:03 PM, said:

If Feral says there will be PPC support, and they never deliver, that's quite the error in description. I think that deserves to be reviewed.


View Postcharmin, on October 5th 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

Which game?


View PostTesseract, on October 6th 2008, 12:42 AM, said:

FlatOut 2 demo, presumably.

Feral? FlatOut 2? Did I miss something?
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#15 Smoke_Tetsu

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 03:32 AM

I was a little confused too and then I saw that virtual programming did FlatOut 2... NOT Feral. They (Feral) don't have it on their web site.
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#16 Eric5h5

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 03:33 AM

View Postcharmin, on October 6th 2008, 05:18 AM, said:

Feral? FlatOut 2? Did I miss something?

bobbob presumably was referring to Tomb Raider Anniversary, for which Feral said they had plans for a PPC patch, but that doesn't seem to have happened.  FlatOut2 is VP.

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#17 teflon

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 04:52 AM

View PostBuzz Bumble, on October 6th 2008, 06:29 AM, said:

Mac OS X 10.5 still runs on PowerPC G5 Macs. All software, not just games, being released should realistically also run on any Mac supported by the currently shipping operating system (at least! Even better if it also supported the previous one as well, if only for the first six months or so.).

Tell that to windows games...
if this was to be a rule, then PC gaming would be dead in about 4 days.

10.5 also runs on a PM G4 with 900Mhz... but you shouldnt expect to be playing Call of Duty 4 on that.
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#18 edddeduck

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 08:17 AM

View Postbobbob, on October 5th 2008, 01:28 PM, said:

What if you can't because the promised UB never came, or it opens to a black screen, or it's broke and your told to pay for the expansion to fix it?

It depends on the description if it says PPC supported and it does not work on your PPC then fair enough you can comment but if it states Intel only and you only have a PPC machine then I don't think you should comment. That is a bit like saying Bioshock for Xbox 360 does not run on my Wii so I give it one star rating. You should only rate a product when your machine(s) make the specified rating the product needs.

I noted a review of Tomb Raider with the comment "and its Intel only. What the fact..?" and a one star review which is a little harsh but that's the internet for you!

View Postbobbob, on October 5th 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

If Feral says there will be PPC support, and they never deliver, that's quite the error in description. I think that deserves to be reviewed.

We don't have any demos that wrongly state the chip-set required. Even the Tomb Raider demo states Intel only. When we have mentioned a PPC or Intel patch the documentation and websites for the games and demos are not updated till after we shipped the patch like with Ford Racing 2 or Chessmaster 9000.

If you can find a badly labeled demo or information page please let us know and we will ask for it to be corrected.

View PostEric5h5, on October 6th 2008, 02:33 AM, said:

bobbob presumably was referring to Tomb Raider Anniversary, for which Feral said they had plans for a PPC patch, but that doesn't seem to have happened.  FlatOut2 is VP.
--Eric

Flat Out 2 is VP as mentioned. For Tomb Raider we did say we would be working on bring it to the PPC if possible, we will be announcing more news on this when we can. We always try and get the game on the PPC platform as their are a number of Mac users with G5 machines (my own Mac's happen to be G4's!) however as time passes the machines and more importantly the graphics cards become more and more out of date making it harder to port the game while the number of PPC machines that can run the game gets smaller and smaller as the spec's increase.

As such we look at PPC support on a game by game basis weighing up factors of effort to make it work on PPC v.s. how many PPC users can run the game. Battlestations Midway is a good example of how the spec was so high (and the graphics card required) that porting and supporting PPC was not feasible. Although PPC machines can run 10.5 this does not mean they have the same features available to them compared to the Intel machines.

For example one of the the best (widely available) G5 cards is an ATi X800 card, for the slowest Intel machine (with dedicated graphics) the card is an ATi X1600. This means that for the Intel Mac your min spec is realistically a 1.83 Ghz Dual Core machine with an X1600 card, this is already close to if not more powerful than the standard 2.0GHz G5 towers and is definitely more powerful than the single CPU G5 iMac's.

So the problem you can see is that even if a game runs on the slowest Intel machine with dedicated graphics this does not guarantee that it will run on a G5 machine and if it does you might only support the final spec machines as the graphics card might not be powerful enough with the older machines even if the CPU speed is close enough.

This is why we released our Legends series which when possible will support PPC machines as well as the Intel MacBook and Minis, these games have lower specs so it makes it easier to support PPC as well as Intel compared to the brand new AAA titles.

Edwin

#19 yo-mike

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 09:40 AM

View PostEric5h5, on October 6th 2008, 05:33 AM, said:

bobbob presumably was referring to Tomb Raider Anniversary, for which Feral said they had plans for a PPC patch, but that doesn't seem to have happened.  FlatOut2 is VP.

--Eric
Yes Feral's TRA is supposed to have a PPC version in 'the new year', but which new year they are referring to is possibly going into 2009. Yet they still have nearly 3 months to deliver for 2008. But, don't the TR games always have some odd porting issue when it comes to Mac? The first original 3 TRs for Mac had 2 upgraded versions of each 3 original games and no updates for the original 3. Except for maybe some gold level downloads, but no updates.

TRAoD had reportedly the best fixes implemented into the Mac version.

And back to the original topic: Since PPC Macs are a "dead platform" they still need to be flogged like a dead horse every now and then. Ya just never know.

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#20 edddeduck

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 09:50 AM

View Postyo-mike, on October 6th 2008, 08:40 AM, said:

Yes Feral's TRA is supposed to have a PPC version in 'the new year'....

Err *whistles a merry tune* yeah we did say we would make a PPC version, we will be making an official announcement on this in the coming weeks but I can tell you the game is the hardest game we have ever tried to bring to the PPC platform. Cannot say more before then (sorry).

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