[CromsLaughter]

Hey everyone, just joined these forums after looking around, and I think this is the right forum for this question.

I got a MacBook Pro for college a year ago (was lumped in with tuition). It's great for what I do (Maya 8.5, Lightwave 9.3 and Photoshop CS3). I tried BootCamp when it was in beta with a friends copy of Windows Vista, and it ran fine at first, but picked up some quirks along the way, and eventually I removed it because I need my Mac to stay in working order. I was just wondering are the newer more stable versions of BootCamp available for OSX Tiger, or do I have to upgrade to Leopard to get those? and does Vista run better with the newest drivers? It's come down to either me getting doing bootcamp again, or buying a seperate refurbed Emachine desktop for gaming. Also, the HDD space on the mac is getting scarce, I know I need 30 GB to partition, is it possible to put games (for windows) on a portable HDD, or do I need to clear up some space on the mac drive and make a bigger (50-60 GB) partition.

also wonder what kind of graphic powerhouse games could I run on my MBP (Age of Conan comes to mind)
2.33 ghx Core 2 Duo
2 gb ram
ATI Radeon X1600

Lengthy for the first post I know, but I appreciate any help you guys can offer.

oh forgot to mention, the MBP runs hot, and as I recall it ran even hotter in Vista, any advice for counteracting the heat? laptop pad, SMC Fan control doesn't do much in OSX . . . icepack on my lap (lol).

[Janichsan]

First of all: welcome aboard here.

To answer (at least some of) your questions: BootCamp for Tiger is not available anymore, nor would it work if anyone of us would still have it around. The BootCamp beta version for Tiger was time-limited and stopped working when Leopard was released. More precisely, existing BootCamp partitions still work, but you can neither create new ones nor change existing ones. Leopard is the only way to get BootCamp nowadays.

The newer BootCamp drivers have improved support for Vista, so you could expect it to work better.

That your MBP runs hot is – unfortunately – normal. The Intel CPUs are also usable as hotplates in case of emergency. That it ran even hotter under Vista is – as far as I know – a result of the not very optimal energy management in Apple's BootCamp drivers back then. This has improved, though. However, to keep your MBP cool (or at least cooler) I recommend some kind of stand for it, so that the lower surface is air-cooled. The simplest solution would be something like a small block put underneath the hinge, more sophisticated would be a dedicated stand for laptops with cooling fans.

[QuantaCat]

Didn't know about the beta running out of time thing, but I've run a windows partition since the latest beta version of Bootcamp, and it still runs. I don't think there is a difference in speed or usability to newer bootcamps, and "foreign" drivers work perfectly for MBP graphic cards.

[Quicksilver]

Janichsan, on August 6th 2008, 02:16 AM, said:

The newer BootCamp drivers have improved support for Vista, so you could expect it to work better.

That your MBP runs hot is – unfortunately – normal. The Intel CPUs are also usable as hotplates in case of emergency. That it ran even hotter under Vista is – as far as I know – a result of the not very optimal energy management in Apple's BootCamp drivers back then. This has improved, though. However, to keep your MBP cool (or at least cooler) I recommend some kind of stand for it, so that the lower surface is air-cooled. The simplest solution would be something like a small block put underneath the hinge, more sophisticated would be a dedicated stand for laptops with cooling fans.

Actually, 95% of the original Leopard BootCamp drivers were the same as the "beta" ones. There's been an update since then, but it concentrated on bug-fixes. Apple hasn't done a whole lot (read: anything) to provide more than the most basic support for its machines in Windows. There is no real power management functionality, which is why your machine runs hot, and in the case of my MBP, gets about an hour and a half on a fully charged battery.

On the other hand, Vista is much improved. I still wouldn't use it for gaming, but that's only because I don't have power to burn.

Finally, if you're looking for a stand that'll help your MacBook Pro look (and run) cooler, check out the mStand. I actually reviewed it a little while back. A bit pricey, but it's the best out there. Linkage.

[teflon]

have you got any hints about fan control in windows? they spin down way too quick which leaves the GPU running pretty hot (70ºC for extended periods of time), and its starting to annoy me slightly..

CromsLaughter, on August 6th 2008, 06:07 AM, said:

Also, the HDD space on the mac is getting scarce, I know I need 30 GB to partition, is it possible to put games (for windows) on a portable HDD,

yup, you can do this. Ive got an external drive at around 70Gb FAT32 partition for this purpose, as it means I can have around 10 games installed or more!

[QuantaCat]

Why do you *need* 30 Gb? I've got my 11Gb partition running just fine with xp. (and I install games on my mac partition over macdrive)

[CromsLaughter]

Thanks for all the help guys.

@Janichan -- Couldn't you theoretically "trick" bootcamp for tiger into working by just, rolling the clock on the Mac back? I had to do that once already (it was right after the beta ended) to remove my first partition when it got "quirky".

@Quicksilver -- Didn't know Leopards bootcamp was pretty much the same as Leopards, thanks for the FYI. When I do a partition again I'm trying to get XP for it, but if that doesn't pan out it's good to know Vista is better nowadays. And thanks for the link to the review, looks like a god product, (and made me realize just how bad my posture is when I'm using my laptop!).

@Teflon -- thanks for confirming the games on an external HDD, good to know I don't have to have a "revolving door of games" like last time.

@Quantacat -- I was under the impression that the partition needed to be 30 GB, my friend helped me out last time so maybe that was his saying "you need X because I know you want Y," and not Mac saying it needed that for a minimum partition.

with any luck within a week (two at the most, depends on how quick I find the softwares for a good price) I'll be playin' CS:Source and my other favorite Windows games (coughAoCcough) on this thing.

[Janichsan]

CromsLaughter, on August 6th 2008, 07:54 PM, said:

@Janichan -- Couldn't you theoretically "trick" bootcamp for tiger into working by just, rolling the clock on the Mac back? I had to do that once already (it was right after the beta ended) to remove my first partition when it got "quirky".

I wouldn't rule that out completely, but I'm not sure. The biggest problem would probably be actually obtaining the BootCamp beta, since Apple withdrew it. Should you already have it, there's probably some chance.

[Quicksilver]

The "roll back" method still works as far as I know. If you tossed your old BootCamp 1.3 disc and need another copy, they're widely available on Bittorrent.

I wouldn't get too excited about AoC--you're just above the minimum spec when it comes to GPU power.

[teflon]

CromsLaughter, on August 6th 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

@Quantacat -- I was under the impression that the partition needed to be 30 GB, my friend helped me out last time so maybe that was his saying "you need X because I know you want Y," and not Mac saying it needed that for a minimum partition.

nope, it needs to be just big enough to hold the OS and enough space for a decent sized swap file.
I find myself very constricted by 30Gb even so, as I have steam installed (where the games end up wherever you installed steam in the first place), and also like to have one or two games on my internal drive so that Im not constantly tied to an external. right now Ive got GoW and one or two Sam & Max episodes on there.

32Gb is also the maximum size for a FAT32 partition when installing windows (though it actually supports bigger somehow).

Vista, however, needs NTFS and is also a very chunky OS (no it doesnt have a nice personality either), so youll probably want at least the 30Gb there.

[CromsLaughter]

I'll be getting XP this time around (thank god). The version of bootcamp have is either 1.3 or 1.4, and yeah, rollback works. should be getting it on monday in the mail. I'm probably going to partition 20 gb and then buy an external HDD this weekend (need one for school related things anyways). thanks again for all the help. CS:Source (and Day of Defeat), here I come!

as for AoC, it's too bad, but probably for the better, the more I read about the current state of the game, the less appealing it sounds, I know I've got Guild Wars and SWG kicking around here somewere.

[teflon]

if youve got the orange box installed (and other games via steam), just beware that its quite a space hog. Admittedly theres a lot of shared assets, but TF2 alone takes up around 8Gb, and then the other games add incrementally to that. In total I think its around 12Gb install size for the Orange box in total.

If you put the steam install on the external HDD, then all the games will go there and you should have plenty of space.

[CromsLaughter]

thanks for the heads up teflon. I was planning on putting the steam games on the external. All I have for steam at the moment is CS and DoD, but Steam offers so many games these days that I'm sure I'll wind up downloading a few. (that and all the game updates and patches add up, like an MMO's).

[teflon]

just make sure that the steam app itself is installed to the external drive, cos thats where all the games will go.

[Quicksilver]

teflon, on August 7th 2008, 02:27 PM, said:

if youve got the orange box installed (and other games via steam), just beware that its quite a space hog. Admittedly theres a lot of shared assets, but TF2 alone takes up around 8Gb, and then the other games add incrementally to that. In total I think its around 12Gb install size for the Orange box in total.

If you put the steam install on the external HDD, then all the games will go there and you should have plenty of space.

TF2 by itself is actually 5-6 GB. Maybe you downloaded a few mods/3rd-party maps here and there--those things ad up unbelievably fast.

On a related note, the cool thing about the Orange Box is that it has one centralized engine (Source), and you only need one copy of the engine, saving you a lot of hard drive space. As long as you keep one Source-powered game in your Steam account, all subsequent Source-powered game downloads will really fly, since you're just filling in the miscellaneous assets.

[CromsLaughter]

Hows is TF2 on PC anyways? I rented the Orange Box for xbox 360 when it came out, but at the time no one was playing TF2 on xbox live. The other games on it were amazing though.

[QuantaCat]

I'd play Source for the various mods. I like Empires, Zombie Panic, Stalker (or whatever its called), Dystopia and of course, last but not least, Pirates vs Vikings vs Knights II.