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Spore's lousy stinking DRM scheme ...


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#41 Atticus

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 09:44 AM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on May 9th 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

BTW: I'm very pleased by the way you guys have been moderating yourselves!  That is really cool to see.

Wait until they're more drunk......

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#42 Nail

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 12:42 PM

gee, I don't think I've been sober since the late '60s

:rotfl:

#43 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 08:03 PM

FYI, EA is apparently backing down on the 10-day authentication thing for both Spore and Mass Effect.
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#44 Tesseract

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 09:43 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on May 10th 2008, 12:59 AM, said:

It is debate about politics and religion that is not allowed.
That's actually what I was referring to. The conversation was starting to veer into questioning the validity of the anti-piracy stance, and the associated political, ethical and religious debates.

#45 charmin

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 12:50 AM

View Postnobody, on May 10th 2008, 03:03 AM, said:

FYI, EA is apparently backing down on the 10-day authentication thing for both Spore and Mass Effect.

Epic win.

Clearly, EA are reading this topic.
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#46 Janichsan

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 02:41 AM

That sounds far more reasonable. Especially considering this:

Quote

The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. And if you are like me, always losing discs, this will be a huge benefit.

Nevertheless, this probably means that your copy of Spore will be tied to your EA.com account for ever and ever. Something I have criticised earlier for other games.

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#47 Bernie

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 04:04 AM

View Postedddeduck, on May 8th 2008, 06:15 AM, said:

View PostBernie, on May 8th 2008, 05:27 AM, said:

I'm no lawyer or judge, but more and more it is seeming like copy-protection should be illegal because it assumes guilt, not innocence.
By the same logic car alarms should be illegal because they assume guilt as well, along with house alarms...
Nice try, but wrong. Copy-protection is about preventing everyone including the owner who has the legal right to make backups from making copies no matter what the use. Car and house alarms are about detecting people who do not have authorize access. Alarms don't prevent owners from doing anything.

At least in America, you can lose rights when you've been convicted of a crime. For example, you lose the right to vote if you are convicted of a felony (Some Info). So, copy-protection has taken your legal right to make backups away from you without convicting you of a crime on a court of law.

Alarms don't take any rights away from you.

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#48 Eric5h5

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 04:06 AM

View Postnobody, on May 9th 2008, 10:03 PM, said:

FYI, EA is apparently backing down on the 10-day authentication thing for both

Well, that's better.  There's still the Cider problem, but possibly they'll improve that.

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#49 QuantaCat

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 06:59 AM

View PostTesseract, on May 10th 2008, 05:43 AM, said:

That's actually what I was referring to. The conversation was starting to veer into questioning the validity of the anti-piracy stance, and the associated political, ethical and religious debates.

Yes, that was what I meant. But whoohoo for backing down on DRM.
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#50 DavidM

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 12:57 AM

View PostJanichsan, on May 8th 2008, 06:06 AM, said:

Just an example why net based DRM sucks.

This is my biggest complaint about on-line DRM. Your software becomes useless if the company shuts down the servers or goes out of business. I understand the need to protect the product, but it should not be at the expense of the customer.

I have many old DOS games. I can still play them (as long as the media is still good) and I don't lose the manual with its look-up copy protection. But, at least this requires my personal responsibility to care for what I bought. If my game wants to phone home and nobody is home, I'm out of luck and my game.

Also, if anybody is wondering why I might want to play hi-res CGA graphics, DOS games, its a personal issue I am working on. :P

#51 teflon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 03:05 AM

the way that online DRM should be handled if a company is to go bust is to unlock its products. So, MS should have released one last update to the software that would fake the presence of a server on its own, thus effectively unlocking the content to play on an unlimited number of machines.

if Valve were to suddenly go bust, this is what Id expect from them too. But, of course, they wont, so theyre pretty safe.
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#52 Tesseract

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 05:44 AM

View Postteflon, on May 11th 2008, 07:05 PM, said:

if Valve were to suddenly go bust, this is what Id expect from them too.
They couldn't do that. It would be viewed as giving away an asset that could have been be used to pay the creditors.

#53 teflon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 06:29 AM

but theyre not really giving anything away... its a modification to the Steam software (though, of course, the servers will then be down, so youd better have those games installed/backed up). And seeing as youre not paying for the content delivery system (or the delivery itself), that system cant exactly be used to pay creditors.
I dont see how all the finite transactions that have gone through steam can be seen as an asset to creditors were valve to go bust. they cant charge again.
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#54 charmin

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 08:02 AM

But the delivery system, and the brand, both have value - even if the customer isn't directly paying for it. I expect the creditors would expect Steam to be sold off to someone else.
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#55 Dark_Archon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 09:00 AM

Supposedly, you don't need the disc in the drive to play Mass Effect. If the Spore DRM is the same, and you don't need the disc in the drive to play it, I think phoning home every 10 days isn't too big a deal. Sure, it still kinda sucks, but as DRM goes, it isn't that bad.
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#56 bobbob

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 09:21 AM

View PostDark_Archon, on May 11th 2008, 08:00 AM, said:

Supposedly, you don't need the disc in the drive to play Mass Effect. If the Spore DRM is the same, and you don't need the disc in the drive to play it, I think phoning home every 10 days isn't too big a deal. Sure, it still kinda sucks, but as DRM goes, it isn't that bad.
They've reneged and it only has to authenticate once. This still sucks, as they probably have problems removing installations from your record. Like anyone expected EA to learn something from 2k's mistakes. Pfft. They can't be in the lead of their industry if they aren't crossing the streams ahead of everyone else.

#57 Dark_Archon

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 09:27 AM

So do you need the disc in the drive to play it?
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#58 Janichsan

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:37 AM

View PostDark_Archon, on May 11th 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

So do you need the disc in the drive to play it?
No.

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#59 Sparky9292

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 02:32 AM

View PostDaveyJJ, on May 8th 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

And I also agree with Edwin that taking something without paying for it is the definition of "stealing."

*sigh*  :glare:  Can we all use the correct definitions here?  I'm quoting from the OSX dictionary application:

Piracy - the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea.
Stealing - take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it
Copyright - the exclusive legal right, given to an originator or an assignee to print, publish, perform, film, or record literary, artistic, or musical material, and to authorize others to do the same.
Infringement - actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.)

Edwin is correct in saying that taking something without paying for it is stealing.  The problem is that you are not taking the bits, you are copying the bits.  Unless I break into a building, and take the hard drives, it's NOT stealing.

If we keep calling copyright infringement silly things like Stealing and Piracy, then I want to say things like:
  • Don't STEAL software you didn't pay for.
  • Don't RAPE software you didn't pay for! That's bad!
  • Don't copy software without paying. That's MOLESTING the software!
I know it doesn't sound sexy or dramatic, but please say:

Bif is playing a game he didn't pay for -- I believe this is wrong because he is infringing on the original game author's copyright.  I guess people use STEAL/RAPE/DESTROY/MOLEST/PIRATE because it's easier and more dramatic. *SIGH*.

Now. don't get me started on the absolute stupidity that the DMCA law brought.  The DMCA tells me that I can't remove the CD check on software that I PAID FOR...   Wrong wrong wrong! :bleedingeyes:

#60 Janichsan

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 02:58 AM

View PostSparky9292, on May 13th 2008, 10:32 AM, said:

I'm quoting from the OSX dictionary application:

Piracy - the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea.
Either you're using an old version or you are omitting something, because for me this article reads this:

Quote

piracy |ˈpʌɪrəsi|
noun
the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea.
• a similar practice in other contexts, esp. hijacking : air piracy.
• the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work : software piracy.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via medieval Latin from Greek pirateia, from peiratēs (see pirate ).

Quote

Stealing - take (another person's property) without permission or legal right...

...The problem is that you are not taking the bits, you are copying the bits.
The definition of "taking" does at no point require the fact that you do not leave the "original" behind. I guess we can agree that you can "steal" an idea without erasing the idea's originator's mind.

We can continue this pointless discussion about semantics for ever and ever, this won't change anything about the fact that copying a game – however you call is – is a criminal act. Period.

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