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Colin McRae: can't get rid of deadzone


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#1 crispyking

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 02:13 PM

I'm trying the demo and I can't seem to get a linear steering response for my analogue controller.    I've set the deadzone to zero but the steering response still seems to be quite dampened around the center.

Everything looks fine in the CMR calibration screen and verified that changes in the settings (e.g. the "saturation") do take effect when racing.      I can make the "deadzone" smaller, but it's always still there.

Can anyone verify if the full version also has this problem?

-- Chris

#2 The Animaster

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 03:47 AM

View Postcrispyking, on June 7th 2008, 03:13 AM, said:

I'm trying the demo and I can't seem to get a linear steering response for my analogue controller.    I've set the deadzone to zero but the steering response still seems to be quite dampened around the center.

Everything looks fine in the CMR calibration screen and verified that changes in the settings (e.g. the "saturation") do take effect when racing.      I can make the "deadzone" smaller, but it's always still there.

Can anyone verify if the full version also has this problem?

-- Chris

I've always been a bit paranoid about this. I'll give it a go, but wouldn't you need a nice, long stretch of speedway to test this on? What controller are you using? I've got a G25 steering wheel and 2 rumblepad IIs.
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#3 The Animaster

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 03:57 AM

View PostThe Animaster, on June 7th 2008, 04:47 PM, said:

I've always been a bit paranoid about this. I'll give it a go, but wouldn't you need a nice, long stretch of speedway to test this on? What controller are you using? I've got a G25 steering wheel and 2 rumblepad IIs.



Just tested it. Crap. I wish you were wrong, but on my G25 steering wheel there is a pretty noticeable deadzone afterall! Even with the settings turned down to ZERO deadzone. That sucks.

On the otherhand, my RumblePad II seems to respond with a very small nudge of the analog stick, indicating that the deadzone seems to be nullified correctly.

Both of my controllers are fairly new -- just bought within the last 2 months. Of course I use my G25 a lot more but I can't imagine that it'd be "wearing out" so quickly? Also there's no indication of 'wear' as in the controller configuration screen the G25 registers slight movement properly as it does in the Input Calibrator app as well.

I have the complete version of Colin McRae Rally mac.


edit: just sent Feral a message about this via their website. Awaiting a response now.
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#4 crispyking

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 11:17 AM

I'd say if your configuration screen is properly registering the small movements of the G25, then there's nothing wrong with the wheel and the game itself is imposing the deadzone.    With the rumblepad, I'd guess that the deadzone is still there but because the total throw of the stick is so small, you don't notice it.

Man, sucks that the full version also has that problem.     Dunno what's the point of having a deadzone adjustment if you can't get rid of it.    A proper rack-and-pinion steering linkage is strictly linear: it has a constant ratio of steering wheel angle to front wheel angle, and this is especially critical for small movements of the wheel where you do the many subtle corrections that keep you hugging the road.  

As it is, it seems like CMR is still basically a console game meant to be played with buttons.

-- Chris

#5 edddeduck

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 05:44 AM

View Postcrispyking, on June 8th 2008, 10:17 AM, said:

As it is, it seems like CMR is still basically a console game meant to be played with buttons.

Actually it was designed to use Analogue stick inputs, the small dead-zone is built into all versions of the game (as far as I can tell) and is designed so you have a small wobble factor built in so you don't constantly get your car going, left, right, left, right, tree...

A steering wheel you have to turn the wheel about 600 degree's or at least 360 on a steering wheel to get the full range of movement from the rack and pinion steering. In the game you have about 4 cm or less on an analogue pad to do the same, the small bit of float was I assume put in because most gamers might move slightly when they are don't mean to instead of having a game that is 100% unforgiving leading to people crashing on the straights you leave a small but of dead-zone to cover these unwanted tiny movements. The float is very small and on a new pad in the office it is barely noticeable.

The G25 is a different issue as this is a special wheel and to get the full rotation support a patch might be required.

I can have a look into this when we have a few spare moments but the I can confirm the input is linear and although their might be a small dead-zone on a new pad it is very small. If you have a big dead zone check on the calibration screen if very small movements register on the screen, if they don't this means you pad is not sending any movement data and the dead zone is in the pad not the game. Let me know your results via PM if you think you have any more problems.

Edwin

#6 crispyking

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 10:26 AM

View Postedddeduck, on June 9th 2008, 04:44 AM, said:

Actually it was designed to use Analogue stick inputs, the small dead-zone is built into all versions of the game (as far as I can tell) and is designed so you have a small wobble factor built in so you don't constantly get your car going, left, right, left, right, tree...

A steering wheel you have to turn the wheel about 600 degree's or at least 360 on a steering wheel to get the full range of movement from the rack and pinion steering. In the game you have about 4 cm or less on an analogue pad to do the same, the small bit of float was I assume put in because most gamers might move slightly when they are don't mean to instead of having a game that is 100% unforgiving leading to people crashing on the straights you leave a small but of dead-zone to cover these unwanted tiny movements. The float is very small and on a new pad in the office it is barely noticeable.

The G25 is a different issue as this is a special wheel and to get the full rotation support a patch might be required.

I can have a look into this when we have a few spare moments but the I can confirm the input is linear and although their might be a small dead-zone on a new pad it is very small. If you have a big dead zone check on the calibration screen if very small movements register on the screen, if they don't this means you pad is not sending any movement data and the dead zone is in the pad not the game. Let me know your results via PM if you think you have any more problems.

Edwin

Hi Edwin,
    Please, could you put in an option to remove the deadzone entirely?     The small deadzone is quite noticeable to me.   It is essentially simulating a loose steering linkage and makes small continuous steering corrections impossible without resorting to quick jabs (which is basically the same as stabbing at digital buttons).    I find it maddening and quite unlike the experience of driving a real car.

#7 gregorz

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 11:05 AM

I have a smiliar problem with my logitech momo FF wheel.

View Postedddeduck, on June 9th 2008, 01:44 PM, said:

The float is very small and on a new pad in the office it is barely noticeable.

Well, on my steering wheel with dead-zone calibratet to null, it's about 7 degrees left and right before anything happens in the game. This is almost 1inch of movement and therefore quite noticeable for me. Also it seems like the "in-game" steering wheel reacts really slow to the input, even when i set the steering to "light". In practice this means i have to turn the wheel much earlier than i did when i was still pressing buttons on the keyboard. Is there anything I can do to change this situation?
--gregor

#8 The Animaster

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:11 PM

View Postgregorz, on June 10th 2008, 12:05 AM, said:

I have a smiliar problem with my logitech momo FF wheel.
Well, on my steering wheel with dead-zone calibratet to null, it's about 7 degrees left and right before anything happens in the game. This is almost 1inch of movement and therefore quite noticeable for me. Also it seems like the "in-game" steering wheel reacts really slow to the input, even when i set the steering to "light". In practice this means i have to turn the wheel much earlier than i did when i was still pressing buttons on the keyboard. Is there anything I can do to change this situation?
--gregor

Quit the game, unplug the wheel, plug the wheel back in, and then start the game.

I've had a similar problem with my G25. Apparently, if I start my mac up with the G25 plugged in I loose a lot of FFB and steering response in the wheel. I don't recall noticing it in the other games I have though. In anycase, reseating your USB from the wheel puts the FFB back and makes it work properly. Apple Input Sprockets to blame?

Let us know if this helps.
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#9 charmin

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 02:00 AM

View PostThe Animaster, on June 11th 2008, 03:11 AM, said:

Apple Input Sprockets to blame?

They still use input sprockets in OSX? I thought HID replaced that?
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#10 edddeduck

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 02:17 AM

View PostThe Animaster, on June 10th 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

Apple Input Sprockets to blame?

They removed Input Sprockets when OS X was created so you have to write mostly your own code now for things like calibration. FFB is a bit of a strange one as it has not gotten as much love in the OS updates as other areas of the OS. We do listen to all feature requests and problems and log them internally so when patches are discussed we have a list of requests (& bugs) from end users in forums as well as support.

Edwin

#11 The Animaster

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 06:15 AM

OH. My bad. Well it was good to get that all cleared up! I had thought OS X still used the built-in Input Sprockets... but if it is as you say it is, then well... that just makes me yearn for those 'missing'  features even more! :((

I gotta read up more on HID vs Input Sprockets. Thanks for pointing that out charmin.

And cheers for keeping us looking forward to more Edwin :D ! It's great to know that it's really possible. Woot!

Hmmm.. but this brings into light an issue with Colin McRae -- as I mentioned above, the wheel doesn't work properly when it starts up with the computer (and unplugging/replugging it makes it do its job). Any ideas on this one?
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