132 replies to this topic

[Smoke_Tetsu]

A new crossover came out recently... Crossover XI... Crossover Games is no longer a separate entity it's just Crossover XI for everyone.  WINEskin has the new Crossover XI engine available to download too. Also WINEHQ's WINE has lef beta\RC stages and is now just 1.4 and is available now in WINEskin. I need to do some tests with games. For the few games I've been running in it (in RC stages I haven't tested the new "stable release yet") it's been fine but it's been having mouse issues with Clive Barker's Jericho which I've been having to turn off mouse warp override to partially fix.

[rampancy]

Smoke_Tetsu, on 07 March 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

A new crossover came out recently... Crossover XI... Crossover Games is no longer a separate entity it's just Crossover XI for everyone.  WINEskin has the new Crossover XI engine available to download too. Also WINEHQ's WINE has lef beta\RC stages and is now just 1.4 and is available now in WINEskin. I need to do some tests with games. For the few games I've been running in it (in RC stages I haven't tested the new "stable release yet") it's been fine but it's been having mouse issues with Clive Barker's Jericho which I've been having to turn off mouse warp override to partially fix.

Bump.

I wanted to add that WINE 1.4 has been a real revelation for me in terms of getting Windows games to work on OS X. Games which were previously unplayable like Fallout and Fallout 2 both work, as do other previously unplayable games like Shogo: MAD and Blood 2. Caesar III used to be able to be run only in an 800 x 600 virtual desktop (or else it would freak out and crash hard); now, you can play it at 1024 x 768 at full screen. And Giants: Citizen Kabuto now works at resolutions beyond the 800 x 600 default (previously it would also freak out and crash hard). Wineskin may be free (and it's an excellent distribution of WINE) but I'd still like to suggest people look into CrossOver, as way of further supporting the WINE developers and the hard work that they do.

WINE is now up to the 1.5.x series (it's at 1.5.3, I think) and under WINE 1.5 I've gotten Thief and Thief 2 to run in Wineskin; sometime I'll later I'll see if I can get Descent 3 or System Shock 2 working.

[Frost]

Decided to try CrossOver's 14 day trial. So far, not so good.

Unreal Gold and Unreal Tournament both FREAK OUT if I try to run in full screen, and have horrendous framerates in a window. Fallout 1 & 2 also freak the hell out full screen, and have weird mouselag in a window. Crusader: No Remorse and No Regret have problems too. :/

Have had a bit better luck with wineskin ports from Porting Team... but so far, Parallels 7 in coherence or full screen demolishes both in compatibility and performance. Guess I'll be sticking with that for now even though an OSX app would sure be preferable.

[mindnoise]

Yes I found that, too XCG just does not cut it for games and I tried to like it for 3 years. Either Bootcamp or Parallels.
Honestly before burning $60 for XCG better buy Windows 7.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

Sorry you've had bad luck but that experience is hardly representative of WINE or Crossover as a whole. I've had the reverse experience where they have demolished the performance of virtualization here. I've also never had Unreal Tournament or Unreal Gold ever freak out in full screen using wineskin for example.

What's XCG? No, don't spend $60 on Crossover Games, you can use the engines in Wineskin for free.

[Eric5h5]

Frost, on 16 September 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

Unreal Gold and Unreal Tournament both FREAK OUT if I try to run in full screen, and have horrendous framerates in a window.

I haven't tried Unreal itself, but I played Deus Ex, which uses the Unreal engine, a few months ago and it ran flawlessly.  Usually it's a good idea to go to Manage Bottle, then the Control Panel tab, then run Wine Configuration. Then find and add the relevant executable, go to the graphics tab, and uncheck "allow the window manager to decorate the windows" and "allow the window manager to control the windows".  I wish those were unchecked by default, since I frequently end up having to do that.  If that doesn't do it, try reading the compatibility pages on the Crossover site for tips about registry settings.

Smoke_Tetsu, on 16 September 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

What's XCG? No, don't spend $60 on Crossover Games, you can use the engines in Wineskin for free.

Some of the money goes to WINE development in general, though, so don't be a cheapskate.    Plus I generally prefer the way Crossover works, although I have used Wineskin a few times where the engine in Crossover wouldn't quite work right.

--Eric

[Smoke_Tetsu]

I prefer the way wineskin works because the way it works it's like your games get sandboxed from each other. I've had software I've installed into crossover hose the entire installation until I deleted the bottles. It's not just about not wanting to spend the money on Crossover as it is not liking the way it works for me. I just don't like having all my wrapped games running under one umbrella like that due to stuff like that happening.Truth be told though if all games had native robust ports I wouldn't use WINE at all.

Also, with Unreal you can't just install it and run it you have to get the patches, such as the unofficial Old Unreal patches. Also, updated renderers are available and again I highly recommend those. Even for Deus Ex.

[Eric5h5]

Actually sharing the same "drive" is the reason I prefer it, since it's more convenient for some settings (and space usage), and I've never had any problems with it getting hosed.  But if I did, I'd just use Time Machine to restore the bottle to the most recent usable state.

--Eric

[Smoke_Tetsu]

To each their own I suppose. For me there's just not enough space advantage or any other advantage to warrant switching everything over to that at this point. Besides, the latest versions of Crossover WINE engines started inheriting issues with monolith games that mainstream WINE builds did with translucency in the weapons. So I need to keep those sequestered in their own sandbox with pre CX11 versions of the Crossover WINE engines. For me wineskin suits that purpose perfectly.

[Janichsan]

Frost, on 16 September 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

Decided to try CrossOver's 14 day trial. So far, not so good.

Unreal Gold and Unreal Tournament both FREAK OUT if I try to run in full screen, and have horrendous framerates in a window. Fallout 1 & 2 also freak the hell out full screen, and have weird mouselag in a window. Crusader: No Remorse and No Regret have problems too. :/

Have had a bit better luck with wineskin ports from Porting Team... but so far, Parallels 7 in coherence or full screen demolishes both in compatibility and performance. Guess I'll be sticking with that for now even though an OSX app would sure be preferable.

Yeah, CrossOver unfortunately inherited several regressions more recent versions of Wine introduced for Mac, including the mouse problems and partly worse performance.

Which is why have begun to migrate many of the games I had installed with CrossOver to separate WineSkin wrappers (more often than not, simply copying the drive_c folder and the reg files to the WineSkin wrapper works well). That way, I can have the games running with versions of Wine or the CrossOver engines that are most suitable for them. Fallout 1 and UT '99 are two of the games which I migrated.

[rampancy]

Janichsan, on 17 September 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

Yeah, CrossOver unfortunately inherited several regressions more recent versions of Wine introduced for Mac, including the mouse problems and partly worse performance.

Which is why have begun to migrate many of the games I had installed with CrossOver to separate WineSkin wrappers (more often than not, simply copying the drive_c folder and the reg files to the WineSkin wrapper works well). That way, I can have the games running with versions of Wine or the CrossOver engines that are most suitable for them. Fallout 1 and UT '99 are two of the games which I migrated.

There is, unfortunately, a major bug with running many games in WINE (be it Wineskin or CrossOver) on Lion; unfortunately, a lot of the games I covered in my Crossing Over series (which isn't dead!) simply break in Lion. The common symptom is massive screen corruption with redrawing errors, with audio still largely working. In some cases, (like Battle Realms) the in-game menus and screen will only partially render correctly, with the rest being just garbled static. In some cases, setting ddr=gdi in the registry using regedit *may* solve the problem. Usually, the problems are cleared up when running the game with WINE set to use a virtual desktop. It's not ideal, but your games will work. Codeweavers knows it's a major problem, and it's one of the bugs they're working on right now. I think it has something to do with some fundamental changes that Lion introduced in its implementation of OpenGL which essentially is at the root of the problem. I've been working on a comprehensive review and discussion of Wineskin for running Windows games in OS X through WINE, but from my write-up, I do have one other suggestion that's helped in part to resolve problems with some games: in Wineskin, there's an option for the version of WINE used within a Wineskin wrapper to use your system's external installation of X11 (which I have installed as Xquartz) for window drawing, as opposed to the Wineskin wrapper's own built-in X11 server. This has worked to get Fallout, Fallout 2, and Divine Divinity working on my Mac in Lion.

As for mouse acceleration issues, yes, I did observe some issues in CrossOver, but a lot of them seemed to have been ironed out with the CX11 release; both Unreal and UT99 work well on my current system with CX11.2.2 (YMMV of course). One thing to try would be to use a Wineskin wrapper set to use your system's X11 install, as I suggested above.

With respect to performance, I haven't really noticed much of a change from CX10.x to CX11.x (YMMV, again); most of the changes were in compatibility (like Shogo: MAD working in CX11 vs. CX10). From what I've understood, CrossOver is a fork of the stable WINE 1.4.x codebase, while currently WINE has moved to the unstable 1.5.x series. That doesn't preclude of course elements from 1.5.x being patched into the CrossOver codebase, but again, from what I understand, if there have been any regressions or issues in CrossOver, they'd most likely not be coming from the latest versions of WINE.

Anyway, that being said, Retro City Rampage works perfectly in CrossOver 11.2.2 on my GMA 950 MacBook running 10.6.8 - I did have to run it in a virtual desktop and turn off some fancy effects to keep the frame rate up, but it does work in full screen and with all of the "fancy" retro effects turned on. Later tonight I'll install it on my MacBook Air running 10.7.5 to see how it does; I'm pretty sure it'll work. Just the same, if you have the opportunity to pick up RCR, do so; it's one of the most entertaining and hilarious games I've played this year.

[doh123]

rampancy, on 10 October 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Usually, the problems are cleared up when running the game with WINE set to use a virtual desktop. It's not ideal, but your games will work.

thats actually not a new issue.. theres been many games that will only run right in a virtual desktop.  This is why I have the Override->Fullscreen option in Wineskin.  It runs X11 in a fullscreen mode, but it runs Wine in a virtual desktop, faked out so it appears to be fullscreen.  It looks like a fullscreen to you, but the games will work.

rampancy, on 10 October 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I've been working on a comprehensive review and discussion of Wineskin for running Windows games in OS X through WINE, but from my write-up, I do have one other suggestion that's helped in part to resolve problems with some games: in Wineskin, there's an option for the version of WINE used within a Wineskin wrapper to use your system's external installation of X11 (which I have installed as Xquartz) for window drawing, as opposed to the Wineskin wrapper's own built-in X11 server. This has worked to get Fallout, Fallout 2, and Divine Divinity working on my Mac in Lion.

I've had some problems with WineskinX11 in the past... heck I had to learn what X11 even was to start using it  :-P  The current version is quite good though... its very very close to whats in XQuartz 2.7.4... really shouldn't be any major issues with it anymore (for now).  I put in the option to be able to use XQuartz mainly just in case a major problem ever crept up and I didn't have a fix out yet and XQuartz did... or for any other unknown reason an issue might creep up.  Some people seem to like using it for everything to get around "problems" that they seem to have that I can never reproduce... its hard to fix issues when it always works right for me.

[Smoke_Tetsu]

I never had to use a system installed XQuartz here myself and the included one in winekskin mostly always worked right for me too... except for of course that short period which it didn't work with 10.8.2 and was quickly patched.

Also I've hardly had to use a virtual desktop for any of my games except FEAR3 which does not want to run in fullscreen with WINE so I had to "fake" it with a virtual desktop there. With a couple of other games I did a fullscreen override for a slight improvement but not a virtual desktop.

Admittedly I don't play every single game everyone else plays though.

BTW, for those games sensitive to mouse issues rawinput hacked WINE engines used to work well for me and then the latest WINE engines that have that stuff baked in so to speak.