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Radeon HD 4870 X2 in the Mac Pro


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#1 rob_ART

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 02:08 PM

I'm hoping the next gen Mac Pro will feature a cutting-edge GPU. I have a few suggestions for Apple in THIS ARTICLE -- especially the Radeon HD 4870 X2.
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#2 bobbob

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 02:20 PM

View Postrob_ART, on August 29th 2008, 01:08 PM, said:

I'm hoping the next gen Mac Pro will feature a cutting-edge GPU. I have a few suggestions for Apple in THIS ARTICLE -- especially the Radeon HD 4870 X2.
You keep suggesting that as a good alternative to actual SLI/Crossfire support, but I'm pretty sure that's how the drivers handle it. Why not just ask for proper drivers?

#3 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 05:43 PM

Mac Rumors posted this article stating that a frence site has recieved confirmation form ATI that the 4850 and 70 are coming to mac "soon", whatever that means. could be a month, could be 6 months, could be not at all if the french site is lying.



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#4 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 05:49 PM

Do you think a refresh will happen before Christmas?


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#5 Fendersrule

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 07:20 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on August 29th 2008, 06:49 PM, said:

Do you think a refresh will happen before Christmas?
-Snake

Secretly waiting for X2's or SLI/Crossfire for Apple. AMD or Nvidia..don't care.

Not that I don't like my 8800 GT (It's able to zip through everything I've tried...Crysis needed some help), but it would be nice to have a future prospect.
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#6 rob_ART

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 09:04 PM

View Postbobbob, on August 29th 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

You keep suggesting that as a good alternative to actual SLI/Crossfire support, but I'm pretty sure that's how the drivers handle it. Why not just ask for proper drivers?

It's my understanding that the only way (or the easiest way) to provide the advantages of CrossFire under Mac OS X is to put the dual processors on one card. That's why I'm campaigning for the X2 Mac Edition -- that works on all models of Mac Pro.
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#7 rob_ART

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 09:11 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on August 29th 2008, 04:43 PM, said:

Mac Rumors posted this article stating that a frence site has recieved confirmation form ATI that the 4850 and 70 are coming to mac "soon", whatever that means. could be a month, could be 6 months, could be not at all if the french site is lying.
-Snake

Why are you saying "but not the X2"?
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#8 teflon

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 03:59 AM

If AMD can get it out in the next couple of months (November?), then they will have the must have card for the mac pro. Seriously putting the screws to NV's paltry offering...
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#9 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 11:44 AM

View Postrob_ART, on August 29th 2008, 11:11 PM, said:

Why are you saying "but not the X2"?

cuz thats what the article says


Quote

Mac4ever (french) received word from ATI that while the Radeon HD 4870 X2 will not be coming for the Mac, ATI has confirmed that both the Radeon HD 4870 and Radeon HD 4850 will be coming for the Mac "soon"

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#10 bobbob

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 12:07 PM

View Postrob_ART, on August 29th 2008, 08:04 PM, said:

It's my understanding that the only way (or the easiest way) to provide the advantages of CrossFire under Mac OS X is to put the dual processors on one card. That's why I'm campaigning for the X2 Mac Edition -- that works on all models of Mac Pro.

I still think the driver pretty much has to handle it like any other Crossfire, maybe with a special case being that the bridge is just traces on the same board and there isn't a second (or third, or fourth) PCIe slot. The memory mapping of registers is probably exactly the same, except maybe being in one device's address space. I think ATI's Linux drivers show a bit of evidence of this, with the lack of Crossfire support in older drivers they also notably missed support for the 3870x2, and with new drivers that have CrossfireX/4800 Crossfire support they now notably support the 4870x2.

If ATI's Linux drivers support the whole 4800 line, including CrossfireX and the 4870x2, why are you merely hoping for the 4870x2? Why ask and settle for perpetual third-class status?

#11 teflon

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 12:25 PM

cos its the top card that they have out right now, and whilst inefficient, due to SLI/crossfire being equate-able to dual cores, ie doesnt actually offer twice the performance, the level of performance it will provide will be far in excess of the 8800GT and be relatively future proof (say 3 years before it approaches obsolescence).

however, as discussed in another thread (BTW, Id say that the two topics are similar enough to warrant merging them), ATI might miss the X2 and just bring the 4850 and the 4870. If they did that, then Id be plenty happy. Strap two of either together and youve got a nifty set up straight away. heck, even just sticking a single 4850 in there is going to give you good frame rates at 1080p for the next year or so.

out of interest, why do you consider having a single absolute top end card available 3rd class status?
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#12 the Battle Cat

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 01:01 PM

View Postteflon, on August 30th 2008, 11:25 AM, said:

however, as discussed in another thread (BTW, Id say that the two topics are similar enough to warrant merging them),
I agree, I merged the topic you linked into this one as this one was first.
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#13 bobbob

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 02:01 PM

View Postteflon, on August 30th 2008, 11:25 AM, said:

out of interest, why do you consider having a single absolute top end card available 3rd class status?
1st class: Windows: Crossfire, CrossfireX, Hybrid Power, game overrides, etc.
2nd class: Linux: CrossfireX, game overrides, etc.
3rd class: Mac: ... ... ATI displays. For who, the neckbeards still poking along on a G5?

The Mac drivers don't have the features, don't perform as well, come out later, and don't support the range of cards and prices the others do. How can you not think we're third class, especially when we're unlikely to ever see a single top-end card, let alone the 4870x2, ever work on the Mac? Asking for half-assed Crossfire support (i.e. 4870x2) and settling for a 4850 or 4870 sometime later this year (or next) isn't asking for anything to improve, you know.

#14 teflon

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 04:07 PM

ah right. I thought you were coming at it from a different angle. Like the number of cards available.

Even so, youre forgetting that the primary obstacle is Apple. MS give ATI and NV a practically free reign over their cards and drivers, Linux is completely down to creating the drivers, but obviously MS gets the priority seeing as thats 97% of their market. Finally, Apple really does come in last because there is a single machine that they sell which can do these cards, and of that fraction of a percentage, even fewer are going to get a better GPU, and even fewer than that are going to get something which isnt a BTO.

I dont see this situation changing over night, but getting the newest GPU to the mac quicker is the first step they need to be taking. Forget about crossfire a minute, it still isnt really worth it as far as Im concerned. But having a 4870 2 months after the PC release would be a dream come true. Even 4 months would be competitive.... ish...
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#15 QuantaCat

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 09:46 AM

That and no offence, bobbob, but it sounds to me like you just want to complain about apple and drivers, instead of seeing/discussing the benefits (or lack thereof) of this card.

True, more drivers are always better, but since this card would be cheaper, if I remember correctly, it would make a better alternative. SLI or Crossfire doesn't provide double performance either, so it *sounds* relatively similar in function, only cheaper, and space saving, maybe even heat/power saving.
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#16 Greg Grant

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 02:20 PM

I figured it wasn't a stretch the 4870 would come to the Mac. I'm hoping it brings more Core Image performance ownage to the Mac as it'd be reason enough for me to ditch my 8800 GT. At least we're seeing a little more graphics card action these days than in the past. Bro now works at an Apple store, EMPLOYEE DISCOUNT!
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#17 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 04:26 PM

I'm guessing that they'll charge $400 for the 4870, and $300 for the 50



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#18 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 07:24 PM

bump,

any news?
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#19 The Mail Man

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 07:40 PM

View PostQuantaCat, on August 31st 2008, 11:46 AM, said:

That and no offence, bobbob, but it sounds to me like you just want to complain about apple and drivers, instead of seeing/discussing the benefits (or lack thereof) of this card.

True, more drivers are always better, but since this card would be cheaper, if I remember correctly, it would make a better alternative. SLI or Crossfire doesn't provide double performance either, so it *sounds* relatively similar in function, only cheaper, and space saving, maybe even heat/power saving.
Um there are some VERY large advantages to crossfire and SLI. Iv used a Spider platform and its not for the weak at heart. Don't forget a lot of games can now use a second GPU for physics. Also your right about Crossfire not providing double the performance. However they are reaching for that goal with every driver release.

Also Snake I would be VERY surprised if the 4870 or 4850 would be released with similar costs to the PC "versions". Apple jacks up the costs like crazy. And Ill tell you a secrete. The only difference between a PC and a Mac video card is the ROM. Us Mac users from was back used to flash PC cards so we could use the more latest GPUs for cheap.....hint hint.  ;)
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#20 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 07:42 PM

View PostThe Mail Man, on October 8th 2008, 09:40 PM, said:

Also Snake I would be VERY surprised if the 4870 or 4850 would be released with similar costs to the PC "versions". Apple jacks up the costs like crazy. And Ill tell you a secrete. The only difference between a PC and a Mac video card is the ROM. Us Mac users from was back used to flash PC cards so we could use the more latest GPUs for cheap.....hint hint.  ;)

I didn't think they would be the same price hence me saying that the 4850 would be $300, $100 more then the PC version at the time of posting (i remember checking for that post)
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