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Does Diablo suck?


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#1 charmin

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 12:14 PM

In an effort not to derail another thread, I shall start a new one.

What's good about Diablo? Let's start by telling me what genre it's actually supposed to be.
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#2 the Battle Cat

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 12:26 PM

Click And Slash genre.
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#3 DaveyJJ

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 12:29 PM

View Postcharmin, on August 13th 2008, 02:14 PM, said:

In an effort not to derail another thread, I shall start a new one.

What's good about Diablo? Let's start by telling me what genre it's actually supposed to be.

Diablo? Diablo II? Diablo II with Lord of Destruction expansion? Let's assume DII w/LoD.

What genre? I think the technical name for it is now "hack and slash" (or HnS). Certainly a simple concept of game ... move, click baddies repeatedly until dead, gather loot, run around, click on more baddies, gather more loot, run back to town, trade/buy stuff/heal, return, move, click baddies ....... Some basic RPG elements in all of these style games (skill trees, paths, classes, equipment or activity restrictions, experience points, sometime some visual character customization) etc. Lots of games in this genre ... Dungeon Seige series, Titan Quest, etc al. I'd even argue that WoW, yes a MMORPG, is nothing more than a glorified HnS (or grind by some accounts).

But you know all this.

What's good about it? Hard to say, different for everyone and every gamer. Like a nice Cline Syrah (off the old vines, not the mixed swill in the LCBO stores). Some love it, some hate it.

Personally, the whole "get the best loot you can" or "try another character class or skill tree" was what kept me coming back over, and over, and over. And will get me to buy the next installment the day it comes out without reservation or guilt. Yes, the whole repetitive thing might get annoying and that's why I couldn't stand WoW, so I wonder why I loved the D series so much?

What makes others like it or loathe it, I wonder?

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#4 charmin

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 01:10 PM

I'd have put it in the same genre, but I think it's a poor example. A HnS game should be about action, and things kicking off, and beating the crap out of hordes of enemies.

Diablo (II, LoD) throws pitiful enemies at you that fold like paper, and then the odd frustratingly damaging enemy. All of these are microscopic, so you can't appreciate the hacking and slashing. They're also largely exactly the same except for some palette rotation, which reeks of "cheap". You're constantly juggling loot and repairing equipment, which smells of RPG-style micromanagement, but without a plot or any sense of character development (beyond the odd special move, which in themselves are less than impressive).

I'd say that any of the Dynasty Warriors games is a much better example of Hack n Slash than Diablo is. More hacking and slashing, less juggling.
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#5 alldaveallen

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 03:06 PM

View PostDaveyJJ, on August 13th 2008, 11:29 AM, said:

What's good about it? Hard to say, different for everyone and every gamer. Like a nice Cline Syrah (off the old vines, not the mixed swill in the LCBO stores). Some love it, some hate it.

What makes others like it or loathe it, I wonder?

Well, I still think it's pretty great, and although I have imposed a sort of computer-game Lent on myself of late, I still would have to say that in terms of hours, it's the game I have played the most in my entire life.

For me, it's A) They made it for Mac, and B) The multiple character options.  The one issue I have is that it is kind of a boring cakewalk until you get to Nightmare level. I'm no uber-player but I play through all of Normal level on "/Players 8" just to make it a bit more challenging and to allow me to level up enough to be able to handle Nightmare level. And then it's more of a fight.  I am REALLY hoping that Blizzard will not have the skill trees set up in D3 the way they are set up in D2 (meaning that all of the skills are unlocked by level 30, and you spend the next 69 levels beefing up maybe 2-4 core skills).  It would be great if there were new skills that opened up at, say. level 50, level 70, whatever. (I think the "Median" mod offers something like this, which is genius). It might make the mid-game more interesting AND cut down on cookie-cutter builds.  I am also hoping that more random events in the game will make it more interesting at the upper level in terms of story. Being able to get more stuff the longer you play is not a good enough reason to keep playing. More story!  Yay, story!

Personally, I am REALLY looking forward to D3. I think the art, colors, characters all look amazing, and I hope that the Blizzard folks are going to take the opportunity to put in everything they've learned from D2's 8 years into it.

#6 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 03:55 PM

Guys, charmin doesnt play anything but tetris. Don't feed the troll. And if you still have a left over dinner you need to get rid of, please do it on the IRC channel. We need more people in there!

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#7 Eric5h5

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 05:14 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on August 13th 2008, 05:55 PM, said:

Guys, charmin doesnt play anything but tetris.

That's not true at all.  He also plays TMFPPG!

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#8 the Battle Cat

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 05:33 PM

View PostEric5h5, on August 13th 2008, 04:14 PM, said:

That's not true at all.  He also plays TMFPPG!

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Now there is a click and slash if I ever saw one.  Well, if the slash was like from a rocket fin or sumptin.  But still it's exactly like Tetris only you don't shoot things and you make them spin and nothing actually falls to the ground and explodes in gibs and they are different shapes but won't spewing bleeding meat on your screen.  And stuff.
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#9 Eric5h5

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 08:58 PM

Hmmm...when you put it that way, the resemblance is rather startling.  Think that's a good enough case that I can sue the Tetris guy's pants off?

Anyway, Diablo's actual genre (and why does it even matter?) is Rogue-like.  Except in real-time.  Although to be perfectly honest, if I were stuck on a desert island and someone said "You get to pick either Moria or Diablo to play for the next several years until you're rescued", I'd pick Moria.  If the choice was between Diablo and Tetris, though, I'd take Diablo.

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#10 badger2d

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:14 AM

You know, I really don't like tomatoes.

Somebody tell me what you like about tomatoes, and then I'll explain why you're wrong!  It'll be the bestest conversation ever!!!

#11 cleansanchez

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 01:53 AM

Yawn. Troll thread. Somebody please lock or else the idiot will get flamed mercilessly.

#12 Magnum

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 10:47 AM

Wait, this forum has trolls? *Equips troll killing gear*
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#13 charmin

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:13 PM

Awful lot of Diablo fanbois in here.
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#14 the Battle Cat

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:34 PM

Wait, this forum has fanbois? *Equips fanboi killing gear*
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#15 badger2d

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 05:27 PM

tBC wins the thread.

Well played, sir!  :lol:

#16 Dark_Archon

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 06:16 PM

View Postcharmin, on August 14th 2008, 02:13 PM, said:

Awful lot of Diablo fanbois in here.

I'm going to have to agree with cleansanchez here. They aren't being "fanbois," you are trolling. You still haven't said anything more meaningful than "Diablo 2 sucks." I'm not defending Diablo 2, but if you want people to have a real conversation, you need to actually say something meaningful. Yes, we know you don't like Diablo 2. No, we don't particularly care that you don't like it. Yes, we would like you to point out what exactly is wrong with it as well as what is wrong with Starcraft (you mentioned your dislike of it in the Diablo 3 thread).
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#17 Mr. Selvetarm

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 07:35 PM

View PostDark_Archon, on August 14th 2008, 08:16 PM, said:

I'm going to have to agree with cleansanchez here. They aren't being "fanbois," you are trolling. You still haven't said anything more meaningful than "Diablo 2 sucks." I'm not defending Diablo 2, but if you want people to have a real conversation, you need to actually say something meaningful. Yes, we know you don't like Diablo 2. No, we don't particularly care that you don't like it. Yes, we would like you to point out what exactly is wrong with it as well as what is wrong with Starcraft (you mentioned your dislike of it in the Diablo 3 thread).

I agree. :nods:

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#18 cleansanchez

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 08:46 PM

I'll happily participate in a debate on D1, D2 and SC1, since I'll admit the last several years have been wasted/spent playing the darn thing (D2) but the OP was obviously and deliberately inflammatory. His 3rd post in this thread also fanned the flames.

There's plenty of games I don't like but I don't start threads about them as it's just asking to get my head kicked in.

I hated Duke Nukem and all subsequent incarnations. So I didn't buy any of them. Problem solved. But there's no point in starting a thread about games I don't like. Except if I wanted to sit back and stick my tongue out at others in a bizarre anti-social way because I know I'm safely hidden behind my monitor and my keyboard.

Speaking of which. I bet Charmin has one hand on his keyboard as I type this.

#19 charmin

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 03:45 AM

View PostDark_Archon, on August 15th 2008, 01:16 AM, said:

They aren't being "fanbois," you are trolling. You still haven't said anything more meaningful than "Diablo 2 sucks."

I went some way towards describing my dislike of the game in post #4 - you may have seen it as you frantically scrolled down the page to spew flame. Since then, I was unaware anybody had made any real retort.

(Eric said he'd prefer it to Tetris if he had to play it for years at a time. Somebody else briefly said they liked it before listing reasons why they didn't. The rest of the posts have been random or personal attacks - waiting for a constructive argument.)
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#20 Janichsan

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 05:32 AM

It's hard to argue about something which is basically just a matter of personal taste. Sure: Diablo (neither 1 nor 2) is not flawless. The plot is thin, the game simplistic, the graphics (by today standards) cheap (they weren't when Diablo was released).

However, the fact that Diablo is a hugely successful game and still played years after it's release (something you cannot say about lots of allegedly better games) should be a hint that Blizzard must have made a lot of things right. (Unless you want to imply that you are the only sensible person and all other people who enjoyed Diablo are stupid idiots.)

What mainly made Diablo so fascinating for most people was exactly that: the simplicity of it. You run around, slay bazillions of monsters, collect experience points and neat new items to beef up your character without having to spend to too much thought. So, not unlike what made mindless shooters like Doom or Quake so successful.

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